Should the Pats bring Brandon Lloyd back?

[Brady_to_Moss]

pat will regret this i think when he is gone

 

[Brady6]

Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?

For what it's worth, here's Reiss's take on it from this week's chat:

Mike Reiss's is posting in here now too? Come on guys

 

[Joker]

C'mon what? You don't believe it?

 

[Brady6]

Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?

C'mon what? You don't believe it?

No I don't believe it. It would violate 99.9% of non compete clauses that companies like ESPN require their writers to sign. Not to mention is would be a conflict of interest.

 

[supafly]

but if the pats are resigning welker and are looking at someone like wallace, then it's already over

Do you honestly see this as a possibility in the slightest?

It wouldn't seem like much of a Belichick-type move to me. I don't even know if we'll end up seeing a mega-million dollar deal outside of our own on defense in free agency, let alone an additional offensive player at a position that demands precision, timing, chemistry with the QB and other skill players, the ability to read/react to the defensive formations, running the entire route tree, and exceptional knowledge of the playbook on every level imaginable. I couldn't possibly imagine Belichick gambling with everything that would come with a massive outside deal at that particular position.

Assuming they bring Welker back, we'd currently have Brady, Mankins, Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez signed to enormous multi-million dollar deals. That would be half of the offensive players.

Unless you're talking about a 5-6 million dollar aav WR, then I'd agree, but I would bet anything that there's zero chance of a WR coming in who is going to demand 10 million+.

 

[Brady6]

Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?

Do you honestly see this as a possibility in the slightest?

It wouldn't seem like much of a Belichick-type move to me. I don't even know if we'll end up seeing a mega-million dollar deal outside of our own on defense in free agency, let alone an additional offensive player at a position that demands precision, timing, chemistry with the QB and other skill players, the ability to read/react to the defensive formations, running the entire route tree, and exceptional knowledge of the playbook on every level imaginable. I couldn't possibly imagine Belichick gambling with everything that would come with a massive outside deal at that particular position.

Assuming they bring Welker back, we'd currently have Brady, Mankins, Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez signed to enormous multi-million dollar deals. That would be half of the offensive players.

Unless you're talking about a 5-6 million dollar aav WR, then I'd agree, but I would bet anything that there's zero chance of a WR coming in who is going to demand 10 million+.

The WR position seems to be a position that teams are no longer as eager to spend big dollars in because of all the recent busts so for that reason I wouldn't rule out Wallace only commanding 5-6 per. He is coming off poor season and the draft is very deep at WR. If you cut Lloyd you are only increasing the pay by a few million replacing him with Wallace. Then draft a WR in the 3rd unless Austin slipped to us in the 1st.

 

[supafly]

Mike Reiss's is posting in here now too? Come on guys

First of all, what makes you think Reiss is posting on here? Because he stated his opinions in the weekly chat? I'm confused.

Secondly, as mentioned Tom Curran goes under the moniker of prentice mccray, as he's been on here for years. That's 100 percent fact. No violations are rules are being broken.

Shalize Manza Young has been on here numerous times, and goes under the moniker SMY, so that's two. Curran and SMY don't usually post too much, but they do pop in from time to time, and patsfans.com has been mentioned in articles before too.

Greg Bedard is tied in to SMY working for the same publication, and that's the one you're questioning it seems. His opinions were strictly on the McCourty to safety statement that he and SMY made over the summer, so unless someone pretended to be Bedard just for the fact that they felt that strongly about Devin McCourty moving to safety and Belichick's feelings about the lack of depth at CB, it's him too.

That's 3 reporters for sure.

I'm not sure about why you think Reiss is on here though?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Do you honestly see this as a possibility in the slightest?

It wouldn't seem like much of a Belichick-type move to me. I don't even know if we'll end up seeing a mega-million dollar deal outside of our own on defense in free agency, let alone an additional offensive player at a position that demands precision, timing, chemistry with the QB and other skill players, the ability to read/react to the defensive formations, running the entire route tree, and exceptional knowledge of the playbook on every level imaginable. I couldn't possibly imagine Belichick gambling with everything that would come with a massive outside deal at that particular position.

Assuming they bring Welker back, we'd currently have Brady, Mankins, Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez signed to enormous multi-million dollar deals. That would be half of the offensive players.

Unless you're talking about a 5-6 million dollar aav WR, then I'd agree, but I would bet anything that there's zero chance of a WR coming in who is going to demand 10 million+.

you do have to admit..brady only has what...3 season left? Once he is gone..we start from scratch..we have 3 years to win one IMO..we need to take risks

 

[supafly]

The WR position seems to be a position that teams are no longer as eager to spend big dollars in because of all the recent busts so for that reason I wouldn't rule out Wallace only commanding 5-6 per.

Yeah, no--that isn't going to happen.

Wallace reportedly is looking for something at least in the ballpark of VJax's 11 million aav deal signed just last offseason at 5/55. For what it's worth, he started at 12 million+ aav, and has accepted the fact that he probably won't see that.

The Steelers were willing to go as high as 9 million aav, but Wallace wouldn't budge last summer and held out of training camp, so Pittsburgh gave the money to Antonio Brown instead. That deal was for 5/40 or 8 million aav, and was considered a bargain by many.

All of Wallace, Bowe, and Jennings are going to command close to double digit aav's, with one or more going over and one probably going less at about 9 million aav. They are easily the top 3 WR's on the market. There is a significant dropoff between them and even Wes Welker, who will likely get something in the range of 8 million or so aav (just due to his age and "slot" argument, but the guaranteed money will be competitive to make up for the lessened aav).

Then you'd have Hartline and Amendola, who will likely be right around the 6-7 million aav range, but none of them will be commanding the "5-6" million that you speak of (although one of Hartline/Amendola may get to the 6 million range).

Jacksonville just gave Laurant Robinson a 5/32.5 contract last free agency period, which is 6.5 million aav, so anyone who realistically thinks Wallace is going to accept 5-6 million aav is completely out of their mind. No offense to you on any level.

 

[supafly]

you do have to admit..brady only has what...3 season left? Once he is gone..we start from scratch..we have 3 years to win one IMO..we need to take risks

Brady should have 5 seasons left, which would only take him to 39-40. All of Elway, Montana, Young, Favre, Marino etc played into their late 30's and early 40's. Brady just signed a 5 yr deal and has not shown any signs of slowing down. I'm not sure why you'd assume only 3 yrs?

I think Belichick has been "taking risks." He paid Brady, Mankins, Wilfork, Gronk, Hernandez, and Mayo extremely high multi-million dollar deals recently, and now possibly Welker too. He moved up TWICE in the first round last year, something no one ever expected. On top of that he took 2 DE/OLB (ILB) conversion prospects in Jones and Hightower, something he'd never done before that high due to lack of measurables and overall gamble.

He's spent just about every recent top 2 round pick, instead of trading down and out to acquire future picks which had been his norm.

He traded away a 4th round pick on a huge gamble in Talib for basically what may equal a one-year rental for a shot at solidifying the secondary for a deep playoff run.

He's brought in big name problem child players in Haynesworth, Ocho, Talib, Ellis, etc in hopes of utilizing their talent and ignoring past concerns for a win-now effort for vet leadership and talent.

Belichick has always done his best to look towards the future and keep the current team competitive, but he isn't going to risk bringing in an outsider at a position that demands so much. It's too much of a gamble. Mike Wallace may look like a superstar in Pittsburgh's backyard offense, but once the new OC Haley was brought in last year he tailed off due to complexity of the system. He's also held out and quit on his team. Does that sound like a Belichick type player to you? Do you honestly think that we're going to risk the future and go away from the winning formula that has kept the team so competitive by signing a guy like Mike Wallace to a 50 million dollar contract? Belichick didn't even feel comfortable enough giving Julius Peppers mega millions, and he knew what he was getting with him, at least it was much, much less of a gamble anyway.

If we're lucky we'll see a mega-million dollar deal on defense, which is the side of the ball that is spent way, way less as only 2 other teams in the entire NFL spend less than we do. That's also the side of the ball that needs the most attention. I actually don't think we see a huge mega deal on defense either, I think we're more likely to see a couple of 6-7 million dollar aav deals instead, which is still very significant. I think there are at least 2-3 positions that will be addressed, so he won't blow the whole thing on one player. Just my opinion though. The offense is fine, and continues to set records. We can address the WR2 both in the draft (for cheap), and also through a couple/few additions of mid/lower level FA, just like last year.

 

[zipster9]

you do have to admit..brady only has what...3 season left? Once he is gone..we start from scratch..we have 3 years to win one IMO..we need to take risks

Cut him. There is 2m dead money.

He wont run after catch. he is over 30yrs old. He does not stretch the field.

I would cut him or trade him if possible for a 4th or 5th rounder. Then, spend 5m/yr to sign BrianHartline away from Phins.

Hartline is 26yrs old, a bit taller, and can stretch the field. He also runs after catch...

Hartline, Welker, Ballard, Gronk, Hern. Then have DonteStallworth as an emergency WR, and possibly a rookie WR from draft.

 

[supafly]

Cut him. There is 2m dead money.

He wont run after catch. he is over 30yrs old. He does not stretch the field.

I would cut him or trade him if possible for a 4th or 5th rounder. Then, spend 5m/yr to sign BrianHartline away from Phins.

Hartline is 26yrs old, a bit taller, and can stretch the field. He also runs after catch...

Hartline, Welker, Ballard, Gronk, Hern. Then have DonteStallworth as an emergency WR, and possibly a rookie WR from draft.

My concern is that Hartline will command more than 5 million per year and that another team will overspend for him on a 4-5 yr deal. Then I just don't think it's worth it. You'd probably have to give Hartline a 4/25 contract just to be in the ballpark of what others will offer him.

It's certainly something to consider though. I think we'd have to explore the middle tier of FA signings to try and replace the production, while hoping to upgrade in YACs etc. I also worry that we're still going to have to pay someone the same amount of money or higher anyway.

There are both pros and cons, that's why I answered "maybe." My worry is that we're not going to get the same kind of consistency even if that's not at the level everyone wants in YACs and downfield ability. Unless maybe they'd make a trade for someone...but then who would we trade due to the lack of picks etc? That probably isn't much of an option. I just don't see many other viable choices.

 

[supafly]

It's interesting that only 1 out of every 6.2 or so posters definitely don't want him back. I expected it to be a bit higher than that.

I think a major concern is that there aren't many realistic options, and out of those few options the money is going to be more. It's definitely a gamble of sorts.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I think a major concern is that there aren't many realistic options, and out of those few options the money is going to be more. It's definitely a gamble of sorts.

Yup..which is why it could haunt them

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

He's also held out and quit on his team. Does that sound like a Belichick type player to you?

Mankins held out...Moss quit on the raiders and yet the pats still brought him in...And some could say Dillion quit on the bengals and we signed him. So i don't put that much stock into that at all. Haynesworth quit on the redskins..we signed him...

 

[supafly]

Mankins held out...Moss quit on the raiders and yet the pats still brought him in...And some could say Dillion quit on the bengals and we signed him. So i don't put that much stock into that at all. Haynesworth quit on the redskins..we signed him...

None of those players were given a 10-11 million dollar per year mega deal, so that's what you aren't taking into account. Sure, Mankins held out, but was one of our own as a 1st rd pick, and proven in the system here from 2005 on. He's one of the rare players that can get away with that kind of behavior and still remain a Patriot and you know that.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to hold out hope that Mike Wallace is going to come here, then by all means, be my guest. I certainly don't mean to act like a know-it-all, but I don't think there's even a remote possibility of that happening.

Belichick is not going to pay someone outside of the system 10+ million dollars a year, especially Mike Wallace. There's just nothing that would cover our asses in case it didn't work out. He MAY do it for guys like Fitzgerald and C.Johnson, but even then I'm not sure, considering that he'd be re-signing Welker. One thing people seem to be forgetting is that Wes Welker would be our version of "Mike Wallace," if we re-signed him to a multi year deal for bigger money. Not in skillset, but for cap purposes.

Belichick has a winning formula that heavily involves cap management, and that's one of the reasons we've been so competitive and successful since the 2000's. Think about it---with all of the production and durability, not to mention knowledge of our own system that Welker brings, Belichick is hesitant to even re-sign HIM...and that's for "reasonable" money in terms of what Wallace will get.

 

[Brady6]

Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?

First of all, what makes you think Reiss is posting on here? Because he stated his opinions in the weekly chat? I'm confused.

Secondly, as mentioned Tom Curran goes under the moniker of prentice mccray, as he's been on here for years. That's 100 percent fact. No violations are rules are being broken.

Shalize Manza Young has been on here numerous times, and goes under the moniker SMY, so that's two. Curran and SMY don't usually post too much, but they do pop in from time to time, and patsfans.com has been mentioned in articles before too.

Greg Bedard is tied in to SMY working for the same publication, and that's the one you're questioning it seems. His opinions were strictly on the McCourty to safety statement that he and SMY made over the summer, so unless someone pretended to be Bedard just for the fact that they felt that strongly about Devin McCourty moving to safety and Belichick's feelings about the lack of depth at CB, it's him too.

That's 3 reporters for sure.

I'm not sure about why you think Reiss is on here though?

I thought it was a quote from his post. I just think someone is doing it to gain merit in what they post. That is my opinion but whatever don't care that much either way.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

If you want to hold out hope that Mike Wallace is going to come here, then by all means, be my guest. I certainly don't mean to act like a know-it-all, but I don't think there's even a remote possibility of that happening.

I am not holding out hope..hell i don't even want him. but i am saying that the pats have to take risks this offseason..weather to to over pay or get jennngs, trade for a harvin and pay hm, overpay for reed ect

Once brady is gone..i think BB is on his way out as well IMO

 

[ALP]

Lets say this: what are the chances that a reciever (any WR in the league) comes in here and can learn the system in one offseason? Lloyd did it pretty well, Ocho couldn't learn anything.....and when was the last time a rookie WR produced for us?

My point being, eve. If we signa Wallace, or a Fitz, or draft the best WRs in the draft, they may all be another Ochocinco

Bring back Lloyd, no matter how the Wes situation results...and use him properly, which the staff really did not

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Lets say this: what are the chances that a reciever (any WR in the league) comes in here and can learn the system in one offseason? Lloyd did it pretty well, Ocho couldn't learn anything.....and when was the last time a rookie WR produced for us?

My point being, eve. If we signa Wallace, or a Fitz, or draft the best WRs in the draft, they may all be another Ochocinco

Bring back Lloyd, no matter how the Wes situation results...and use him properly, which the staff really did not

Sorry....but fitzgerald wouldn't be another ochostinko...