Scouting Report: Max Valles, DE/OLB

[midwestpatsfan]

If you need a distraction from Reviswatch or any of the other tough moves that are happening or will happen, check out my report on Max Valles.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015/03/scouting-report-max-valles-deolb.html#more-33413

 

[mayoclinic]

Thanks for that.

I find myself generally agreeing with the vast majority of your reports (Eddie Goldman is an exception). I think you have a very good eye, and generally hone in on the key points. In the case of Valles, it is his versatility as a "chess" piece and movement in space that are so intriguing. Danielle Hunter, Bud Dupree and Dante Fowler are the only other guys I see with similar versatility, and they will all go in the top 25-30 picks. I think Valles is very raw, but really intriguing. I initially gave him a 2nd round grade, then downgraded it to a 3rd based on his athletic times. I'd be interested in him anytime from 96 on, and he's one of my preferred day 3 targets.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

I agree with everything you just said. I am targeting that comp pick in the 3rd or that early fourth. The guys you listed are all very high on my big board as well, but Valles is a nice option if they miss out on those guys(most likely will, except Hunter). Coaches and fans will need to be patient, but the raw tools are there and have the potential to become very exciting to watch.
I have promised to give Goldman a second look as well, and we shall see if that changes my view because I do seem to be the down on him more than others, but that is okay too.

Other random musings:
I have watched and really like La'el Collins. I think he could be a great fit for the Patriots both short and long term. Not sure if I will do a full write up on him, but he is good.

Another guy I have come around to is Michael Bennett from Ohio State. I watched him early this season and did not like, but his games at the end of the season are much more impressive. He kind of falls into size purgatory for me, so I am not sure where/if I would draft him for the Patriots, but he is a guy I have warmed up to.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Thanks for the nice words as well, Mayo. That means a lot. I know there are several active and knowledgeable guys on this board and I am glad I can contribute to the cause.

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree with everything you just said. I am targeting that comp pick in the 3rd or that early fourth. The guys you listed are all very high on my big board as well, but Valles is a nice option if they miss out on those guys(most likely will, except Hunter). Coaches and fans will need to be patient, but the raw tools are there and have the potential to become very exciting to watch.
I have promised to give Goldman a second look as well, and we shall see if that changes my view because I do seem to be the down on him more than others, but that is okay too.

Right now Valles' stock seems day 3, but you never know. Any time after 96 would work for me. I have him tentatively pencilled in with our own 4th, assuming it isn't traded. I think he offers much more upside than Michael Buchanan.

I'm ok with Goldman in the 1st if he's available, but I'm more on the Marcus Hardison bandwagon, plus adding a couple of low-cost veteran run stuffers. Alan Branch shouldn't cost too much to keep, and Kenrick Ellis is intriguing. I'd also be fine with Jared Odrick or Randy Starks, if the price were right.

Other random musings:
I have watched and really like La'el Collins. I think he could be a great fit for the Patriots both short and long term. Not sure if I will do a full write up on him, but he is good.

Another guy I have come around to is Michael Bennett from Ohio State. I watched him early this season and did not like, but his games at the end of the season are much more impressive. He kind of falls into size purgatory for me, so I am not sure where/if I would draft him for the Patriots, but he is a guy I have warmed up to.

Grid likes him a lot too. Both of you like him more than I do. I think he's a solid player and will have a good career, but I'm not overwhelmed, and I don't see the fit for the Pats. Hardison is bigger, far more versatile, and more explosive, IMO.

 

[manxman2601]

I watched Bennett recently and came away impressed. He's not a wow player for me but I was surprised and intrigued by how well he held up against the run considering his size. Starting to think there is better value in rounds 3-7 at DT than I once did.

As for Valles, I have two main problems. Firstly, what does he offer that Buchanan doesn't? Secondly, this system is complex enough. Do We really want to expose sophomores to it?

 

[mayoclinic]

As for Valles, I have two main problems. Firstly, what does he offer that Buchanan doesn't? Secondly, this system is complex enough. Do We really want to expose sophomores to it?

I think the Buchanan point is a very, very good one. Right now Buchanan has 2 years left on his rookie deal and has done absolutely nothing in his first 2 years. I think he's a completely unknown quantity. He could break out and be a really good rotational player, or he could be closer to Jake Bequette. He certainly has the length and measurables, which were always intriguing, especially his 6.91 3-cone. I don't think you can look at Valles' measurables and say that he will be better than Buchanan. But I have a sense from his tape that he will be. Maybe it's just wishful thinking. But he seems much more comfortable on the line than Buchanan. His combat technique is raw, but he's willing.

As for exposing sophomores, I'm not so sure. I think it would depend on the individual evaluation of the player and his ability to grasp schemes and adapt more than his college experience level. But I agree that that would be a factor to check out very carefully.

 

[manxman2601]

I think the Buchanan point is a very, very good one. Right now Buchanan has 2 years left on his rookie deal and has done absolutely nothing in his first 2 years. I think he's a completely unknown quantity. He could break out and be a really good rotational player, or he could be closer to Jake Bequette. He certainly has the length and measurables, which were always intriguing, especially his 6.91 3-cone. I don't think you can look at Valles' measurables and say that he will be better than Buchanan. But I have a sense from his tape that he will be. Maybe it's just wishful thinking. But he seems much more comfortable on the line than Buchanan. His combat technique is raw, but he's willing.

As for exposing sophomores, I'm not so sure. I think it would depend on the individual evaluation of the player and his ability to grasp schemes and adapt more than his college experience level. But I agree that that would be a factor to check out very carefully.

I'm not opposed to drafting Valles at all, I just don't necessarily see the marginal gain in doing so. It's just a philosophical thing, I've not really been interested in EDGE players at all this year except for Shane Ray and Bud Dupree - I just don't see it as a something the roster needs although I recognise and respect that you do. I have been partially persuaded on Hunter though. Would be happy with him in the 2nd round.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not opposed to drafting Valles at all, I just don't necessarily see the marginal gain in doing so. It's just a philosophical thing, I've not really been interested in EDGE players at all this year except for Shane Ray and Bud Dupree - I just don't see it as a something the roster needs although I recognise and respect that you do. I have been partially persuaded on Hunter though. Would be happy with him in the 2nd round.

If Ayers is re-signed, then I don't think EDGE is a major need. If he isn't, then I think it is. I'm ok with Hunter in the 2nd, or with Valles from 96 on. I don't see Ray as a fit, but understand your point of view.

I agree completely that if you view a player as only a marginal gain over someone already on your roster, it's probably not a worthwhile draft investment.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

I agree, Ayers is the key. If he is resigned, the need goes down quite a bit. Ninkovich is no spring chicken and his long term replacement needs to be factored in sooner rather than later.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree, Ayers is the key. If he is resigned, the need goes down quite a bit. Ninkovich is no spring chicken and his long term replacement needs to be factored in sooner rather than later.

I don't see Valles as a Ninkovich replacement personally. I just don't think he'd ever be good enough against the run. Situational pass-rusher/SLB is where I see him.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

I don't see Valles as a Ninkovich replacement personally. I just don't think he'd ever be good enough against the run. Situational pass-rusher/SLB is where I see him.

I don't necessarily think that either, I was just responding to Mayo saying he was an important piece and would like him to resign.