Schefter: Logan Mankins to report, sign tender on Tuesday

[reflexblue]

1.) Pollard came through on a blitz, and he went to the right side of the offensive line. His getting through had nothing to do with Mankins.

2.) Mankins was drafted in 2005. Brady has never had more than 26 sacks with Mankins as his LG, meaning he was never higher than 14 on the sack totals list.

3.) Last year, coming back from the injury, Brady was sacked only 16 times all season. This year, he's already been sacked 12 times, putting him on pace for 27 sacks, which would be higher than any year with Mankins on the line.

Your right about pollard coming from the right side. But there have been years since '05 that TB has been one of the most beat up QB's in the league. There were many games were he was hit and or knocked down a dozen plus times. I'm not saying mankins isn't very good, i'm saying that even with him in the line there isn't going to be the drastic improvement that many people think. I also don't believe you sack figures, i know you have an agenda when it comes to mankins.

TB's is the 9th most sacked QB at 231

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_active.htm

 

[SteveBsFan]

3.) Last year, coming back from the injury, Brady was sacked only 16 times all season. This year, he's already been sacked 12 times, putting him on pace for 27 sacks, which would be higher than any year with Mankins on the line.

I'm too lazy to look up stats, but what about hurries as well? I notice TB running around like a crazy person a lot more than usual this season. He ran for his life a few times vs the Vikings.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'm too lazy to look up stats, but what about hurries as well? I notice TB running around like a crazy person a lot more than usual this season. He ran for his life a few times vs the Vikings.

But I like it when Brady runs crazy.

YouTube - Tom Brady to Brandon Tate 65-yard TD

 

[Deus Irae]

Your right about pollard coming from the right side. But there have been years since '05 that TB has been one of the most beat up QB's in the league. There were many games were he was hit and or knocked down a dozen plus times. I'm not saying mankins isn't very good, i'm saying that even with him in the line there isn't going to be the drastic improvement that many people think

Mankins never missed a game, so we can't look to sub games, unlike with Neal. All we have is this year, and Connolly has been a huge step down from what Mankins has been in the recent past. Now, it's possible that the time off will prevent Mankins from getting back up to snuff at all this season. However, I'll take 80% of Mankins over 100% of Connolly and, judging from the Patriots' benching of Connolly not so long ago, my guess is that the team would, too (assuming there are not 'spite' issues on either side).

Time will tell, one way or another.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm too lazy to look up stats, but what about hurries as well? I notice TB running around like a crazy person a lot more than usual this season. He ran for his life a few times vs the Vikings.

Hurries and hits are more misleading with Brady than with a lot of other QBs. Brady stays 'alive' in the pocket for longer than pretty much any other QB. A lot of the hits he takes, he takes because of his willingness to stand in the pocket the extra time for plays to develop.

Brady helps his line with sacks because he's good at avoiding players who flat-out beat their man and get through right off the snap, but he doesn't always do it favors with hits and hurries.

Maybe someone like BOR, or Unoriginal, or the like, could pull up some data on this, like time spent in the pocket or something along those lines. I don't have any that's readily accessible, because I don't know of anyone who actually tracks it in a meaningful way. They might have a better grasp on where to go for such information.

 

[shmessy]

Think about last year and how many times TB was hurried knocked down or sacked. It seems like there are a lot of people that think the pats O-line would be like the Great wall of China with LM back. The last few years it wasn't that great. And BB may not even play him, why would he disrupt the chemistry the line has developed by automatically inserting LM.

I'm with Reflexblue.

That OL was spectacular in the Minnesota game after it's one bad game of the season out in SD against statistically the NFL's #1 defense.

A lot of folks don't seem to recall the last 1,000 yard rusher the Patriots have had was the year before he arrived.

He ain't the Messiah some folks are making him out to be. Plus there are two questions that folks are forgetting here:

1) Is he even close to game shape?

2) Is he going to be an attitude problem?

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Mankins never missed a game, so we can't look to sub games, unlike with Neal. All we have is this year, and Connolly has been a huge step down from what Mankins has been in the recent past. Now, it's possible that the time off will prevent Mankins from getting back up to snuff at all this season. However, I'll take 80% of Mankins over 100% of Connolly and, judging from the Patriots' benching of Connolly not so long ago, my guess is that the team would, too (assuming there are not 'spite' issues on either side).

Time will tell, one way or another.

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if fans appreciate what a physical beating these guys take every week and what a number 2007 did on that team. There was a good reason BB didn't make the vets report to camp in 08 right away and even with that, nagging injuries persisted.

Nobody's saying Logan's going to come in and save the day. Nobody's saying our present OL isn't playing well. What people ARE saying is that we're happy to have a smart, tough, rested mutha like Mankins back in the fold. If for no other reason, at the very least , depth. Knowledgable depth. I'll take it, thank you:rocker:

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm with Reflexblue.

That OL was spectacular in the Minnesota game after it's one bad game of the season out in SD against statistically the NFL's #1 defense.

A lot of folks don't seem to recall the last 1,000 yard rusher the Patriots have had was the year before he arrived.

He ain't the Messiah some folks are making him out to be. Plus there are two questions that folks are forgetting here:

1) Is he even close to game shape?

2) Is he going to be an attitude problem?

Connolly and Vollmer (and Crumpler at TE) were very uneven with their blocking, particularly early on.

 

[reflexblue]

I'm too lazy to look up stats, but what about hurries as well? I notice TB running around like a crazy person a lot more than usual this season. He ran for his life a few times vs the Vikings.

You think this year is bad? If you can go back and look at last year it was brutal, TB was running for his life half the time. His ribs were broken along with a finger.. i think. He didn't get that from playing patty cake with Giseal

 

[Keegs]

I'm with Reflexblue.

That OL was spectacular in the Minnesota game after it's one bad game of the season out in SD against statistically the NFL's #1 defense.

A lot of folks don't seem to recall the last 1,000 yard rusher the Patriots have had was the year before he arrived.

He ain't the Messiah some folks are making him out to be. Plus there are two questions that folks are forgetting here:

1) Is he even close to game shape?

2) Is he going to be an attitude problem?

i also don't recall him ever playing great in the playoffs.

Besides the jags game in 07 where Jax dropped all players in coverage every play and let Brady pick them apart, i seem to remember protection problems.

 

[shmessy]

1.) Pollard came through on a blitz, and he went to the right side of the offensive line. His getting through had nothing to do with Mankins.

2.) Mankins was drafted in 2005. Brady has never had more than 26 sacks with Mankins as his LG, meaning he was never higher than 14 on the sack totals list.

3.) Last year, coming back from the injury, Brady was sacked only 16 times all season. This year, he's already been sacked 12 times, putting him on pace for 27 sacks, which would be higher than any year with Mankins on the line.

1) 27 sacks being ONE higher than any year with Mankins on the line - - - yeah, that one sack is worth $4-5 million per year more than Connolly.

2) When was the last time the Patriots had a 1,000 yard rusher with Mankins on the OL? Oh yeah, never!

It's hilarious how people are making it out that the Patriots line was anywhere near the level of Shanahan's Denver lines - - when the truth is that for the past 6 years it has been one of the two or three weakest parts of the team.

Whether or not Mankins is worth $35 million over 5 years (and I don't think he is to the Patriots) the fact remains that this young and inexperienced team has not lost a step in going 6-1 even with BJGE and Rudy as the RB's.

 

[shmessy]

But I like it when Brady runs crazy.

YouTube - Tom Brady to Brandon Tate 65-yard TD

Anyone watching that replay can clearly see the OL did a GRAT job on that play - - Brady had PLENTY of time, the receivers were just covered. After 3 seconds, it was GRONK ON THE RIGHT SIDE who lost his man who came in on Brady and made him scramble at that point.

 

[Deus Irae]

1) 27 sacks being ONE higher than any year with Mankins on the line - - - yeah, that one sack is worth $4-5 million per year more than Connolly.

AGAIN.... 16 sacks last year. On pace for 27 this year. That would be an 11 sack difference.

2) When was the last time the Patriots had a 1,000 yard rusher with Mankins on the OL? Oh yeah, never!

When did it become Mankins fault that Dillon was injured in 2005, that the Patriots adopted a share-the-load system in 2006, or that the Patriots went to an offense completely slanted towards the passing game in 2007?

It's hilarious how people are making it out that the Patriots line was anywhere near the level of Shanahan's Denver lines - - when the truth is that for the past 6 years it has been one of the two or three weakest parts of the team.

Whether or not Mankins is worth $35 million over 5 years (and I don't think he is to the Patriots) the fact remains that this young and inexperienced team has not lost a step in going 6-1 even with BJGE and Rudy as the RB's.

The Patriots have been one of the top offensive lines in the league for the past 5+ years, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here. And, again, if you're going to try claiming that the line hasn't lost a step without Mankins, you're going to have to ignore the sack numbers and the fact that Connolly got benched.

 

[JackBauer]

I hope the Patriots lock Mankins up long term.

I can't even really believe this topic is up for debate. Of course when Mankins comes back, you play him, and of course he improves the offensive line markedly.

 

[Joker]

Connolly and Vollmer (and Crumpler at TE) were very uneven with their blocking, particularly early on.

Brady disagrees with your Crumpler assessment...in fact, here is what Tom Brady, the starting QB of the New England Patriots,had to say about Alge Crumpler after the Minnesota game...

"I think Alge is a friggin' great blocker. He's a dominating blocker in there," Brady said after the game.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

Really glad Logan's back. Will only make the offense better.

 

[Uncle Rico]

No, no 1,000-yard guys with Mankins. But Pats overall were 6th in the NFL rushing in 2008, and basically 12th-13th most of the time Mankins has been here.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

I've gotta think Mankins is thrilled to see the way BGJE runs and that LoMo is gone.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady disagrees with your Crumpler assessment...in fact, here is what Tom Brady, the starting QB of the New England Patriots,had to say about Alge Crumpler after the Minnesota game...

"I think Alge is a friggin' great blocker. He's a dominating blocker in there," Brady said after the game.

That doesn't run counter to what I noted. Crumpler's been a tremendous blocker for the team this year. He also started out unevenly in the Vikings game (got a penalty for illegal motion, for example). He struggled in the 4th quarter of the Chargers game, too. These guys aren't perfect, after all.

 

[Patsrock]

I am amazed at how many people in this thread have said to either bench or make Mankins inactive. Yet theses same people want Randy Moss back.

Moss did the same thing and demanded to be traded.

I would love to have both on the team myself.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

1.) Pollard came through on a blitz, and he went to the right side of the offensive line. His getting through had nothing to do with Mankins.

2.) Mankins was drafted in 2005. Brady has never had more than 26 sacks with Mankins as his LG, meaning he was never higher than 14 on the sack totals list.

3.) Last year, coming back from the injury, Brady was sacked only 16 times all season. This year, he's already been sacked 12 times, putting him on pace for 27 sacks, which would be higher than any year with Mankins on the line.

Brady was sacked on average 32.5 in the four years he played without Mankins on the O-line. In the four years since Mankins joined the team (excluding 2009), he was sacked an average of 22.3 times per year, and the number went down every year: 26, 26, 21, 16. Someone can make all the arguments they want about "other factors," but that stat is pretty telling to anyone objective. Brady has been a lot better off with Mankins than without him.