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Rivers and James released; Mays and Thomas promoted; Asante officially activated


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Re: Pats Moves

In the preseason! Against second and third teamers!

I hereby dub this the "Patrick Cobbs syndrome." And I refuse to be consumed by it.

If Brady or Watson wasn't here (or if Thomas was on R/PUP), then Rivers would stay.

But there simply isn't room! It EXACTLY the same as Cobbs last year. He runs all over second and third teamers and all the sudden he should make the 53. But where the hell is he going to fit in? The Pats only needed 4 RBs - Dillon, Maroney, Faulk, and Evans. It was simply illogical to keep Cobbs, especially considering he had no special teams prowess.



It doesn't matter! If the Pats need to have Mays play on the defense, that means Vrabel, Thomas, Seau, Bruschi, and Alexander have ALL been injured. And by then, the Pats have more problems than Mays at ILB.

Again, what Mays can do on defense is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT. With a 53-man roster (45 active), there's no solitary way a team can keep enough players for they can have a decent guy on the field if their first TWO layers of depth go down.

What Mays brings to the table on special teams (as is the case with Izzo) is ALL that matters. Nothing more.

I'm pretty sure Rivers caught a TD in the pre-season from Brady against first teamers...

Plus our TE depth scares me. I like Kyle Brady's size but I'm getting some fragile vibes from that guy.
 
Re: Pats Moves

In the preseason! Against second and third teamers!

Rivers played almost the entire first half against Carolina. He came out in the second half when Mills took his place.
 
WOW. Do you ALWAYS go out making these sorts of assumptions? No one is saying to get that Specialized. Rivers plays on special teams as well. And would easily be in on the goal-line situations.

I don't see Rivers out there in kick coverage. I don't see Rivers out there blocking on punt returns. I don't see Rivers out there in punt coverage. I don't see Rivers out there in punt returns.

So where is his value? On field goals? Extra points? To stand there 3-4 times per game?

DaBruinz said:
So how about you dial it down a notch or two and realize that there are plenty of people who are just as smart and knowledgeable as you, Pats1.

OH, and, btw, there are players who DON'T get to play every game. It happens...

Your making a ton of assumptions about who will and won't play on special teams.

Let's think about who's out there on the special teams units. And this certainly isn't an assumption:

Punts: LBs -- Bruschi, Izzo, Alexander, then gunners on the outside -- Washington, Andrews, possibly Baker.

Punt returns: LBs some more, some DBs and Evans to block.

Kicks: Mainly LBs and DBs

Kick returns: Evans, Neal, possibly a TE up front, otherwise LBs and DBs.
 
Re: Pats Moves

In the preseason! Against second and third teamers!

Did Rivers steal your wife or something? You statements are ones of someone who didn't watch the pre-season games at all. Rivers was out there against the Carolina 1st string and the Giants 1st string. As well as the 2nd and 3rd. He was getting tons of reps and had passes in all the situations. You acting like it was ONLY against 2nd and 3rd stringers is truly disingenuous.

I hereby dub this the "Patrick Cobbs syndrome." And I refuse to be consumed by it.

And I hearby dub you inflicted with the "Know it ALL but ignoring the facts" Syndrome.

No one is touting Rivers as the next Antonio Gates. And THAT is what YOU are acting like. We are saying that Rivers is BETTER than MAYS is brings more than MAYS does. We are entitled to that opinion.

If Brady or Watson wasn't here (or if Thomas was on R/PUP), then Rivers would stay.

But there simply isn't room! It EXACTLY the same as Cobbs last year. He runs all over second and third teamers and all the sudden he should make the 53. But where the hell is he going to fit in? The Pats only needed 4 RBs - Dillon, Maroney, Faulk, and Evans. It was simply illogical to keep Cobbs, especially considering he had no special teams prowess.

Like hell there isn't room. The Pats don't need a scrub like MAYS who is just as apt to draw a penalty as he is to make a special teams tackle.

Oh, and people were hoping that Cobbs would be put on the practice squad or kept on the Roster because no one wanted to see a rehash of 2005. You do remember that the Pats had to go out and get Amos Zereoue and Mike Cloud because Faulk, Pass, and Dillon were all injured, right?


It doesn't matter! If the Pats need to have Mays play on the defense, that means Vrabel, Thomas, Seau, Bruschi, and Alexander have ALL been injured. And by then, the Pats have more problems than Mays at ILB.

Again, what Mays can do on defense is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT. With a 53-man roster (45 active), there's no solitary way a team can keep enough players for they can have a decent guy on the field if their first TWO layers of depth go down.

What Mays brings to the table on special teams (as is the case with Izzo) is ALL that matters. Nothing more.

No, its not irrelevant. No matter how much you sit there and scream and shout, jumping up and down claiming it doesn't matter, it does. You sit there and rag on Rivers saying that he won't get snaps and such, yet Mays is going to sit on his keaster out there except for 17-25 snaps (out of 110-140). Last I looked, even at 25 to 110, that is still less than 25% of the game...
 
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Re: Pats Moves

Rivers played almost the entire first half against Carolina. He came out in the second half when Mills took his place.

Quite simply because Kyle Brady was hurt.

Brady is back. Rivers is expendable.
 
I'm astonished nobody has leapt on the conspiracy theory yet:

Rivers was re-signed and Thomas made to look likely to be available to lure the Jets into thinking the Pats were planning to use more 2-TE sets, then at the last possible moment they drop down to a roster with a minimum of TEs. ;)

Now that they've changed the game plan to defending 5 wide they'll be helpless when Vrabel steps in for the all 3 TE sets of the opening drive.

Brilliant!!
 
Re: Pats Moves

I'm pretty sure Rivers caught a TD in the pre-season from Brady against first teamers...

Plus our TE depth scares me. I like Kyle Brady's size but I'm getting some fragile vibes from that guy.

I agree with you about the tightend depth. This move is a little strange, IMO.
 
Re: Pats Moves

I'm pretty sure Rivers caught a TD in the pre-season from Brady against first teamers...

Plus our TE depth scares me. I like Kyle Brady's size but I'm getting some fragile vibes from that guy.

I suppose they can use Vrabel at TE if they have to. And I would guess A Thomas could do something there as well at some point.
 
Re: Pats Moves

Corey Mayes was easily THE WORST linebacker in the pre-season. He sucks.

I don't get it.
Well, we each have our opinions on this. :D

Whether Mays ever becomes more than a Special Teams Ace is for the future to decide, but I'm not surprised by any of the moves. I had James as one of two options to cut to activate Asante (Baker was the other) since he does have the option to decline other team's offers if BB has told him he'll be back...I'd certainly want to come back to a SB contender if there was a reasonable chance. I expected Thomas to be called up given Wright's knee is still gimpy - I still expect Kareem Brown to be inactive, so that gives BB Smith and Thomas behind the starting threesome. A pretty solid top five DL for the Jest game. If Brown is activated I'd expect to see him in the wedge or on coverage units vice the DL.

The James move actually speaks more to Geno's health and the depth at S. Sanders in place of Rodney and the other three starters from last year is a solid starting secondary...Meriweather reportedly looked better at Nickelback then CB, so between Blue and Brandon you have Nickel/CB depth covered. Add both to Mitchell and Andrews and S is very deep.

On STs: Izzo, Woods, Mays, Mitchell, Andrews, Gay, Meriweather, Morris and Evans become your core men...which leaves room for a punter or kicker and one WR/OL/DL depending on blocking or coverage needs. Good potential there.

I anticipate James and Rivers spending an up and down spell on the roster until injuries start shaking things out a bit more.
 
I don't see Rivers out there in kick coverage. I don't see Rivers out there blocking on punt returns. I don't see Rivers out there in punt coverage. I don't see Rivers out there in punt returns.

Then you weren't looking. He was out there.

So where is his value? On field goals? Extra points? To stand there 3-4 times per game?

What do you think MOST special teamers do? Nothing for a majority of the game. There are between 110-140 plays a game. Of them 17-25 are special teams plays. That's it.

Let's think about who's out there on the special teams units. And this certainly isn't an assumption:

Punts: LBs -- Bruschi, Izzo, Alexander, then gunners on the outside -- Washington, Andrews, possibly Baker.

Baker is out.

Punt returns: LBs some more, some DBs and Evans to block.

Mike Wright normally lines up on the NOSE in the punt return formation and usually takes out 2 or 3 blockers.

Kicks: Mainly LBs and DBs
And TEs.

Kick returns: Evans, Neal, possibly a TE up front, otherwise LBs and DBs.

You are forgetting Mike Wright. Jarvis Green has also played on return units.
 
Re: Asante Activated - Per Schefter on NFLN

I bet the weather is indeed hot and humid. I expect Gay to play a substantial amount of time and even start.

I checked earlier and the weather channel says it'll be partly cloudy with a high of 84...Which means there will be no weather related excuses, a great day for football.
 
Re: Pats Moves

I suppose they can use Vrabel at TE if they have to. And I would guess A Thomas could do something there as well at some point.

You can also use a lineman. I liked Rivers abilities compared to our other tight ends. He can block and catch. Might be they waited until rosters were set to drop him and will reacquire to give Thomas time to heal.
 
I'm astonished nobody has leapt on the conspiracy theory yet:

Rivers was re-signed and Thomas made to look likely to be available to lure the Jets into thinking the Pats were planning to use more 2-TE sets, then at the last possible moment they drop down to a roster with a minimum of TEs. ;)


Too late, patch!

Rich Cimini broke this scoop already.
football.US_sports@Al_Jazeera.com

:)
 
To me everyone is forgetting how much our D-Line is taking a hit with Mike Wright being out.
 
To me everyone is forgetting how much our D-Line is taking a hit with Mike Wright being out.

I'm certainly not. Wright being out makes it almost guaranteed that Thomas will be dressed so that the Pats have 5 D-Line going into the game....Though the depth is really shallow considering Kareem Brown and Thomas have really no game experience.
 
To me everyone is forgetting how much our D-Line is taking a hit with Mike Wright being out.

Absolutely. This line has gone from super-deep to scary-shallow in a hurry. Pray for health.
 
Re: Pats Moves

You can also use a lineman. I liked Rivers abilities compared to our other tight ends. He can block and catch. Might be they waited until rosters were set to drop him and will reacquire to give thomas time to heal.

Yeah they could use an OL, but I'm thinking about non goalline and short yardage stuff. Thomas they could use, and I'm not saying they will, from anywhere with his speed. IMO, Rivers blocked and has better hands than Watson does.
 
Re: Pats Moves

Well, we each have our opinions on this. :D

Whether Mays ever becomes more than a Special Teams Ace is for the future to decide, but I'm not surprised by any of the moves. I had James as one of two options to cut to activate Asante (Baker was the other) since he does have the option to decline other team's offers if BB has told him he'll be back...I'd certainly want to come back to a SB contender if there was a reasonable chance. I expected Thomas to be called up given Wright's knee is still gimpy - I still expect Kareem Brown to be inactive, so that gives BB Smith and Thomas behind the starting threesome. A pretty solid top five DL for the Jest game. If Brown is activated I'd expect to see him in the wedge or on coverage units vice the DL.

The James move actually speaks more to Geno's health and the depth at S. Sanders in place of Rodney and the other three starters from last year is a solid starting secondary...Meriweather reportedly looked better at Nickelback then CB, so between Blue and Brandon you have Nickel/CB depth covered. Add both to Mitchell and Andrews and S is very deep.

On STs: Izzo, Woods, Mays, Mitchell, Andrews, Gay, Meriweather, Morris and Evans become your core men...which leaves room for a punter or kicker and one WR/OL/DL depending on blocking or coverage needs. Good potential there.

I anticipate James and Rivers spending an up and down spell on the roster until injuries start shaking things out a bit more.

I have a more one-dimensional view to these things.

The way I look at it, keeping Rivers is adding depth to what I see/feel is a position on the team that could potentially be a volatile one. Rivers is both an adequate pass catcher and blocker, covering the hypothetical loss of either Watson or Brady.

You bring in Mays, and other than his yeoman's efforts on ST, he's a useless body on the sideline.
 
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I'm certainly not. Wright being out makes it almost guaranteed that Thomas will be dressed so that the Pats have 5 D-Line going into the game....Though the depth is really shallow considering Kareem Brown and Thomas have really no game experience.

Anybody else a little surprised they didn't re-sign Rashad Moore instead? I don't think he qualifies for the veteran salary guarantee.
 
Re: Pats Moves

Did Rivers steal your wife or something? You statements are ones of someone who didn't watch the pre-season games at all. Rivers was out there against the Carolina 1st string and the Giants 1st string. As well as the 2nd and 3rd. He was getting tons of reps and had passes in all the situations. You acting like it was ONLY against 2nd and 3rd stringers is truly disingenuous.

Again, because Kyle Brady was hurt. Do you really think he's going to get even 1/10th (1/20th?) of those same opportunities as long as Brady is healthy?

And I hearby dub you inflicted with the "Know it ALL but ignoring the facts" Syndrome.

No, it's just that we saw this same exact thing with Cobbs last year and it seems not everybody learned from it.

No one is touting Rivers as the next Antonio Gates. And THAT is what YOU are acting like. We are saying that Rivers is BETTER than MAYS is brings more than MAYS does. We are entitled to that opinion.

Whether Rivers is a better overall player than Mays is absolutely irrelevant. Rivers is, but it's all about role-playing.

Since neither will see any time with the offense or defense, the only thing that matters is special teams. And you can't sit here and tell me that Rivers is more valuable than Mays on special teams.

Like hell there isn't room. The Pats don't need a scrub like MAYS who is just as apt to draw a penalty as he is to make a special teams tackle.

9 special teams tackles according to the Pats, 3 penalties. Keep in mind that in the 8 games he was on the roster (Weeks 9-17), he was active for every single one, even before Seau was hurt. That says something.

He also had a stop on that fake punt the Texans tried to pull on their first drive of the game - I'm not exactly sure if that counts as a special teams tackle or a defensive tackle.

Oh, and people were hoping that Cobbs would be put on the practice squad or kept on the Roster because no one wanted to see a rehash of 2005. You do remember that the Pats had to go out and get Amos Zereoue and Mike Cloud because Faulk, Pass, and Dillon were all injured, right?

The Patriots don't think that way. Just because you had a bunch of injuries one year doesn't mean there will be a repeat the next year. You simply cannot play scared like that. The Pats won't keep Cobbs (or Rivers) around as extra baggage just in case 2 or 3 of their regulars get hurt.
 
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