Reiss on inevitable O'Connell move

[BadMoFo]

I know people complain about Cassel not being able to throw deep to Moss, but would O'Connell be any better?

I know O'Connell can run and seems to have more confidence than Cassel behind center, but I know nothing about his accuracy or arm strength.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan are two exceptions to the rule.

Actually three weeks in for Ryan and 2 for Flacco, they aren't. They will be up and down as they have both already shown. The key will be how well they progress even as the leagues defensive coordinators compile a book on them... I assume each had experience under center in college, Ryan certainly did, O'Connell didn't - as Bill pointed out to some mediot in pre season... He'd never run anything approaching a pro style offense. At least at USC they taught it. Ryan had a full TC of being groomed to start, Flacco was also groomed for that distinct possibility...O'Connell was 4th on the depth chart throughout camp and into the preseason until Gutierrez played/practiced his way off the roster.

Mike is making the same mistake his predecessors made - he's falling into the opinion trap and BB is making him look foolish. In time that is what begins to sour them all on Bill... Cassel was basically a victim of media groupthink this offseason. Someone told someone else that the team really loved Gutierrez...and they ran with that story like it was a sign from on high that Cassel was toast. After all they drafted a QB in the third round. They did that because Cassel was a FA in 2009, they apparently weren't convinced Gutierrez would develop (hence the reluctance to even put him on the PS until after Brady went down) and 2009 when they would have absolutely needed a developmental QB on the roster is projected to be a poor year for draft prospects at the position.

So much of life is common sense. So few realize that and waste time over analyzing situations essentially beyond their capacity to anyway. Mike will one day find that the more critical opinions he offers about something he has no real basis to grasp the less inside information will flow his way.

It's like the circle of life here for football mediots. One of the few who grasped that and allowed it to work for him (and us) is Michael Holley... Of course on average he was way brighter than the average mediot to begin with.

I've said it before but I'll say it again - I don't care what they think, I care what Bill thinks. And unless they are telling me they know what Bill thinks, their opinion is of little value to me in forming mine.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I know people complain about Cassel not being able to throw deep to Moss, but would O'Connell be any better?

I know O'Connell can run and seems to have more confidence than Cassel behind center, but I know nothing about his accuracy or arm strength.

According to NFL.com, his arm strength rivals Joe Flacco's. It's hard to talk about accuracy, because his receivers weren't particularly good, and his OL was a disaster. That said, his preseason TD pass to the back of the EZ was close to perfect, so good accuracy is at least a possibility.

Then again, as was pointed out above, O'Connell--who played in the WAC--never played in a pro-style offense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't have to deal with anything, it's clear to me and apparently clear to guys like Mike Reiss and from other accounts people in the FO that Kevin O'Connell is actually the guy and it really is just a matter of time.

Speaking of the SD game. What do you honestly think Matt Cassel is going to do when he trots into Qualcomm or Lucas Oil Stadium ? Two teams that want to annihilate us for past endeavers. I'll tell you right now what he's going to do, he's going to crap his pants, those games are going to be freakin ugly, tellin you right now.

LOL Just like it was clear to you and guys like Mike reiss and from all other accounts people in the FO that Gutierrez had passed Cassel on the depth chart during camp...

The SD game could be ugly, has even been that way with Brady too... Remember how Troy Brown had to save Tommy's ass by forcing a fumble after a throw from Tom to him was picked on a play that would have sealed our doom in a playoff game...Nah, you guys have selective memory disorder...Meanwhile the Colts have yet to win in the Lubradome and may be crapping their own pants as Peyton Manning checks in as the 23rd ranked QB in the league while some stiff who hadn't played since HS remains a respectble 17th ranked after a week in which his defense fell for the same college play 5 freakin' times in the same game...

 

[Leave No Doubt]

LOL Just like it was clear to you and guys like Mike reiss and from all other accounts people in the FO that Gutierrez had passed Cassel on the depth chart during camp...

The SD game could be ugly, has even been that way with Brady too... Remember how Troy Brown had to save Tommy's ass by forcing a fumble after a throw from Tom to him was picked on a play that would have sealed our doom in a playoff game...Nah, you guys have selective memory disorder...Meanwhile the Colts have yet to win in the Lubradome and may be crapping their own pants as Peyton Manning checks in as the 23rd ranked QB in the league while some stiff who hadn't played since HS remains a respectble 17th ranked after a week in which his defense fell for the same college play 5 freakin' times in the same game...

LOL post of the day

 

[BradyToMoss]

According to NFL.com, his arm strength rivals Joe Flacco's. It's hard to talk about accuracy, because his receivers weren't particularly good, and his OL was a disaster. That said, his preseason TD pass to the back of the EZ was close to perfect, so good accuracy is at least a possibility. .

Exactly, and that pass was to our good friend Chad Jackson. Actually what people commented on was the fact that Kevin had the brains and wherewithall to take it upon himself to check off out of the originally called play and take advantage of Chad Jackson with single coverage and the safeties rolled to the right. He read the defense, checked out back to Jackson and threw a beautiful deep fade spiral to Jackson for 6. The ball had tremendous touch and accuracy on it.

This guy knows how to play behind a suspect O-line, as BB said himself, Kevin is used to running, he did it his whole career as an Aztec, the line he had was putrid.

Again, this will all be displayed at some point this year after Matty Headlights craps the bed.........

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Exactly, and that pass was to our good friend Chad Jackson. Actually what people commented on was the fact that Kevin had the brains and wherewithall to take it upon himself to check off out of the originally called play and take advantage of Chad Jackson with single coverage and the safeties rolled to the right. He read the defense, checked out back to Jackson and threw a beautiful deep fade spiral to Jackson for 6. The ball had tremendous touch and accuracy on it.

Not to be facetious, but BB didn't cut Jackson just for shiggles. And, in any case, before you start paying for gas for the O'Connell bandwagon, remember that he looked good playing against third-string Ds, not first-string. That's not to say he can't do better than Cassel, just that it's not the proven fact you make it out to be.

 

[SeauOUCH]

More stupid people blaming the quarterback for a loss that certainly wasn't his fault. Cassel is a decent QB who will be getting better over time. There is no evidence at all that O'Connell is better than Cassel in a real NFL game against real starters. If he was, he would be starting.

Oh, but I forget that the geniuses of patsfans.com are more aware of player talent than the coaching staff themselves. Never mind that they watch and speak to these guys every day. If this board actually got together and tried to run the Pats personnel management, they'd lose every game.

Hey guys, let's place the weight of all our decisions on emotion instead of logic! Let's do what feels right, instead of what is right.

Cassel's completion rate through his first three starts since high school: 66.7%. Yards per attempt: 6.22. Touchdowns: 2. Interceptions: 1. QB Rating: 87.0. Record: 2-1. And you're calling for his head? Because of ONE loss, in which the defense couldn't stop anyone? And it's Cassel's fault that the D failed? What the ****?

Get a grip.

17,19 & 13 those are the only stats that matter! Whats worse is we started almost at mid field every drive against the Jets thanks to great ST play.

QB rating & completion % are the most over rated stats in the NFL. All those short completions dont mean jack when you cant finish drives with points.

This is the same Miami D we absolutely TORCHED last year ( minus Jason Taylor ) I don't know why you Cassel apologists have the bar set so low that averaging 16 points per game against the worst defenses in the league is doing well.

Atlanta scored 38 against the Chiefs last week!

 

[BradyToMoss]

17,19 & 13 those are the only stats that matter! Whats worse is we started almost at mid field every drive against the Jets thanks to great ST play.

QB rating & completion % are the most over rated stats in the NFL. All those short completions dont mean jack when you cant finish drives with points.

This is the same Miami D we absolutely TORCHED last year ( minus Jason Taylor ) I don't know why you Cassel apologists have the bar set so low that averaging 16 points per game against the worst defenses in the league is doing well.

Atlanta scored 38 against the Chiefs last week!

Throw in the 3 picks that should have happened and were dropped

The lost fumble

combined with what you've correctly wrote and we have a real problem on our hands because the defenses we see are only going to get better and better.

 

[TheComeback]

You conveniently forgot to mention a few things:

3 legitmately dropped interceptions (2 of which bounced miraculously into the hands of our WRs and Kevin Faulk)

1 lost fumble

17ppg against what have to be 2 of the 5 worst defenses in football and 7 of those points were courtesy of an Ellis Hobbs 80 yard return

I did not "conveniently" leave out those points. I left them out because they are irrelevant. Wow, one lost fumble in three games? Big deal. That's less than Carson Palmer and the same as Tony Romo. It means nothing. And what the hell is a "legitimately dropped" interception? Last time I checked, those don't count.

Do I need to point out, again, that Cassel has started a grand total of three games in the NFL? What the hell did you expect from him so soon? Any disappointment is a direct result of unrealistic expectations on your part.

If this is the best you can do, then give up. What evidence do you have that O'Connell will be better than Cassel? Four preseason games?

As for Cassel not having an arm, are you serious? One of his first completions this season was a 51 yard bomb to Moss. In fact, one of the aspects of his play that NFL scouts have pointed out is that he throws the ball TOO hard. Cassel has an arm.

When gets the protection, you'll be seeing him throw to Moss. Cassel has had awful protection this year, averaging 3 sacks a game--and by the way, he doesn't hold the ball too long; if anything, he doesn't wait long enough. That patience will come with time.

Even so, he's still put up decent numbers, despite his inexperience. And yet we have spoiled Pats fans on here calling for his head. Get real.

 

[TheComeback]

17,19 & 13 those are the only stats that matter! Whats worse is we started almost at mid field every drive against the Jets thanks to great ST play.

QB rating & completion % are the most over rated stats in the NFL. All those short completions dont mean jack when you cant finish drives with points.

This is the same Miami D we absolutely TORCHED last year ( minus Jason Taylor ) I don't know why you Cassel apologists have the bar set so low that averaging 16 points per game against the worst defenses in the league is doing well.

Atlanta scored 38 against the Chiefs last week!

You have no idea what you're talking about. QB rating and completion rates are absolutely important in determining the quality of an NFL quarterback. How many poor quarterbacks in the NFL have high quarterback ratings? Oh, that's right. None.

Cassel might be the leader of the offense, but it is not entirely his fault that they have been low scoring. The running game has been sub-par, and his protection has been terrible. But never mind that; let's play the blame game.

His passes haven't been short completions at all--in fact, averaging 6.6 yards per attempt is barely lower than the 6.9 that Brady averaged last year. Oh, but I forget that facts don't matter to the ignorant.

What matters is winning. I don't give two ****s if we win by 3, by 10, or by 20, and neither should you--does it matter that our three superbowl wins were all by a margin of three points? No. Defense has always been the strength of this team, and will continue to be for the remainder of the season.

Cassel has DONE HIS JOB because he has not turned the ball over like most inexperienced quarterbacks do. One interception in three games is nothing compared to what most QB's at his level do.

I'm setting the bar low because our starting quarterback has THREE GAMES of experience in the NFL. I do not expect him to go in there after two games and throw three touchdowns for 400 yards and no interceptions. That isn't just unrealistic expectation, it's a stupid expectation.

Furthermore, this is the NFL. So what if we trounced the Dolphins last year? This is this year. Anything can happen on a sunday. Is Cassel supposed to go in there and manage the defense now, too?

 

[emoney_33]

Amazingly the same people who brush off Cassel's performance in the Jets and Chiefs games because the Jets and Chiefs are "bad" are the same people that believe O'Connel is ready because he proved it against 3rd and 4th stringers.

 

[spacecrime]

You're right - but I think the bad OL play is largely because Cassel hasn't gone downfield since the pass to Moss from the 1 vs. KC. A long pass for him is 10 yards - of course teams can start blitzing and abusing the OL with no fear. Not saying it would be different with O'Connell and none of us know if Cassel is choosing to go short or if he's been told to - but the total lack of a downfield game makes it very hard on the OL.

Total lack? Did you miss the KC game then.

You cannot overcome poor blocking by throwing downfield. It takes 3-4 seconds for the WR to get downfield, and if the OLine is only good for less than 2 seconds, it is a sack in hte making.

The way you make an Oline look good is with quick, short accurate passes. This has been the gameplan.

 

[spacecrime]

A lot of posters on here had some kind of dillusions that Cassel could step right in and make us forget we were missing the best QB in the game.

I don't think so. Show me a lot of posts by these lot of posters and I'll admit you are right, but until then you are making this up.

THe Cassel supporters believe that Cassel's work in 2008 is eerily similar to Brady's work in 2001. And we are RIGHT.

 

[BritPat]

As much as I want to see Cassel do well and win games, I would like to see Gutierrez given a chance just to see how he reacts to in-game situations. Brady had only a season of experience under his belt when he stepped into the breach.

I'm not saying he should start the next game, but I would like to see him get 10 minutes - a quarter.

 

[emoney_33]

As much as I want to see Cassel do well and win games, I would like to see Gutierrez given a chance just to see how he reacts to in-game situations. Brady had only a season of experience under his belt when he stepped into the breach.

I'm not saying he should start the next game, but I would like to see him get 10 minutes - a quarter.

This doesn't make sense to me... why?

 

[NSpatsfan]

There has been so much debate on this board lately about Cassel, and whether he is capable of guiding this team into the playoffs. I really got to say at this point that it is impossible to know. To make any comparisons to last year or 2001 or any year to me is just foolish. Right now the quarterback of the team that I am gonna support through thick and thin is Matt Cassel, to make any assumptions about how bad or even how good he can be at this point is just not fair. Maybe its leftover angst from last year but man it seems like some people are winding up a bit to tight on this one and need to relax, it is what it is.

 

[SeauOUCH]

His passes haven't been short completions at all--in fact, averaging 6.6 yards per attempt is barely lower than the 6.9 that Brady averaged last year. Oh, but I forget that facts don't matter to the ignorant.

You just proved my point on how over rated stats are. Well they have the same yards per attempt so I guess the Pats must be moving the ball at will & scoring points in bunches..oh wait

What matters is winning. I don't give two ****s if we win by 3, by 10, or by 20, and neither should you--does it matter that our three superbowl wins were all by a margin of three points? No. Defense has always been the strength of this team, and will continue to be for the remainder of the season.

I dont care if we win every game 3-0. I'm just being realistic, there is no fuggin way we are gonna make the play-offs if we cant do better than 16ppg! ( against the worst D's in the league! )

Part of the reason our D was ranked 4th last year is because our O was sooo good it made our opponents 1 diminsional ( abondon the run ). I'm afraid our D is gonna get worn out & beaten down over the course of the year if our offense continues to sputter.

A perfect example is Baltimores D last year, they were once dominant but just seemed to run out of gas last year & were demoralized by their pathetic offense.

I actually hope we go get Garcia for a 4th rounder or something like that. The dude has been good to great every time he has been on good teams. He has a real good run when he led the Eagles to the playoffs.

Honestly how many games do you think we are going to win averaging 16ppg?

 

[BritPat]

This doesn't make sense to me... why?

Why? Because then we'll have a more accurate idea of if we do need to bring an experienced QB in if Cassel begins to seriously struggle this year, and whether Gutierrez can back up Brady better than Cassel can.

I said yesterday that the season was over for me the minute Tommy went down, so IMO, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at Gutierrez.

 

[emoney_33]

Why? Because then we'll have a more accurate idea of if we do need to bring an experienced QB in if Cassel begins to seriously struggle this year, and whether Gutierrez can back up Brady better than Cassel can.

I said yesterday that the season was over for me the minute Tommy went down, so IMO, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at Gutierrez.

Well thankfully you don't run this team. I would be pissed if the team gave up just because ONE player went down.