Reiss on inevitable O'Connell move

[tedylb]

I'm amazed at how many on this board KNOW they can evaluate QBs better than the coaches. And how many who KNOW Cassel, after three games, will never improve.

Faced with the same pressure Cassel faced all day, Tom couldn't have won this game. Under similar pressure, how many points did the Pats score in the last SB? Pennington looked like Joe Montana because he had all day to throw. Cassel didn't. The game was won and lost on both sides of the line of scrimmage. The Dolphin lines (and LB's) beat the hell out of our lines, and the score reflected it.

Meanwhile, continue your armchair coaching. I'll continue to trust the real coaches to correct the real problems the team has.

 

[BritPat]

Well thankfully you don't run this team. I would be pissed if the team gave up just because ONE player went down.

Who said give up?

I said give him some playing time.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Why? Because then we'll have a more accurate idea of if we do need to bring an experienced QB in if Cassel begins to seriously struggle this year, and whether Gutierrez can back up Brady better than Cassel can.

I said yesterday that the season was over for me the minute Tommy went down, so IMO, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at Gutierrez.

Nevermind he didn't make the roster out of TC and preseason and didn't make the PS after clearing waivers until after Brady went down...

They had a look at Gutierrez and passed. He's only back to run the scout team. This isn't college where insecure coaches split snaps to placate alummni. If we're struggling to win it makes no sense to play musical 2009 backup QB auditions. If the season is over Gutierrez is 3rd in line behind Brady and O'Connell next season as a ERFA if the team chooses to tender him.

 

[emoney_33]

Who said give up?

I said yesterday that the season was over for me the minute Tommy went down

You implied it. You have no basis of fact of WHY to try Gutz over Cass, other than because you want to. I think the coaches analysis of the two is worth more than your "hunch" or whatever it is. Maybe it's the infatuation of how good he "looked" against 4th stringers.

 

[BritPat]

You implied it. You have no basis of fact of WHY to try Gutz over Cass, other than because you want to. I think the coaches analysis of the two is worth more than your "hunch" or whatever it is. Maybe it's the infatuation of how good he "looked" against 4th stringers.

Where did I say the team should give up?

I implied the season was over in my opinion, do you understand what an opinion is?

************ son, why are you so worked up?

 

[BritPat]

Nevermind he didn't make the roster out of TC and preseason and didn't make the PS after clearing waivers until after Brady went down...

They had a look at Gutierrez and passed. He's only back to run the scout team. This isn't college where insecure coaches split snaps to placate alummni. If we're struggling to win it makes no sense to play musical 2009 backup QB auditions. If the season is over Gutierrez is 3rd in line behind Brady and O'Connell next season as a ERFA if the team chooses to tender him.

You could argue there were reasons for him not making the 53 and whatever. 5 running backs for a start. When was the last time we carried 4 QB's? He was never going to beat out O'Connell, and Cassel does have vastly experience, which is why he's been kept and is the starter.

I'm not saying bring him back, dump Cassel, make him the starter over Brady, I'm simply saying that we could do worse than give him some extended playing time.

 

[emoney_33]

Where did I say the team should give up?

I implied the season was over in my opinion, do you understand what an opinion is?

************ son, why are you so worked up?

Ok so because YOU believe the season is over, YOU want the Pats to give Gutz a shot, just because YOU want it?

 

[BritPat]

Ok so because YOU believe the season is over, YOU want the Pats to give Gutz a shot, just because YOU want it?

Why do YOU want Cassel to play every minute possible? Because YOU want it?

And I wouldn't mind seeing Gutierrez given some game time because he could turn out to be a pleasant surprise. I'm not going to slit my wrists if it doesn't happen.

Unlike you who seemingly has a problem at someone having a different opinion.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

The way injuries are going in this league right now,if Cassel ever went down in the middle of a dogfight against a very physical team and our OL was having one of it's inconsistent days, I feel bad saying this but Gutz would be my first choice for sacrificial lamb But Gutz can get plenty of reps during practice; under normal circumstances O'C would probably get the nod for any available gametime because, as it is right now at least, O'C is the #2. The End, but stay tuned

 

[emoney_33]

As much as I want to see Cassel do well and win games, I would like to see Gutierrez given a chance just to see how he reacts to in-game situations. Brady had only a season of experience under his belt when he stepped into the breach.

I'm not saying he should start the next game, but I would like to see him get 10 minutes - a quarter.

This doesn't make sense to me... why?

Why? Because then we'll have a more accurate idea of if we do need to bring an experienced QB in if Cassel begins to seriously struggle this year, and whether Gutierrez can back up Brady better than Cassel can.

I said yesterday that the season was over for me the minute Tommy went down, so IMO, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at Gutierrez.

Well thankfully you don't run this team. I would be pissed if the team gave up just because ONE player went down.

Who said give up?

I said give him some playing time.

You implied it. You have no basis of fact of WHY to try Gutz over Cass, other than because you want to. I think the coaches analysis of the two is worth more than your "hunch" or whatever it is. Maybe it's the infatuation of how good he "looked" against 4th stringers.

Where did I say the team should give up?

I implied the season was over in my opinion, do you understand what an opinion is?

************ son, why are you so worked up?

Ok so because YOU believe the season is over, YOU want the Pats to give Gutz a shot, just because YOU want it?

Why do YOU want Cassel to play every minute possible? Because YOU want it?

And I wouldn't mind seeing Gutierrez given some game time because he could turn out to be a pleasant surprise. I'm not going to slit my wrists if it doesn't happen.

Unlike you who seemingly has a problem at someone having a different opinion.

The evolution of the conversation.

Why do YOU want Cassel to play every minute possible? Because YOU want it?

And I wouldn't mind seeing Gutierrez given some game time because he could turn out to be a pleasant surprise. I'm not going to slit my wrists if it doesn't happen.

Unlike you who seemingly has a problem at someone having a different opinion.

I have no problem with differing opinions, I have a problem with "opinions" that have a lot of factual evidence against them and are seemingly taken from thin air.

I do not "want" Cassel to start, I WANT the team to win as many games as possible. I also understand that I do not have the ability to properly analyze any QB in our system that is not on the IR. None of the three have played a large sample of games. All we do know is that there are very intelligent people who have seen all 3 significantly in practices and some for multiple years.

There's a difference between being able to somewhat evaluate a player based on meaningful performance and just throwing crap against the wall hoping it sticks.

Your prior post said you wanted to play Gutz 10 mins a quarter in order to get a more accurate idea if we need to bring in a Vet later? So you'll be able to evaluate and judge Cassel in 5 mins/qtr and Gutz in 10 mins/qtr, while having enough time to get a vet and train him in the system?

 

[dtbrks]

I'm amazed at how many on this board KNOW they can evaluate QBs better than the coaches. And how many who KNOW Cassel, after three games, will never improve.

Faced with the same pressure Cassel faced all day, Tom couldn't have won this game. Under similar pressure, how many points did the Pats score in the last SB? Pennington looked like Joe Montana because he had all day to throw. Cassel didn't. The game was won and lost on both sides of the line of scrimmage. The Dolphin lines (and LB's) beat the hell out of our lines, and the score reflected it.

Meanwhile, continue your armchair coaching. I'll continue to trust the real coaches to correct the real problems the team has.

Stop making so much sense

 

[BritPat]

The evolution of the conversation.





I have no problem with differing opinions, I have a problem with "opinions" that have a lot of factual evidence against them and are seemingly taken from thin air.

Alright, if you want to get arsey about it........

"From thin air". How is it from thin air, pray tell? Stop talking jibberish.

I do not "want" Cassel to start, I WANT the team to win as many games as possible. I also understand that I do not have the ability to properly analyze any QB in our system that is not on the IR. None of the three have played a large sample of games. All we do know is that there are very intelligent people who have seen all 3 significantly in practices and some for multiple years.

So what's wrong with giving Gutierrez some game time then? Hmmm? Say we're 28-0 down going into the 4th quarter against the 49ers in 10 days, Cassel's thrown 4 INT's, what is wrong with giving Gutierrez some game time? They clearly like him, otherwise they wouldn't have brought him in when Tommy went down rather than ANY OTHER FREE AGENT QUARTERBACK ON THE MARKET. This is why I would like to see him given a bit of game time. Because they clearly rate him.

There's a difference between being able to somewhat evaluate a player based on meaningful performance and just throwing crap against the wall hoping it sticks.

See above. They like him, they trust him over any quarterback out there, so it's not exactly throwing crap against the wall is it?

Your prior post said you wanted to play Gutz 10 mins a quarter in order to get a more accurate idea if we need to bring in a Vet later? So you'll be able to evaluate and judge Cassel in 5 mins/qtr and Gutz in 10 mins/qtr, while having enough time to get a vet and train him in the system?

Not entirely, no, but it gives you more of an idea of whether he can do it or not. They could give him more than that. However it's all based on the premise that Cassel performs horribly. You couple that with what you see on the practise field, in the film room etc. Although there is no better way to analyse or evaluate a player than on the field during in-game situations.

Thing is though, if Cassel can't get it done, and performs horribly consistently, then we will need a Plan B, whether that be Gutierrez or a veteran.

My point is, simply, if the chance arises, I would give Gutierrez some time on the field and try and figure out for sure whether he is a viable option at some point in the future, whether that be as a short term replacement starter for Cassel or as a short term replacement back up for Cassel.

Now, how hard is that idea to get round?

 

[DaBruinz]

Reiss on Cassel and O'Connell, in this week's mailbag

"I'm not sure how the Patriots truly view Cassel. At this time, after what I felt was a subpar performance Sunday, it's easy to pile on Cassel. But taking into account the big picture, if I had to guess, I'd say that the team was a bit concerned with what it saw in the preseason - but based on the three-year investment and the lack of other options -- hoped that it could get by with him for a stretch until O'Connell was ready to take over the No. 2 spot. Then the disaster struck with Brady's injury in the opener. So as for the future, I do think O'Connell will eventually leapfrog Cassel, who I'm not sure can consistently throw the ball to the deep third of the field. I have been impressed with what I have seen from O'Connell. The way I view it, it's not a matter of if he passes Cassel, but more when."

Ask Reiss: Readers can't forget this forgettable loss - Boston.com

Reiss is great when he is giving us the facts. But, his opinions leave a lot to be desired. Reiss' opinion on player movement (be it draft, ufa, roster moves, etc) has been more like a blind squirrel in the woods (Sorry Mike).

Even most recently, Mike had Cassel gone with Gut staying.

So, I have to put this in the "one man's opinion" category. It may happen. It may not. Who knows. All I know is that its highly unlikely O'Connell will start this year unless The Pats can't get a trade done for a starting QB.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't know all of the stats
BUt I think he is right more than wrong in regards to feeling out the pats

Not when it comes to his mailbag. When he's reporting stuff they've given him. He's great. When it comes to his own opinion, he's not been right that often.

The draft is a big one. He was touting Jon Beason 2 years ago. He was touting someone else last year. This year, I think he was looking at Gholston or Harvey.

He was also caught totally off guard by the Jackson and Gutierrez cuts.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bad QBs make OLs look bad.

If Cassel was getting 4-6 seconds of clean time, I'd agree with you. He's lucky to be getting 3.

O-lines playing bad make ANY QB look bad.

BTW, this is the same O-line that was playing pretty badly in game 1.

 

[DaBruinz]

You're right - but I think the bad OL play is largely because Cassel hasn't gone downfield since the pass to Moss from the 1 vs. KC. A long pass for him is 10 yards - of course teams can start blitzing and abusing the OL with no fear. Not saying it would be different with O'Connell and none of us know if Cassel is choosing to go short or if he's been told to - but the total lack of a downfield game makes it very hard on the OL.

This is just false BS. Sorry, but they've tried to go down field on more than a few occasions in the last 2 games. The O-line folded like a cheap suit and wasn't even getting Cassel 3 seconds. You need more than 3 seconds to set up a downfield pass.

The reason that there is a lack of a down field game is because of the O-line.

 

[DaBruinz]

It's a chicken and egg for sure. But as the old saying goes, you blitz the bad QB and cover against the good ones. Although teams resorted to blitzing Brady last year when nothing else worked, there was always the fear they would be burned if they did it too much - now, there's no fear.

I don't think I have it backwards, although I can see that argument.

You do have it backwards and its not the "chicken or the egg". If you want help convincing yourself that you're wrong, just watch the games again and watch how the O-line gets shredded in both facets of their blocking.

Its a know fact that to beat a blitzing team, you throw short screens and slants to force them back. Then you start opening the longer stuff to continue to beat them back. But, if you can't get your QB the time he needs to begin with, then it doesn't matter. None of its going to work.

 

[DaBruinz]

Baloney. Tom Brady would have put up 40 points on the Dolphins and the Dolphins would have been on the field on offense for 18 minutes, not nearly 33 minutes.

*ROFLMAO* Thanks for the laugh. Tom wouldn't have been healthy enough for that with the way that the O-line was playing. Go back and watch weeks one and two. The O-line has been average at beat and junk at worst.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't agree. With Brady, the chances of us losing that game are less than 5%.

BS.. Sorry Lloyd, but that is complete manure. With how poorly the o-line played and how poorly the D played, it didn't matter if Jesus himself was the QB, the Pats weren't going to win.

You have to recognized that SOME of the bad play from the rest of the team is due to the fact that Tom Brady will not be under center all year.

Again, more manure.

Momentum, confidence, etc... these play a part. Psychologically, the Pats are down. I only hope that beating from the lowly Dolphins was the event that can turn that around.

The O-line was playing poorly prior to Brady going down. What's your excuse for that?

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, no offense, but I wouldn't exactly hang my hat on that "fact".

If Reiss made a mistake, it was in his evaluation of Gutierez. If we had had a decent vet QB on this roster (and we should have), Cassel would have been cut just as Reiss predicted.

And you know this how?


You don't. Its pure fabricated speculation on your part.