Reiss Blog: Analysis of defensive snaps per player

[Bobs My Uncle]

FWIW, JAG Baker was the 82nd ranked recruit in the country coming out of high school (just behind Vince Wilfork and Ronnie Brown), and was one of the best DB's in the SEC. Draft position doesn't tell the entire story of how talented someone is. See Gay, Randall, and Welker, Wes. With Wilson likely moving on, I'm sure you will get a big dose of Meriweather next year.

Also, Gay and Hobbs had to play early because of necessity. Remember Duane Starks and Earthwind Moreland?

I was a Bills season ticket holder for both years Baker played in Buffalo. He wasn't very good. Actually, he was horrid and looked nothing like a top 1000 ranked high schooler.

Now it's possible things have changed for him but that doesn't lesson my worry that our 1st rounder, and highly ranked collegiate player, can't surpass him on our depth chart.

 

[shmessy]

Also, Gay and Hobbs had to play early because of necessity. Remember Duane Starks and Earthwind Moreland?

I'm sorry. Were Gay and Hobbs 1st round draft picks? Were either of them unable to be even the #4 on a depth chart?

Look, it comes down to some posters believe it's OK for a 1st round draft pick to not be able to crack the top 4 on the depth chart at his position from the get-go. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't share it.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm sorry. Were Gay and Hobbs 1st round draft picks? Were either of them unable to be even the #4 on a depth chart?

Look, it comes down to some posters believe it's OK for a 1st round draft pick to not be able to crack the top 4 on the depth chart at his position from the get-go. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't share it.

Excellent perspective. Our homerism should not inhibit expressions of concern and wonderment when a 1st rounder gets little to no PT when we're blowing guys out.

-phil

 

[Rob0729]

I think it is crazy not to start to question Meriweather at this point. It is far too early to label him a bust. But the guy has regressed and it isn't just because Harrison and Baker returned to the line up. If you look at Reiss' breakdown every week there is a pretty steady and consistent drop off of the number of plays he is given and you look at his stats and the drop off is pretty dramatic too. The only time he has been noticed on the field for the last month or so was him giving up the Chris Cooley TD where he showed poor coverage, instincts, and tackling on the same play.

People keep bringing up Ty Warren, but typically DE in a 3-4 is a tougher position to pick up than safety (one of the easiest on defense to pick up) and Warren was more productive considering the position and even started 4 games in the middle of the season.

I'm sorry, but I feel the excuses for Meriweather are starting to run thin. He needs to start to step up and earn some playing time. It is a very realistic possibility that neither Harrison or Wilson will be on this team next season with Harrison potentially retiring and Wilson an UFA. That means Meriweather will be competiting for a starting job. The problem is that the Pats will need to spend one or two high picks on another safety or two if Meriweather hasn't proven that he can compete for a starting role this season.

 

[stevepratt]

Great post...and I completely agree...I know it takes some players longer than others to adjust but its not like we are asking merriweather to be a starter right now...all we are asking is that he beat out RASHARD BAKER for some playing time in sub packages! I don't think that is too unrealistic for a first round pick. The times he has been in the game I cant remember him doing anything good and he has clearly looked out of positions on more than one play (not just the garbage time cooley td). I would even figure Willie Andrews would be ahead of Baker but he must be doing something good in practice to keep earning him these snaps. IMO I would like to see Baker strictly on special teams if anything....

 

[JackBauer]

Ridiculous depth at Safety?

What was the depth chart at third Safety after Harrison and Sanders last week?

Safeties:

Harrison
Wilson
Sanders
Meriweather
Andrews
Baker
Mitchell

And Gay can play safety. If you can find me a team deeper at the position in the league... well, that's just it. You can't.

 

[JackBauer]

One reason I do worry about Meriweather: this isn't some raw athletic freak who was drafted based on untapped potential. He's a guy with very modest measurables who was supposed to have terrific football instincts and a good understanding of the game. That's the kind of guy you'd generally expect to be ready early.

He also did play under Coker, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he has a lot to unlearn.

 

[JackBauer]

I think it is crazy not to start to question Meriweather at this point. It is far too early to label him a bust. But the guy has regressed and it isn't just because Harrison and Baker returned to the line up.

How do you figure that he's regressed? I don't know; I think it's way too early to tell what's going on. He's done well on kick and punt coverage, and IIRC won one of the black jerseys at practice recently. I mean, AD barely played against the Colts, either. Who knows why?

 

[stevepratt]

Obviously everyone has different learning curves. But I think its hard to overlook the fact that Baker was a healthy scratch early in the year and now is ahead of Merriweather on the d-back depth chart. Hes just kinda been there on special teams, hasnt really done much there either. In no means am I writing him off I just thought we would have seen a bit more from the eventually Harrison successor.

 

[javajunky]

The Patriots run a very complex defense. It's a lot for a rookie to grasp. Everyone should give Meriweather some time. Baker was in the game because of his experience in the specific sub-packages they were running.

When Wilson and Gay had to start in their rookie years, the defense was dumbed down for them. The team has no immediate need to do this for Meriweather.

If the referees called a fair game then Colts would have ended up with only 6pts in there home stadium! So let’s keep using these esoteric defenses.

 

[shmessy]

Safeties:

Harrison
Wilson
Sanders
Meriweather
Andrews
Baker
Mitchell

And Gay can play safety. If you can find me a team deeper at the position in the league... well, that's just it. You can't.

Once again (since you don't seem to have gotten it the first 7 times), I'm not saying he's expected to beat out Harrison, Wilson or Sanders in his rookie year.

But to be behind ANYONE else other than those three as a 1st rounder is DEFINITELY an underperformance of expectations.

The bar isn't all that high in this situation for a 1st rounder to be the #4 at Safety, in fact, it's pretty low.

 

[stevepratt]

I think the "complexity" of the Patriots defense can be a bit overrated especially when it comes to d-backs. I understand linebackers have a lot to know with the different formationsa and calls that need to be made. Baker was playing b/c of his experience in the sub-package? Well either way everytime I saw a Colt running to the end zone I saw #32 on the ground or chasing him. I'm sure merriweather played with 5,6 or 7 dbacks out there in college. Its not like the colts were using strange formations or running crazy routes.

 

[sebman2112]

PRECISELY the point. The only time he got any PT was because we were out of bodies at the position. Can't beat out JAG Baker. This is NOT typical for a 1st rounder, not even on the Patriots and especially not given the HUGE leads we've had in most games.

If you're talking about right now, then yes, Baker is getting more snaps, but during that game and some other games Meriweather wasn't behind Baker.

It seems to me that BB is trying to give him some time in the system before playing him to much, and Brandon's likely going through an adjustment. In that Cincy game Meriweather stoned TJ in the backfield, and he put a pretty nice hit on CJ, so we know he's got the physical skills needed, it's just a matter of him getting the Patriots system. I'm not worried at this point, and I find it laughable for any of you to actually be worried, this early.

Incidently, I was going to post something about Baker after the Redskins game. He actually kind of impressed me a little, and his development from past seasons is noticable.

 

[patchick]

Incidently, I was going to post something about Baker after the Redskins game. He actually kind of impressed me a little, and his development from past seasons is noticable.

He's been terrific on special teams, too. I guess that's the glass half-full version: Hey, how 'bout that Rashad Baker!

 

[sebman2112]

He's been terrific on special teams, too. I guess that's the glass half-full version: Hey, how 'bout that Rashad Baker!

Well, I'm somewhat optimistic, and the debbie downer types tend to annoy the f*ck out of me. Instead of just harping on Brandon's lack of snaps (which I'm not happy with either by the way), maybe some of us could notice that Baker has actually looked somewhat decent when out there. I'm just saying Meriweather's lack of snaps isn't the only story.

It's like the posters who actually make threads asking "Where was AD, did he even play?", when he's in the game report with 2 tackles. Speaking of AD, it seemed he started out kind of strong, but he's faded somewhat with these different injuries. Hopefully he'll come back strong after the bye.

Anyways, if Meriweather's not starting or the third Safety (if Sanders, and Harrison stick) in 2008 than I'll be worried. I'm like that with all rookies by the way, as I realize some can take a year or even two before they fully adjust to the NFL, and their different roles. The Patriots being 9-0 and their defense only giving up 16.3 ppg also helps ease my concerns

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If you're talking about right now, then yes, Baker is getting more snaps, but during that game and some other games Meriweather wasn't behind Baker.

It seems to me that BB is trying to give him some time in the system before playing him to much, and Brandon's likely going through an adjustment. In that Cincy game Meriweather stoned TJ in the backfield, and he put a pretty nice hit on CJ, so we know he's got the physical skills needed, it's just a matter of him getting the Patriots system. I'm not worried at this point, and I find it laughable for any of you to actually be worried, this early.

Incidently, I was going to post something about Baker after the Redskins game. He actually kind of impressed me a little, and his development from past seasons is noticable.

I don't understand what you're saying. Merry did not play much against the sSins and Baker did. I was at the game siting behind the D bench.

THe only real PT Merry got was early in the season when Harrison was out and we were low on bodies. Schmessy says it better than I, "I'm not saying he's expected to beat out Harrison, Wilson or Sanders in his rookie year.

But to be behind ANYONE else other than those three as a 1st rounder is DEFINITELY an underperformance of expectations.

The bar isn't all that high in this situation for a 1st rounder to be the #4 at Safety, in fact, it's pretty low"

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't understand what you're saying. Merry did not play much against the sSins and Baker did. I was at the game siting behind the D bench.

THe only real PT Merry got was early in the season when Harrison was out and we were low on bodies. Schmessy says it better than I, "I'm not saying he's expected to beat out Harrison, Wilson or Sanders in his rookie year.

But to be behind ANYONE else other than those three as a 1st rounder is DEFINITELY an underperformance of expectations.

The bar isn't all that high in this situation for a 1st rounder to be the #4 at Safety, in fact, it's pretty low"

BM played enough snaps to get run over and carried into the end zone. I don't know what more people want.