Reiss: Arrington to unseat Butler?

[Ring 6]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

I am curious.
So far this season, the average game by the average offense (and this is median, so big games are irrelevant) is about 21 pass completions for about 230 yards.
This board is saying Butler was awful last week.
So, what would a corner have to allow against him to be awful?
How many catches allowed is bad?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

If there were a website that kept track of such stats, it would be a lot easier to make a comparison of what is just mediocre what is poor. A comparison to last season's db stats would be even better as it provides a better sample size upon which to compare stats. Using your eyes it was pretty easy to tell that Butler was getting abused by the Jets though, the same way that Kyle Wilson got abused by the Ravens in week 1.

 

[MustaphaM0nd]

Re: BSPN: change coming at right CB?

I have never understood why we continually pick these midget size CB's?!

Against the Jets...
-both safeties are 30 yards off the LOS
-one doesn't know how to cover yet and one never will
-some of the linebackers couldn't cover a caterpillar

Its hard to see a corner looking good under such conditions.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

It's also the UConn comment. Poster doesn't realize that the guy who played opposite Darius at CB at UConn made the Pro Bowl last year.

Its true.

Butler was touted as this all world CB and one of the best in the draft. Thus far, I dont see what all the press was about. By year # 2 you want to see something positive and now Bulter may lose his job to Arrington.

Whats more is that NE drafted another CB first in the following draft.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

Or Teddy, hell it hasn't even been two years yet. It gets harder and harder to hold your tongue around here.

People hate to hear that NE players suck.

Maroney was a mistake and bust. Butler is heading down that road.

The NE D is screwed if this secondary does not improve soon because the P Mannings and Rothlisbergers in this passing league will have a field day.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

If there were a website that kept track of such stats, it would be a lot easier to make a comparison of what is just mediocre what is poor. A comparison to last season's db stats would be even better as it provides a better sample size upon which to compare stats. Using your eyes it was pretty easy to tell that Butler was getting abused by the Jets though, the same way that Kyle Wilson got abused by the Ravens in week 1.

But thats the thing though. That is a widely held misconception.
He had back to back p.i.s. The first was a bad call, the second uncatchable; a bad p,lay he should have lucked into a no call.
Other than that if you actually review the game film, there were 5 passes completed against him. Those 5 passes totalled about 35 yards, and 3 were thrown in front of him in zone coverage. He allowed 2 catches all day in single coverage. None of the passes completed vs him were more than 10 yards donwfied.
I could understand a statement that he was awful, and/o picked on for one drive, if you count the p.i.s as bad plays vs bad calls. And certianly that indelible memory is why everyone is underrating how he played.
But to say that a corner was terrible, burned, picked on, etc when he allowed 2 catches in man coverage all day, and 3 short passes in front of his zone, is incorrect. A picked on corner has passes deepe than 10 yards thrown at him.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

But thats the thing though. That is a widely held misconception.
He had back to back p.i.s. The first was a bad call, the second uncatchable; a bad p,lay he should have lucked into a no call.
Other than that if you actually review the game film, there were 5 passes completed against him. Those 5 passes totalled about 35 yards, and 3 were thrown in front of him in zone coverage. He allowed 2 catches all day in single coverage. None of the passes completed vs him were more than 10 yards donwfied.
I could understand a statement that he was awful, and/o picked on for one drive, if you count the p.i.s as bad plays vs bad calls. And certianly that indelible memory is why everyone is underrating how he played.
But to say that a corner was terrible, burned, picked on, etc when he allowed 2 catches in man coverage all day, and 3 short passes in front of his zone, is incorrect. A picked on corner has passes deepe than 10 yards thrown at him.

if what you are saying is true, then this team needs to seriously get a pass rush. otherwise, they will keep picking on butler - since he's young he's bound to make 1 or 2 mistakes that will cost them a game. he can make 10 great plays in a row and then give up a 60 yard TD pass that could be a game breaker. butler is not of the caliber (yet) that teams are afraid of him.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

if what you are saying is true, then this team needs to seriously get a pass rush. otherwise, they will keep picking on butler - since he's young he's bound to make 1 or 2 mistakes that will cost them a game. he can make 10 great plays in a row and then give up a 60 yard TD pass that could be a game breaker. butler is not of the caliber (yet) that teams are afraid of him.

Whatin the world are you talking about?
How does allowing 5 catches all for less than 10 yards in an NFL game as a corner, mean you will allow 60 yard TDs?
It seems your standard is that a corner never allows anyone to catch a pass. Thats foolish.
But again, how is FIVE completions considered pciking on a player, in a league where the typical team completes 21 a game?

 

[MustaphaM0nd]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

It's also the UConn comment. Poster doesn't realize that the guy who played opposite Darius at CB at UConn made the Pro Bowl last year.

Tyvon Branch made the probowl???

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

People hate to hear that NE players suck.

Maroney was a mistake and bust. Butler is heading down that road.

The NE D is screwed if this secondary does not improve soon because the P Mannings and Rothlisbergers in this passing league will have a field day.

Everyone said Brace was a bust and now the Cincinnati OL said Brace was a handful and Brace starts against the Jests. So is Brace a bust? Butler has the tools - we have seen that - maybe he needs some seasoning and confidence. Wheatley looked good in pre-season, Crable is now on the 53 man roster, give the guys a little time - BB only keeps them around because they have the tools. If they could not perform they would be gone. The defense is complicated - it takes some a bit longer than others. Patience my PatsFans friends.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

Whatin the world are you talking about?
How does allowing 5 catches all for less than 10 yards in an NFL game as a corner, mean you will allow 60 yard TDs?
It seems your standard is that a corner never allows anyone to catch a pass. Thats foolish.
But again, how is FIVE completions considered pciking on a player, in a league where the typical team completes 21 a game?

i am not ARGUING with you. I believe you when you talk about butler's performance. i am just saying that since he is young they may take advantage of him every once in a while for a big gainer. that's all. as such, both of our young corners could use a pass rush to help them out. if we have no pass rush QBs will pick apart our young secondary until they learn to play the position at a high level.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Butler didn't play well and the refs weren't helping out either with letting Edwards push him around. I'm sure this is just a bump in the road for Butler. I find it hard to believe that the coaches couldn't sit down and watch film with the kid and make some adjustments in his game. There is no way unless Butler is horrendous that he doesn't serve a large role on this team. his speed,leaping ability and all the coaching he already has behind him is a huge reason not to just give up on him.

Boldly, he will start the rest of the season unless Wilhite or someone actually outplays him consistently during practice. I think he will be fine, I'm not letting one bad game blur my opinion for someone's whole career.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

Tyvon Branch made the probowl???

My bad, he made some All-Pro teams, which frankly is a bigger deal these days.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

Its true.

Butler was touted as this all world CB and one of the best in the draft. Thus far, I dont see what all the press was about. By year # 2 you want to see something positive and now Bulter may lose his job to Arrington.

Whats more is that NE drafted another CB first in the following draft.

I follow the draft. He wasn't touted as that by anyone. No one. Most had him as a second round pick.

NE picked another CB? How is that proof of anything? At the time, NE needed another CB. I mean, this is basic stuff.

Did you know Chris Canty was chosen after the Patriots had selected Ty Law??!!

 

[BigMike]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

Everyone said Brace was a bust and now the Cincinnati OL said Brace was a handful and Brace starts against the Jests. So is Brace a bust? Butler has the tools - we have seen that - maybe he needs some seasoning and confidence. Wheatley looked good in pre-season, Crable is now on the 53 man roster, give the guys a little time - BB only keeps them around because they have the tools. If they could not perform they would be gone. The defense is complicated - it takes some a bit longer than others. Patience my PatsFans friends.

"This defense isn't complicated. I played in it! It requires good players doing their job and trusting the other guys around them" Steve DeOssie

 

[PatsChamp88]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

If there were a website that kept track of such stats, it would be a lot easier to make a comparison of what is just mediocre what is poor. A comparison to last season's db stats would be even better as it provides a better sample size upon which to compare stats. Using your eyes it was pretty easy to tell that Butler was getting abused by the Jets though, the same way that Kyle Wilson got abused by the Ravens in week 1.

ProFootballFocus.com

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

ProFootballFocus.com

Looks like it requires a subscription, unfortunately.

 

[PatsChamp88]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

Looks like it requires a subscription, unfortunately.

Yeah it was free last year...

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

BB has made some decisions that were bad. Draft choices, depth chart, game plan, FA signings, contract negotiations are areas one could say, sometimes, "why did he do this"? However, one thing that BB is consistent about is making decisions based on what he believes will give the team the best chance to win. BB is as close to inhumanly unemotional as a coach can get when it comes to decision making. To quote Terminator, "Listen, and understand. BB is out there. He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until......" the perfect winning football decision is made. Football decisions made "out of spite" does not belong in the same sentence with BB. If he starts Arrington over Butler, or anyone else, it is because he believes it gives the team the best chance to be successful. Is it the best decision? There is enough gray area there to make the decision questionable. What is unquestionable is BB will not be making the decision out of spite. Anyone suggesting that BB makes these types of decisions out of spite is, with all due respect, out of step with reality.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Arrington to Unseat Butler?

I follow the draft. He wasn't touted as that by anyone. No one. Most had him as a second round pick.

NE picked another CB? How is that proof of anything? At the time, NE needed another CB. I mean, this is basic stuff.

Did you know Chris Canty was chosen after the Patriots had selected Ty Law??!!

Yes, Butler climbed up the draft board after the combine as some draft day steal. What a joke!

NE needed another CB because Butler has shown nothing. He is only starting because Bodden is out. It easy to see why now after Mark Sanchez looked like Elway abusing him. McCourty jumped over him and was/is starting opposite Bodden.

Butler aint no Ty Law. More like Chris Canty.