Realistic talent evaluation - positions Pats can improve on for 2011

[Deus Irae]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

Not sure where the blame goes but the major theme for at least two of the last three playoff failures has been pressure - the patriots lack of on defense & Brady receiving too much on offense. I'm not sure that this offensive line is not somewhat overrated.

Well, in 2007, Neal got injured during the game, and the TEs were also injured and/or useless as blockers, meaning protection scheming was very limited. Mankins also had what was probably his worst game as a pro, which added to the misery, but we know that Mankins is a hell of a lineman.

In 2009, Welker was lost, so the Ravens were able to attack pretty much at will. Edelman had a lot of catches, but he simply wasn't Welker, and that left the Ravens with only Moss to worry about. Worrying about the deep man and not worrying about short passing meant that the Ravens could tee off on Brady.

In 2010, we just saw Connolly get destroyed.

I don't think it's that the line is overrated. I think it's really been that the line has had no depth. Line up Light/Mankins/Koppen/New RG and/or Neal/Vollmer, with Connolly, Kaczur and a legitimate developing center as backups who don't end up getting called in to start playoff games, and I think we'll all be very happy with the results.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

6 and 7 might be reversed because players like Ryan Kerrigan and Von Miller will be available mid round, but there are a lot of big DEs in that 285 range (Heyward, Bailey, Clayborn) slated for the end of the round.

 

[Manning's Pick 6]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

We just don't use a fullback. One of those old time big power backs (called a fullback when i was a kid) that can block occasionally is another story. short yardage 240 pounder.

Still, we like multiple tight end and receiver sets. I can't see us lining up with two guys behind the QB very much.

And this is a big reason why this team hasn't won in the playoffs in a long time. Aside from New Orleans, look at the teams that have won the SuperBowl this decade. Pittsburgh, the Giants, Tampa, Ravens, & the Pats 3 Super Bowl teams won with power running games and good defences. Even when the Colts won Manning wasn't the reason, it was strong D and a good run game.

The spread offense just doesn't win Super Bowls. Get a fullback, and go back to the '04 style offense where running and play action big plays killed teams. We've lost the last 3 playoff games to teams that ran the ball well. It's time we went back to it.

 

[alvinnf]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

We NEED a fullback. The spread offense has not worked in the playoffs and it is no coincidence that the 3 teams who beat us (Giants, Ravens, Jets) were all run-oriented teams with good defences.

The Pats need to be able to pound the ball in the playoffs which will open up play-action. We got the great tight end now in Gronk, we need a fullback and possibly another talented power RB. Go back to the '04 offense.

Great post..... It's no coincidence that the Jets had 11DB's ready to go in Foxboro. They were daring us to pass and begging us to run. So NE passes the ball 40+ times and runs less than 25 times, Loss. The Coach and the QB need to put the ego's asside and run the f'ing ball. We know it's personal with Cromartie and Rex and all that. You wanna show em what you can do. Win, it speaks for itself.
So I would like to see it adressed like this. OL, DL,OL,DL,OL,DL,OL, so on and so forth.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

And this is a big reason why this team hasn't won in the playoffs in a long time. Aside from New Orleans, look at the teams that have won the SuperBowl this decade. Pittsburgh, the Giants, Tampa, Ravens, & the Pats 3 Super Bowl teams won with power running games and good defences. Even when the Colts won Manning wasn't the reason, it was strong D and a good run game.

The spread offense just doesn't win Super Bowls. Get a fullback, and go back to the '04 style offense where running and play action big plays killed teams. We've lost the last 3 playoff games to teams that ran the ball well. It's time we went back to it.

We used a big TE, Daniel Graham and we had Corey Dillon. We have two big tight ends now.

I agree we had a premier back, but we did not utilize a FB much at all, and when we did it was 217 lb. utility back Patrick Pass.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

Look around the league at what you get when 1 or 2 guys are injured. Teams end up with raw rookies from nowhere or F.A.s other teams were glad to get rid of. It's a position where teams save money. I'm assuming we bring in some talent to compete for starting slots at guard (hopefully opposite Mankins) RT and future C. That leaves a bench of proven NFL players in Connolly, Wendell, Levoir, Kasczur Onnikcantspellhisname, our 4th and 5th picks still bouncing around etc.

Remember, we're talking about bench depth at a position where many teams have none. I'm assuming we acquire a couple starter potential players in that mix.

The following is based upon the assumption Light re-signs for at least a one year deal and Logan Mankins signs a long term contract. I realistically foresee Stephen Neal retiring prior to the commencement of the 2011 NFL Season. If not, you can't seriously rely on Stephen Neal for sixteen games anymore, let alone the playoffs. Dan Connolly is not the solution at right guard. Nick Kaczur is coming off back surgery that he underwent in August. One huge if with Neal another if with Kaczur. The New England Patriots have a huge hole at right offensive guard and that is a top three priority in the 2011 NFL Draft.

Even with Light re-signed for an additional year, again you have the if with Kaczur which leaves Vollmer the only dependable offensive tackle on the roster below the age of 30. The New England Patriots need to draft an offensive tackle no later than the third round since there is always the if that Light completely loses it at the age of 33. Besides, the New England Patriots need to draft the next young starting offensive tackle for the future, whether that is on the right side or left side depends where Vollmer eventually resides on the offensive line.

1st Round OLB or DE
1st Round OG
2nd Round OLB or DE
2nd Round OLB or DE or OT
3rd Round OLB or DE or OT
3rd Round OLB or DE or OT

No more than 2 DE or 2 OLB drafted with at least 1 OG and at least 1 OT in the first three rounds.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

The following is based upon the assumption Light re-signs for at least a one year deal and Logan Mankins signs a long term contract. I realistically foresee Stephen Neal retiring prior to the commencement of the 2011 NFL Season. If not, you can't seriously rely on Stephen Neal for sixteen games anymore, let alone the playoffs. Dan Connolly is not the solution at right guard. Nick Kaczur is coming off back surgery that he underwent in August. One huge if with Neal another if with Kaczur. The New England Patriots have a huge hole at right offensive guard and that is a top three priority in the 2011 NFL Draft.

Even with Light re-signed for an additional year, again you have the if with Kaczur which leaves Vollmer the only dependable offensive tackle on the roster below the age of 30. The New England Patriots need to draft an offensive tackle no later than the third round since there is always the if that Light completely loses it at the age of 33. Besides, the New England Patriots need to draft the next young starting offensive tackle for the future, whether that is on the right side or left side depends where Vollmer eventually resides on the offensive line.

1st Round OLB or DE
1st Round OG
2nd Round OLB or DE
2nd Round OLB or DE or OT
3rd Round OLB or DE or OT
3rd Round OLB or DE or OT

No more than 2 DE or 2 OLB drafted with at least 1 OG and at least 1 OT in the first three rounds.

Yeah, I think they sign Mankins and draft or acquire a couple starting quality players.

O Linemen are always injured anyway, so we have depth in the sense I want better starters.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

Yeah, I think they sign Mankins and draft or acquire a couple starting quality players.

O Linemen are always injured anyway, so we have depth in the sense I want better starters.

On top of that, it seems the New England Patriots are cursed with injuries at various positions every damn season!

 

[RayClay]

Re: Realistic talent evaluation

On top of that, it seems the New England Patriots are cursed with injuries at various positions every damn season!

It's part of the game. A big reason our all quality, few stars approach led to Super Bowls in 2003-4.

With a good draft this year, we will have acquired a boatload of good talent in a short time, that should gel into a fantastic team. With out sensible sign the depth first approach we'll likely be loaded for a while.

However, this year we were good enough to win. even though it seems the future will be bright, you have to try and cash in at every opportunity.

Talk about playing with house money though, lol. 14-2 with a lineup of rooks, 2nd year and what seemed like very marginal NFL F.A.