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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Oswlek, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    I hope this doesn't come across as too snobbish or arrogant, but I have to say that I wasn't very impressed with the quality of play this weekend. Amazingly enough, the team that I thought looked the best was.........

    The Giants.

    It has gotten to the point where you don't expect the lower tier NFC teams to look great, but I don't think the AFC teams looked all that much better. Everywhere I turn, I hear someone else rambling on about how great the Jags are or how hot the Chargers are, but they sure as hell looked anything but in their matchups. Anyway, here are my usual semi-lucid thoughts from the weekend.

    * During the final few moments of the SD/TN game when it was apparent to everyone that the Chargers would emerge victorious, I called my football buddy and said, "I guess San Diego didn't get the memo. Shouldn't someone let them know that the Titans stink? Their acting like they just took down a juggernaut out there." I realize that every victory deserves to be cherished, but it almost seemed as if they weren't sure if they were going to win.

    * I keep hearing about how great Phillip Rivers played but I just don't see it. From my vantage point he played like a spastic idiot for the first half and then improved in the second half when TN could no longer mount a pass rush and SD had receivers running 10 yards free of any defenders. Yes, I realize that good pass protection and open receivers are key to any QB's performance, but I just can't see Rivers going on the road and beating any decent team.

    * Further along this line, SD is going to get annihilated next Sunday. This past game was reminicent of their first week's victory over the Bears. It seemed that they emerged with a hard fought victory over a physical opponent, but in reality they played a crap game against a mediocre opponent. TN, without any receivers and with a gimpy running QB, found themselves in the red zone 4 times all after long drives. No way Indy scores less than 35 points against them. Unless the line is in the 20's, Indy is the best bet for the weekend. They are going to kill that team.

    * Watching the Seattle/Wash game my only real thought was, "Is there anyway *both* of these teams can be eliminated this week?"

    * So..... Where was this Jacksonville Juggernaut again? Pitt did everything they could to give that game away and Jax still needed a late 4th down to pull it off. Sure, teams can always play better, but they aren't going to have any late game chances if they play like that on Saturday. I'm still trying to figure out how a supposedly great team can let a team with no running game and a QB in the midst of a near-complete playoff meltdown comeback from a 18 point deficit.

    * I want to touch on Roeth specifically. He was absolutely terrible in the first half. Not only did he have some obvious garbage plays with the ints, but he was almost solely responsible for Jax's sacks and Pitt's ineffective offense. The OL actually played a good game, IMHO, but Ben just stood there waiting and waiting for something to happen. Other than one where he had to scramble to his right almost immediately, he had at least 4 seconds prior to every other take down. I mentioned this in one other thread, but I'll do so again. On one sack Roeth literally rolled into the only defender who had a chance (and who was blocked out of the play if Ben didn't roll into him). On that play, he pumped a couple times despite every single receiver being open! That's right, he scrambled into a sack on a play where he could have thrown it to any receiver on the team. And that was in the second half when he was playing "well". Just a really bad game for him... and they still almost won.

    * Was I the only one to see Jax's LT hold the Pitt defender from getting into the hole on the 4th down scramble?

    * After watching the game my opinion of the Pats/Jags matchup still hasn't changed. IMHO, the Jags don't have the DE's to attack NE's tackle weakness on the OL nor do they have a nickle package that can stop NE from scoring 30 points. Barring a hurricane, a repeat defensive performance like this past one will lead to NE moving the ball up and down the field at will. And the jury is still out if the Jags can pass their way into a high scoring victory if needed. Frankly, I don't see either AFC Dvisional game being all that close.
     
  2. oldskool138

    oldskool138 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I love how the pundits are building up Garrard. Pointing to his high completion percentage and low INT's...but neglect to tell you that he hasn't been the starting QB for the whole season.

    I think he's more of the 9 completion, 2 INT QB that we saw against Pitt. It's no secret that the Pats are going to take away the running game. I don't think Garrard can win the game for Jax considering the QB whose playing on the other team.
     
  3. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think he is a very good QB when he can pick his spots, who has the potential to grow into more. I'm just not sure if he can move his team consistently down the field if NE's offense forces them to ditch the run.

    Part of the problem, in Garrards defense, is loust WRs. They stink.
     
  4. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Good points. The thing that struck me was the fact that when Pittsburgh simply had to hold onto the ball at the end to seal the win, they went away from what was successful in the second half and became conservative. Huh? What kind of predictable play calling was that? They simply needed a new set of downs, and that would have been the end of Jacksonville. Instead, they lined up in run formations and tried the very plays that weren't working all game to put the game away? Talk about broadcasting your intent to the opposing team. That was totally irresponsible by the offensive coordinator or whoever was calling the plays.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  5. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I'd agree. I believe the Jaguars need the running game for their passing game to be successful. I also think that BB will have a field day on him.
     
  6. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Nice Job, Owl. You saved me a lot of time. My only complaint is that you did the job better than I could have. ;)

    BTW- I think you hit the nail on the head with the Jags. If they can't find a way to put pressure on the Pats up the middle (which NO ONE has to date) or from the outside (which is one of THEIR weaknesses); Brady will have all the time he needs to throw INTO a Defensive Backfield that has one good player.

    On the other side I think the Pats will have 8 men in the box on ALL downs and keep constant pressure on their QB, showing him defenses that he hasn't seen all year.

    The key match up IMHO is at the HC position. DelRio is a good coach, whose best asset is his leadership. Getting rid of Leftwich and stick with Garrad was perhaps the best and most gutsy personel decision of the year.... which ended up being right. However he has NEVER been the brightest bulb in the lot and he WILL be matching wits with a better man/staff.
     
  7. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly. You move the ball seemingly at will for the entire 4th quarter through the air with a little run mixed in. So what do you do when you need a 1st down to run out the clock? Of course you come out in a power formation and play into the opponents strengths. Make sense to me.

    But then again what do you expect from a guy who decides to go for a two point conversion with over 10 minutes left in the game. Now some people might agree with the initial decision to go for it, but after the penalty it was absolutely moronic to go for it from the 11 or 12 yard line. And of course they end up losing by the two conversion failures. Fitting, I guess.:rolleyes:
     
  8. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    Agree with almost all these comments. SD is going to get "blowed out". Final score probably 30-16. Note for Jax lovers: The Jag defense STINKS. Against Qbs who have any kind of resume the Jags allowed 29 points per game this season. Final score: Pats 30-14.

    As far as Rothlisberger, IMO he was superhuman this season overcoming horrendous coaching by Tomlin and Arians. The turtling playcalling by Arians at game's end will haunt the Steeler franchise for a very long time. Tomlin assumes he will get another chance at a home playoff game. With an eroding O-line, a trash O-coordinator, a declining defensive line and a 70 year old D-coordinator, Pittsburgh was winning on fumes from Cowher's old regime this season. Once Lebeau is gone, Rothlesberger will be on his own surrounded by maladroit factotums. IMO he is a HOF Qb, and next to Brady I would rather have him than any other playoff QB.
     
  9. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I was pretty thrilled with the weekend games as it produced $150 big ones for me. Took the Chargers and -10 because, hey its the Titans. I agree Rivers did nothing to gather praise from the announcers. He hit a couple of WIDE open receivers and was excused on that long interception? They held LT to 42 yards. Good luck next week.
    Took Seattle over the Skins. Surprised the Skins stayed in it for that long. Of course, everyone will be talking up Seattle because they crushed the Skins, the Skins.
    Took the Steelers +3 against the Jags. Now tell me again how this Jag team is going to keep up with the Patriots. They have the 12th rated defense. Teams ahead of them include; the Colts, Cowboys, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Redskins and Eagles. I'm hoping the Patriots win the coin flip and see how they play from behind.
     
  10. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good post owl,

    The level of play is something I made a point about, when talking to my brother this weekend. There is clearly two levels of play in the NFL, NE and Indy - then everyone else. These two teams hardly ever kill themselves with stupid plays, penalties or just outright dumb decisions from their coaches. It is clear that they are the two best coached football teams in the league.
     
  11. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    I had no problem with the original call for the 2 pointer, but, like you, I thought it was stupid to go for it from the 12.

    I also thought the fade plays werre moronic as well. Seriously, I think I only see the fade work on out of every 3-4 times. If you only have to go 2 yards and only have one shot, why are you using a play that decreases your odds of success?
     
  12. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    I like Ben and he was the reason I picked Pitt to win, but I have to call a spade a spade. Unless the reason he kept overlooking open receivers was bed preperation by the coaches, he made about 30 mistakes in that game.
     
  13. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    "No way Indy scores less than 35 points against them. Unless the line is in the 20's, Indy is the best bet for the weekend"

    care to wager on either of these things?
     
  14. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    Aren't you an Indy fan?

    I'm not about to make a financial wager with an anonymous person on a message board, but I am willing to make a sig bet or something the like.

    The line right now are Indy -8.5. I'm even willing to increase this to 10 points. I will take Indy and give the 10 points. What is the wager?
     
  15. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    no, I'm a Pats fan, but since I dare give objective opinions sometimes, some people on here think I'm not
     
  16. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Apparently not:

     
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great points, couldn't agree more. The Giants are the only team that seemed to learn something in the process of playing us this season. Maybe because they didn't come to the fray full of delusions. They approached it as a challenge and an opportunity to test themselves against the best. They behaved like football players, something Tom hasn't otherwise been able to get them to do in his tenure.

    I think I'll watch the Seattle - GB game this weekend only to see which one of Holmgren's protoges demons is his undoing. God, you just can't beat the Favre outta some of these guys. Holmgren left GB because he couldn't change the original. Watching the Pittsburgh game just reinforced by belief that Cowher decided to take his sabatical for much the same reason. Holmgren's mistake was taking the gunslinger's backup with him when he left...exposure to Favre is like a bad acid flashback that can and will haunt you for the rest of your life. I wouldn't even touch a QB who ever had his poster in his room.

    Classy said last night that his QB showed poise yesterday. I've never seen a RB call a TO because his QB was about to take a delay of game. About the only thing Classy did right yesterday was play to the whistle on one snap. Most of the rest of the time he was pouting. Until they beat the system vs a QB-less team. It took a pick 6 from Peyton (reeling from our visit and an 29 yard whiff from Adam for the classies to topple the Colts on the road

    As for the JAGS, Del Rio made the right decision ashcanning Leftwich - if Fisher has any sense he won't wait 4 years. That said, the team Jack built to beat the Colts, who didn't, isn't going to beat the team that BB built to beat the Colts, who did. Garrard is a good mid level game manager. He's the biggest improvement to the JAGS team since we last saw them here. The Patriots improvements since we last saw them here are a lot more dramatic. They have a stout front 4, but they rely on size over speed and guile or scheme. Brady will have little trouble countering their size or what lines up behind it. Ben's had some bad games in his career - it took one of his top 5 worst ever performances to vault the JAGS to the next level.

    If we cannot stifle the run, and we don't have to stop it altogether, or we give up a couple of huge returns, or broken plays, this could be close game. For a while. Ditto the Colts/Classies if Manning has rusted up after 3 weeks on the competitive shelf.
     
  18. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    I don't agree with the Rthlsbrgr love here. He's definitely a Top 10 QB w/o question but that's because there are two critical shortages in the NFL today hurting the game. First off is QB, many of the heir apparents to the Top 5 Manning echelon have flamed out and had bad years. Guys like Palmer and Brees. I still think they're good QBs despite this season but other than Romo there's a dearth of young really good QBs that look to step up into Top 5 territory. All 3 of our division rivals have young QBs that have performed way below par.

    Secondly and more subtly, there's a deficiency of top quality HCs. Lots of mismanagement of players, team attitudes and gametime decisions. I do think that the not-too-bright Del Rio made a gutsy and insightful decision to tube Lfwich. Maybe it's always been that way with HCs or maybe I'm spoiled by watching BB so closely.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The only way Ben gets to the HOF is if he buys a ticket or the Steelers somehow manage to win one for the other thumb in spite of him...

    Tomlin's downfall was buying into Ben. Cowher left because he knew this was coming. Wisenhut too. Ben's ego writes checks his talent can't cash because he eschews the mental aspect of the game while yearning to be a Brady-esque hero. Not sure if it's a won't or a can't focus. He just doesn't consistently make quick or good decisions, and considering his off field track record my gut says he probably lacks the capacity to. Like most gunslingers he will have his days. Unfortunately they will rarely match up with team need. Sometimes the team will overcome his worst days, but that will only be enough if they return to their roots as a run first team with a smashmouth D. He has the requisite talent to win with a well managed team. Cowher managed him well through two seasons, but it wasn't easy and with each successful season he demanded more autonomy. Saturday is what it ultimately gets you when you give Ben what he wants. The Rooney's believe it's easier to identify a young HC than a franchise QB - and that has been the case in the past in Pittsburgh. The Rooney's made a choice, and the Steeler fans will have to live with it.

    And just wanted to add, since you said next to Brady, BB wouldn't touch Ben with a ten foot pole. He's reckless, he's not cerebral, and he makes the same damn mistakes over and over.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  20. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    Agree w/most points here. On the Pittsburgh qb, I'd say he is a generally solid, good qb in a league where most of the time that gets the job done. (I do have to chuckle at some Pittsburgh fans comments someone posted here recently comparing him to Brady..."I'd take Ben, and it's really not that close." Hoo boy.)

    Oh, and to the pats fan above, you were called out on your "wager" idea by the OP.....time to put up or shut up, I'd say.
     
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