Random WC Weekend Thoughts

[PonyExpress]

The only way Ben gets to the HOF is if he buys a ticket or the Steelers somehow manage to win one for the other thumb in spite of him...

In 2007, Roethlisberger had a 104 Qb rating, threw 32 TDs and 12 INTs with a wretched O-line and bad coaching. He was the youngest QB ever to win a SB, and if not for his accident would have the highest regular season QB rating in NFL history, and may end up with it anyway. Right now he is #5 behind only Brady, Manning, Young and Warner. Roethlisberger has more game winning drives since he entered the NFL than any other NFL QB. He has more perfect passer rating games than any other active QB. He won 15 straight starts as a rookie. His career yards per attempt is the highest in modern NFL history. He has never had a losing season. His winning % as a starter is second only to Brady. At the age of 25 he has more playoff victories than any Qb in the NFL other than Favre, Brady and Manning. Roethlisberger is a franchise Qb. If Roethlisberger continues to play at this level he is a HOF lock.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Rthlsbrgr needs to show up with those gaudy stats in a playoff game. Look at his last 2 playoff performances.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

BTW- I think you hit the nail on the head with the Jags. If they can't find a way to put pressure on the Pats up the middle (which NO ONE has to date) or from the outside (which is one of THEIR weaknesses); Brady will have all the time he needs to throw INTO a Defensive Backfield that has one good player.

On the other side I think the Pats will have 8 men in the box on ALL downs and keep constant pressure on their QB, showing him defenses that he hasn't seen all year.

This pretty much sums up Saturday night, especially the 8 men in the box part. There's not a WR on Jax that will merit a double-team, so the Pats can sell out to stop the run and dare Garrard to beat them. If Jax breaks 14, I'll be surprised.

No Stroud and a hobbled Henderson means the Pats should give Brady a pocket to step into. That Jax secondary is awful after Mathis. Even if Mathis shuts down Moss, Welker, Gaffney and Stallworth should have huge nights. Jax better pray for 40MPH winds.

Regards,
Chris

 

[PonyExpress]

Rthlsbrgr needs to show up with those gaudy stats in a playoff game. Look at his last 2 playoff performances.

I guess you missed the playoff games vs. Cinci, Indy and Denver.

 

[FibSeq13478]

Unless the reason he kept overlooking open receivers was bed preperation by the coaches

Are you suggesting Ben is sleeping with coaches?

I agree with your point about Ben's play in that game. It looked like he had no confidence in the line.

 

[aluminum seats]

Jax better pray for 40MPH winds.

FWIW this far out, the weather looks fine for Saturday.......

 

[makewayhomer]

In 2007, Roethlisberger had a 104 Qb rating, threw 32 TDs and 12 INTs with a wretched O-line and bad coaching. He was the youngest QB ever to win a SB, and if not for his accident would have the highest regular season QB rating in NFL history, and may end up with it anyway. Right now he is #5 behind only Brady, Manning, Young and Warner. Roethlisberger has more game winning drives since he entered the NFL than any other NFL QB. He has more perfect passer rating games than any other active QB. He won 15 straight starts as a rookie. His career yards per attempt is the highest in modern NFL history. He has never had a losing season. His winning % as a starter is second only to Brady. At the age of 25 he has more playoff victories than any Qb in the NFL other than Favre, Brady and Manning. Roethlisberger is a franchise Qb. If Roethlisberger continues to play at this level he is a HOF lock.

QB rating is a flawed metric for comparing QB's from one generation to the next. unless you think that Chad Pennington is better than Bart Starr or Johnny Unitas

edit: also in general, it's a pretty flawed metric

double edit: all that said, he is a very good, top 10 QB. after Manning & Brady, I think it's pretty close between Brees, Palmer, Roeth, Bulger, Romo

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I guess you missed the playoff games vs. Cinci, Indy and Denver.

Old news. Last 2 playoff games, how did Rthlsbrgr perform?
Against JAX he'd slowed down in pocket and rollout mobility.
I have him a Top 10, but HOF color me seriously skeptical.

 

[wpdougie2180]

I agree withe the OP, Jax scored 10 points if it wasn't for Roethlisberger's first half & the brain fart by the coaching staff that game isn't close. And it was Harrison that got held on the forth down run by Garrard. But that wouldn't have been necessary if Pittsburgh doesn't call a QB sweep on 3rd & 7 and then call back to back Safety blitzs by Polumalu(sp?) on 3rd and 4th down

 

[PrairiePat]

* Was I the only one to see Jax's LT hold the Pitt defender from getting into the hole on the 4th down scramble?

A blatant missed call by the refs. Absolutely. The LT (#69) held the Pitts DE outside while Garrard cut up into the hole. It must be very frustrating to the Pitts DL, because they stayed at home on that play (almost LOOKING for the QB draw it seemed), only to be yanked out of the hole by the OT. Sheesh. If Jacksonville is allowed to hold like that against us this weekend, we're going to have trouble stopping anything...

 

[PonyExpress]

Old news. Last 2 playoff games, how did Rthlsbrgr perform?
Against JAX he'd slowed down in pocket and rollout mobility.
I have him a Top 10, but HOF color me seriously skeptical.

He won one and lost one. Cherry pick any Qb's playoff performances and you'll get a mixed bag.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

He won one and lost one. Cherry pick any Qb's playoff performances and you'll get a mixed bag.

He did not "win" the SB. He was abyssmal, a 22 rating since you're absorbed with QBratings. The team and possibly the refs carried him to victory.

The issue is the trend in big game performances over the years. Not HOF level.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I guess you missed the playoff games vs. Cinci, Indy and Denver.

When the Chin and Whisenhut had him firrmly under control. He was chafing even then, and even after he all but lost them the thumb ring...

Cowher struggled with what to do with Ben. He didn't want to stifle his spirit, but he knew better than to give in to that ego. Made his decision to take a sabatical relatively easy. Much like Drewpie, Ben was relieved to be out from under those two old controlling farts. He wanted two new impressionable guys he perceives rank on to manipulate. There has been more than one game this season where Tomlin looked like he realized he might have been hoodwinked, but they pulled them out or won the next week and he just avoided seriously contemplating that possibility.

Gonna be a long offseason.

 

[PonyExpress]

He did not "win" the SB. He was abyssmal, a 22 rating since you're absorbed with QBratings. The team and possibly the refs carried him to victory.

The issue is the trend in big game performances over the years. Not HOF level.

In the playoffs, a win is a win. Interesting that when "QB ratings" fit your argument, you put stock in them. When they don't you ignore them. I understand: You don't like Roethlisberger. But there is no objective measure by which you can deny him elite status. None.

 

[mgcolby]

A blatant missed call by the refs. Absolutely. The LT (#69) held the Pitts DE outside while Garrard cut up into the hole. It must be very frustrating to the Pitts DL, because they stayed at home on that play (almost LOOKING for the QB draw it seemed), only to be yanked out of the hole by the OT. Sheesh. If Jacksonville is allowed to hold like that against us this weekend, we're going to have trouble stopping anything...

Everyone is focused on that play, but completely ignore the horrible PI call in the end zone, that went against Jax on 4th down. It should have been called on Ward for one of several infractions. Take away that bad call and the Jags don't need that 4th and 2 or the FG to win. It goes both ways and the officiating in general sucked in that game.

 

[makewayhomer]

But there is no objective measure by which you can deny him elite status. None.

DPAR is 100% objective. it does have 1 shortcoming, in that a players ranking is affected by the talent around him. ie a good QB with great talent around him will put up better numbers than a good QB with bad talent around. but, this is the same problem that exists with QB rating, TD's, Yards Thrown, etc etc

anyways, Roethlis. ranked 9th in DPAR this year, 14th last year, and 8th the year before that.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php

 

[Oswlek]

DPAR is 100% objective. it does have 1 shortcoming, in that a players ranking is affected by the talent around him. ie a good QB with great talent around him will put up better numbers than a good QB with bad talent around. but, this is the same problem that exists with QB rating, TD's, Yards Thrown, etc etc

anyways, Roethlis. ranked 9th in DPAR this year, 14th last year, and 8th the year before that.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php

DPAR is cummulative. DVOA is the proper measure.

2004 - 3
2005 - 3
2006 - 15
2007 - 6

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

In the playoffs, a win is a win. Interesting that when "QB ratings" fit your argument, you put stock in them. When they don't you ignore them. I understand: You don't like Roethlisberger. But there is no objective measure by which you can deny him elite status. None.

Nice job making stuff up. Classic strawperson.
I've never held much stock in QB ratings as a serious measure. You're the one who led with that mantra. Now YOU are the one switching the measurement stick.
And more making stuff up saying I don't like Rthlsbrgr. I complemented him several times in discussions with Pitt fans here and listed him as a Top 10 QB in the NFL. I'll type really slowly one more time so you can get my point correctly. I said...He's...not...HOF...worthy.

I admit that I do credit QBs considerably with Ws, but you would need to be a total Rthlsbrgr rump swab to credit him with a W with that abyssmal choke of a performance. The SB game choke.

 

[makewayhomer]

DPAR is cummulative. DVOA is the proper measure.

well, it depends what your are trying to measure. there are those that argue that staying healthy is a skill, so DPAR should be used. also, since DPAR represents actual value * playing time, it can be more useful in certain situations.

anyways, they can both be used

a guy like Roeth will have a higher DVOA than DPAR b/c his offense is so run oriented that he added less total value than a QB who, on a per play basis, was better

 

[Oswlek]

well, it depends what your are trying to measure. there are those that argue that staying healthy is a skill, so DPAR should be used. also, since DPAR represents actual value * playing time, it can be more useful in certain situations.

anyways, they can both be used

It has nothing to do with health, it has to do with attempts.

A great performance for 25 attempts will grade out about the same as a decent performance with 45 attempts.