Question for Aqua4Ever04

[Keegs]

In your other ridiculous thread where you compare Sullivan's impact on our team to Ricky williams' impact on the Dolphins, you said....

The Patriots will win 10 Games.
The Dolphins will win 11 Games.

I don't care how you came up with the Dolphin win number but i am curious about the pats number.

What on earth makes you think the pats will win only 10 games????

Last year we would have won 11 if our backups didn't barely lose to your phins. The pats won 10 games last year with all those injuries and Brady carrying the team on his shoulders. Comon, Heath Evans started at running back a few games and secondary was a revolving door of inadequate cornerbacks and Strong Safeties for the most part.
Add to all of that the fact that the Pats had probably the most difficult schedule in the league last year. And look what Brady does, when the team is mangled and its up to him to carry it he does. He shines under pressure and is great when he needs to play his best.

You honestly think this team will win less than 11 games?? are you nuts??

IF they same injuries occur, the pats will win at least 11 based on the experience gained, Brady's improvements and the fact that our schedule appears to be pretty easy.

so, did you say that to get a rise out of pats fans???

OR

do you really believe it?

I don't know which is worse but both are annoying.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

good post Keegs! Aqua is delusional. Pats will win at least 11 games this year. People don't understand that during the Dolphins "6 game winning streak" they played 4 bad teams, one team with backups after halftime and the choke artist Chargers. Note to Dolphin fans: No one cares about a six game winning streak when you don't make the playoffs. Make the playoffs, then we will take you guys seriously!

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Since you guys probably aren't smart enough to scroll over to another thread to read my view, I'll post it here too.

But first, have you been under a rock this off-season? Do you not know who the Pats have lost? A huge peice of that front 7 is gone, your most clutch playoff performer at WR is gone and your big time kicker is gone. Those 3 were all HUGE peices of your sucsess over the years. Who did you add in the off-season? And don't tell me Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney because they both will be very good players, but won't do a whole lot this year. You guys are just so hard headed, you don't care to look at how huge those 3 losses are. You also lost one of your staples on the Oline in Tom Ashworth as well. Oh and I almost forgot, Dieon Branch is holding out, let me know how that turns out.

good post Keegs! Aqua is delusional. Pats will win at least 11 games this year. People don't understand that during the Dolphins "6 game winning streak" they played 4 bad teams, one team with backups after halftime and the choke artist Chargers. Note to Dolphin fans: No one cares about a six game winning streak when you don't make the playoffs. Make the playoffs, then we will take you guys seriously!

Well here's my reply to THEARCHIVES or the moron who doesn't understand anything other than the New England Patriots.

People don't care about a 6 game winning streak? When this team was 1 bad fumble from winning the division. People do take notice of stuff like that just not you because all you know is Patriots football. Do yourself and everyone else a favor, and open your eyes to the rest of the NFL. You're the one who is delusional you giant d***** bag!

And you call my argument dumb lol. We got lucky against San Diego? Umm ok?? If we got lucky in that game, then you got very lucky the first time you played us. If not for that McMichael fumble late in the first half, we would have liekly been up 14-0 or at worst 10-0 heading into the locker rooms. But instead you guys got a field goal out of it making it a 7-3 contest. You guys won by 7 when we failed to punch it in deep in the red zone. You wanna talk about getting lucky? Look at that game my friend, which essentially was the difference in who won the division.

As for your "gift" at the end of the season. The Dolphins were beating up on your starters pretty good too as I recall. Then BB pulled them out, and don't you think that maybe took just a little bit out of the Fins sails?

You say how close our ball games were during that 6 game streak but think about this. There were 3 or 4 other games that we lost that we very easily could have won. For example, our first game against you which I already explained. Our first game against Buffalo, Frerotte had 2 INTs in the Buffalo end zone and Ronnie Brown fumbled in the red zone with under a minute to go down by 6. Thirdly, the game against Atlanta, Frerotte had 2 more turnovers in the red zone. The second one came at the Falcons 5 yard line with a minute to go trailing by 7. So with Culpepper, those 3 games are without a doubt wins!

So don't tell me my argument is dumb because the Fins are a vastly improved team and will kick the s*** out of the Pats two times this year and run away with the AFC East. You guys just don't see anything other New England Patriots football and it really scews your vision on the rest of the league/division. If you think the Fins are another year away, you're a moron!

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

A huge peice of that front 7 is gone, your most clutch playoff performer at WR is gone and your big time kicker is gone.

If you were referring to Branch with that comment, he is hardly "gone". Under contract for one more year right now.

The Fin's have improved on paper, and will likely be improved overall if Brown can carry the load without RW, the OL steps it up a notch, and Pep regains pre-injury mobility. The Patriots lost some big named players, but still retain the winning formulas needed to defend the AFCE title, as well the personel required to be very competitive if healthy.

Personally, I think if things mesh for both teams and they maintain a very low injury situation, you could see the division still up in the air by week 14. It could get pretty interesting with the majority of our division games being in the first half of the season, and the Dolphins having 3 AFCE games in the final 4 weeks.

But only an idiot would try to predict what the upcoming season holds eh?

 

[Keegs]

Didn't really answer my question.

Patriots have losses every offseason. Willie does hurt but he wasn't as big of an impact as everyone made him out to be. People who always doubt the Pats act like we lost the best defensive player we have and that isn't the case. I don't even know where i would rank him on our D last year. There are numerous players on this defense that are more valuable in my opinion than Willie; Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour, Vrabel, healthy Cornerbacks..... and i might be missing more.

Givens was a good clutch performer but there are times he was needed and didn't show up. LIke the Denver regular season game when he dropped a 4th down pass and ruined our comeback. I could have caught that ball. I've seen him make great catches but drop easy one as well, WE DID NOT LOSE JERRY RICE. This is no more significant than Seattle losing Joe Jurevicious, yet i don't hear about their team being screwed. Granted they did sign Burleson and appear to have more Receivers than us, but we will sign another before the season starts, one way or the other. We might not even need to.

Now to Vinatieri. This guy was valuable when it mattered of course, but his leg strength is an issue now.... look at last season and the jacksonville game, they didn't trust this guy kicking anything over 45 yards. His last "big kick" that i can remember is against Carolina in the Superbowl, and that is after he almost lost it for us by missing 2 prior field goals and brady saved his ass. This is yet another player that Pats doubters get excited about and his value to our team is now bein embelished. I didn't think it was possible but the stuff i hear from non-pats fans about this kicker is a little much. It appears he got better just by leaving the team, and i still cant figure out how he will make the colts better.

I don't consider these 3 losses that bad at all. Losing Lawyer and Ty Law pissed me off more.

I was hoping your post that was supposed to prove me wrong would have focused more on what i said about how our schedule this year is significantly easier and if you could touch upon the issue of injuries. We lost so many players last year, the 3 free agent losses that you claim were huge seem small in comparison. I don't think you realize how beat up this team was......
Look it up, then come back and talk to me...

then explain, HOW they will win less than 11 games.

 

[Keegs]

a couple more things....

Deion holding out doesn't mean anything right now for us. Just another thing that will be taken care of when it is taken care of ... we hae nothing to worry about.

Yeah seymour held out before, how did that work out?

In my opinion, this offensive line has great depth and the loss of Ashworth barely makes a difference. Other pats fans here im sure will disagree with me but Ashworth leaving doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

If you were referring to Branch with that comment, he is hardly "gone". Under contract for one more year right now.

The Fin's have improved on paper, and will likely be improved overall if Brown can carry the load without RW, the OL steps it up a notch, and Pep regains pre-injury mobility. The Patriots lost some big named players, but still retain the winning formulas needed to defend the AFCE title, as well the personel required to be very competitive if healthy.

Personally, I think if things mesh for both teams and they maintain a very low injury situation, you could see the division still up in the air by week 14. It could get pretty interesting with the majority of our division games being in the first half of the season, and the Dolphins having 3 AFCE games in the final 4 weeks.

But only an idiot would try to predict what the upcoming season holds eh?

Very good post, I agree and it really should be a good race. I still see Miami finally getting the better of it though. You guys have to remember we no longer have Wann-stache around here making decions. Saban brings a whole new attitude and we don't have to settle for being a "good" football team any more.

Oh and for the record, I was refering to Givens, I read on ESPN that he scored in 6 consecutive playoff games for the Pats at one point of their run.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Keegs, thank you for the calm, cool and collected reply. It's much nicer to deal with someone when they actully take time to explain themselves.

You make a lot of good points and obviously the best being the injury bug that bit you last year. But the losses still make me believe your team is weaker. Adam Vinatieri is a great kicker, there is no doubting that. And if you think that Martin Gramatica can do the same job, you're kidding yourself.

I really like drafting Chad Jackson (actully I hate it because he is a good player .) But I certainly don't think he is at the level that Givens is at. Your offense was still very good last year, and probably the best it has been in your whole run. It really had to be for you to stay in it with your depleted secondary. Tom Brady was nothing short of brilliant last year and I thought he deserved the MVP trophy. I don't think he will come back and be that good again this year.

Now for your defense, yes the loss of Willie has been discussed and a lot of you guys think he can easily be replaced. I however think differntly. He was a very valuable peice to that brilliant 3-4 BB runs. He was great at blitzing from the linebacker spot, or stopping the run on the DL. Yes you still ahve Vrable, Bruschi and Seymore, but like it or not, losing McGinnest will have an impact.

I think you guys will win abour 10 or 11 games based on all of this and I think the Fins are in that same exact boat. As long as C-pep comes back and returns to form, the sky is really the limit for this team. One addition I didn't mention was Fred Beasley. Ronnie Brown and he have really hit it off in the OTAs and i expect a huge year out of Brown and expect Beasley to be in the frame on many of Brown's big runs making huge blocks.

 

[Keegs]

Keegs, thank you for the calm, cool and collected reply. It's much nicer to deal with someone when they actully take time to explain themselves.

You make a lot of good points and obviously the best being the injury bug that bit you last year. But the losses still make me believe your team is weaker. Adam Vinatieri is a great kicker, there is no doubting that. And if you think that Martin Gramatica can do the same job, you're kidding yourself.

I really like drafting Chad Jackson (actully I hate it because he is a good player .) But I certainly don't think he is at the level that Givens is at. Your offense was still very good last year, and probably the best it has been in your whole run. It really had to be for you to stay in it with your depleted secondary. Tom Brady was nothing short of brilliant last year and I thought he deserved the MVP trophy. I don't think he will come back and be that good again this year.

Now for your defense, yes the loss of Willie has been discussed and a lot of you guys think he can easily be replaced. I however think differntly. He was a very valuable peice to that brilliant 3-4 BB runs. He was great at blitzing from the linebacker spot, or stopping the run on the DL. Yes you still ahve Vrable, Bruschi and Seymore, but like it or not, losing McGinnest will have an impact.

I think you guys will win abour 10 or 11 games based on all of this and I think the Fins are in that same exact boat. As long as C-pep comes back and returns to form, the sky is really the limit for this team. One addition I didn't mention was Fred Beasley. Ronnie Brown and he have really hit it off in the OTAs and i expect a huge year out of Brown and expect Beasley to be in the frame on many of Brown's big runs making huge blocks.

well im expecting a big year out of Sullivan.

 

[pats1]

Doesn't all this from Aqua4Ever04 belong in the Interleague forum? He got all obnoxious and posted it in here all the sudden, which really irks me.

 

[drpatriot]

Comments in red below.

You make a lot of good points and obviously the best being the injury bug that bit you last year. But the losses still make me believe your team is weaker. Adam Vinatieri is a great kicker, there is no doubting that. And if you think that Martin Gramatica can do the same job, you're kidding yourself.

We drafted a kicker, Stephen Gostkowski, in the fourth round in case Gramatica isn't good enough. We figure that at least one of the them will be adequate. In today's game, kickers are good enough that the difference between having an adequate kicker (one of the two) and a good kicker (Vinatieri in 2004) is much smaller than it used to be.

I really like drafting Chad Jackson (actully I hate it because he is a good player .) But I certainly don't think he is at the level that Givens is at. Your offense was still very good last year, and probably the best it has been in your whole run. It really had to be for you to stay in it with your depleted secondary. Tom Brady was nothing short of brilliant last year and I thought he deserved the MVP trophy. I don't think he will come back and be that good again this year.

Chad Jackson won't be expected to play at Givens' level yet, he is a rookie. We're hoping for big things out of our free agent, Reche Caldwell...yes, I know he's done nothing in this league, but he was #1 at San Diego before he injured himself and got buried in the depth chart. To change bases, our tight ends (Ben Watson and Daniel Graham) are, together, one of the best double threats in the league as each has different and equally useful talents. These two (especially Watson) will get more involved in our receiving game with our offensive line being healthy and will more than make up for the loss of Givens, in combination with potential help from Caldwell and Jackson.

Now for your defense, yes the loss of Willie has been discussed and a lot of you guys think he can easily be replaced. I however think differntly. He was a very valuable peice to that brilliant 3-4 BB runs. He was great at blitzing from the linebacker spot, or stopping the run on the DL. Yes you still ahve Vrable, Bruschi and Seymore, but like it or not, losing McGinnest will have an impact.

McGinest was a valuable player on our defense. I will not deny that.However, it was better to lose him a year too early than a year too late, as his age was getting up there pretty quickly. He was a key player in the Jacksonville game (4 1/2 sacks, a playoff record) but the fact is that we will have to replace him. Seeing as the Pats didn't draft anyone until the sixth round, Belichick seems confident that we already have the personnel to replace him. Will they do as good of a job? Maybe, maybe not. We'll see in the regular season.

I think you guys will win abour 10 or 11 games based on all of this and I think the Fins are in that same exact boat. As long as C-pep comes back and returns to form, the sky is really the limit for this team. One addition I didn't mention was Fred Beasley. Ronnie Brown and he have really hit it off in the OTAs and i expect a huge year out of Brown and expect Beasley to be in the frame on many of Brown's big runs making huge blocks.

Though I think that there is a lot of unfounded faith in Culpeper (he went somewhere around 2-7 with the Vikings before he got injured), I agree that the running game should be fantastic for the Dolphins this year. The key for the Dolphins offense, though, is Culpepper developing a connection with Chris Chambers, who will be his #1 receiver. If this can't happen, I would expect an 8-8 or 9-7 team if the aging defense can hold up its end of the bargain. I think that by saying both teams will win 10 or 11 games if they are both up to par is discounting both the Pats and the Fins. Looking at our schedule (NFC North, AFC South, Jets and Bills, each other, two others), it seems that a pessimistic view would have the Pats going 12-4 (with losses to Denver, Cinicinatti, Miami (once) and Chicago) and the Fins going 11-5 (with losses to Pittsburgh, New England (once), Chicago, Jacksonville and Indianapolis) if both teams perform as well as well as they can. I expect the 2nd place in the division will probably make the playoffs on a wildcard like Jacksonville did last year if they both play as well as they potentially can. Either way, it could end up being a tight division race.

 

[QuiGon]

Who did you add in the off-season?

We added one of the best 2ndary men in the league, a top notch LBer (with a great clubhouse presence) and a future Hall of Fame RB. Their names are Rodney Harrison, Tedy Bruschi and Corey Dillon.

 

[pats1]

Since you guys probably aren't smart enough

You're the one who is delusional you giant d***** bag!

without a doubt wins!

will kick the s*** out of the Pats

you're a moron!

And this is why I "respect" Dolphins fans.

 

[Flying Fungi]

a--training camp cannot begin soon enough

b--with the onset of camp, it is my wish that threads like this are either never started, or buried quickly...this is the sort of garbage that diminishes the quality of the forum...

 

[Remix 6]

lol guys when has Givens been our playoff most clutch performer? All hes done is scored TDs for 7 straight games but how many games over 100? Most clutch WR in playoffs is currently Branch and has been Branch.

McGinest..im sorry..but we dont overpay anyone and hes aging.i would have loved him back but if BB let him go..hes got something good on his mind. Vinatieri..okay..guess we start with a rookie. Maroney and Jackson wont do much? Jackson is likely to start where Givens has..he looks better than Givens overall..more speed..similar height .. Givens is stronger but Jackson ism ore a playmaker. Maroney..wont be what Williams-Brown had in carry ratio but it will be similar..Maroney will get the ball..receiving..running anyhow.

Considering our weakness last year overall was leadership..we found Hawkins to round up our guys in secondary and get them straight. Howd we do rest of season when Hawkins became the leader? Imagine the leadership when Rodney is back.

Our OL got bigger .. better.. healthier with Koppen and Light coming back.

2 good WRs is better than 1 good WR. So Jackson + Caldwell seem like they will do fine..fill in fine and perform well.

Watson is ready for a breakout season.

Our front 3 guys are very good and young lead by Seymour.

Our LBs are same expect Vrabel will go back to his original OLB spot and Beisel takes inside. Vrabel can fill in nicely for McGinest and Colvin is ready for another great season. So basically Vrabel replaces McGinest. Beisel bulked up..knows system better..we'll see.

Secondary..well Wilson with a leader by his side..is a pro bowl caliber Safety. When hes alone without a veteran .. hes not that good. Hes going to become a leader and will keep our secondary straight.

Samuel is a good physical corner..Hobbs looks like a good upcoming corner.

Our safety spot..does it matter? Give us a leader..TeBucky Jones, Artrell Hawkins, Warfield, Scott anyone who can be vocal in the secondary and were fine. Harrison is due back before mid season.

so aqua..how about you get a life..stop roaming rival boards and posting. give us respect for winning the last so many years while you have struggled. learn to deal with losing..once youi win AFC East .. come back and talk all you want

 

[spacecrime]

You also lost one of your staples on the Oline in Tom Ashworth

So don't tell me my argument is dumb

you're a moron!

Okay, hot shot.

But tell me, last off-season, were you saying how good the Pats were because they had Tom Ashworth?

You've been watching too much ESPN.

Anyway, our loss of WMG was not as severe as your loss of Ogunleye. So are you saying you ca never have a good season again becasue you lost a piece of your front seven? Every year teams lose players and gain players. The difference is that the core patriots team is far stronger than any other in hte AFCE.

How about posting in the inter-league forum from now on. It's where threads like this belong.

 

[QuiGon]

But tell me, last off-season, were you saying how good the Pats were because they had Tom Ashworth?

Tom Ashworth was the anchor of every achievement this franchise has ever had. From the AFC Championship of 1985 to the Super Bowl victory almost 20 years later, he has been the foundation upon which this franchise has been built.

Without Tom Ashworth...? <shudder> 2 wins. If we're lucky.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Well I guess until someone gets through to Keegs there will just be more of this along with his mindless rants and provocative challenges to prove to him how little he knows. It is the level at which he functions. We've all seen it on many of the yahoo boards the lightweight bigmouth fanboy types inhabit all around the net - the my opinion matters types who believe having an opinion not only gives you the right to express it but precludes the rights of others to trump it and clean your clock with an informed opinion.

In a perfect world people seek out the company of others who are like minded to play with. But it's not a perfect world so the little keegers of the world continue to show up intent on bulling their way into an existing situation, disregarding the way it operated for years without them and ignoring the admonishions of those who were here before them - including even the guy who owns the site.

Ian has provided these people with multiple forums on this site, including one for troll baiting, in an effort to maintain their interest while preserving the integrity of the main football board. They just refuse to comply. They're the I come here to do what I please where I please and you cannot make me conform crowd. Wanting to increase traffic on his site puts Ian in the middle I guess. But most of them don't give a hoot about that either because they don't even know Ian exists.

So Keegs, we know you don't put much stock in rules or civility or intelligent discourse unless it's in others dealing with you or answering your questions borne of lack of fundamental understanding of much of what goes on in and around this game by your own admission. But could you do us all this one favor and keep your troll baiting posts (those designed to ilicit a response from either a fan or fans of teams other than the NEP) in the interleague forum where they belong? They won't get nearly as much attention there, or spawn as many individual pissing match spinoffs, which may pose adifferent sort of problem for you, but they get too much attention here and that poses a problem for most of the rest of us. This is a place for reasonably intelligent discussion about the Patriots or football news and info that may impact them in some way among Pat's fans and the select few fans of other teams who show up here with somthing intelligent to offer in perspective - and 'Phins fans like Aquaboy by and large don't provide that. What they think abuot us has no bearing on our season. The interleague forum is where Ian has requested you spar with them if you so choose.

 

[mavfan2390]

. Adam Vinatieri is a great kicker, there is no doubting that. And if you think that Martin Gramatica can do the same job, you're kidding yourself.

Vinateri was clutch, no doubt, but he stank during the regular season. For his career he averaged 81% kicking, and last season, his kicking was even lower. For comparison purposes, there were 15 people with better fg% during the regular season. We'll see how the "ghost" does during the playoffs, but I'm sure he can match Vinateri's performance in the regular season.

Givens is a big loss, but a stronger running game, and up and coming players Ben Watson, Chad Jackson, and Reche Caldewell will more then make up for it. Not to mention, with a stronger line, Graham will be more of a factor, and Brady will have more time then last year. (And Brady will be healthy he just had surgery for sports hernia).

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Comments in red below.

The Pats may lose 4 games this season, BUT THE DENVER GAME WILL NOT BE ONE OF THEM!

Count on it!

As for Miami, I think they'll be closer to Buffalo than to the Pats.

Adam V was the 17th ranked kicker last year, and with anything over 40 yards, it was a case of "there she goes, on a wing and a prayer".

Willie McG would have been a spot player for the Pats this year. Not to take away from his record-setting performance against the Jags in last year's playoff, he is getting a little long in the tooth. He'll be an upgrade for Romeo in Cleveland, but that's not the same scenario as playing OLB for New England.

David Givens, quite a good receiver, was a #2 possession receiver for the Pats last years. Unlike some teams out there, the Pats don't throw scads of money at a player who says he wants to make #1 money, when he's a not a #1 player. This is why the Pats are masters at Cap management, and know when to bring in new talent.

A lot of people out there simply extrapolate the Pats from last season's effort on to this season, when a lot has changed. Not just the Pats, the rest of the league, too. BB rides the horses he has, and he does that better than any coach in the game today. We'll see a lot of different things being done this year with this team, on both sides of the ball. What's worked in the past may or may not work tomorrow, but the first person on the field to realize that will be Bill Belichik.

If the Fins manage to hornswoggle 10 games ou of that shedule, the season for them will be a wildly successful endeavor, but I don't see it happening.

If, on the other hand, the Pats manage to stumble to 10 wins on this schedule, the season will be considered a disappointment, and I can't see that happening.

Bottom line:

Pats 12-4

Miami 9-7

You heard it here first!

(Gawd, I can't wait for the season to begin!!!!)