QB Controversy!

[PatsFanInVa]

No. Divine intervention is what got them down to the goal line in the first place.

I love how everybody (primarily Patriot haters) like to ignore the fact that the Seahawks were finished way back on their own side of the field until yet another circus sideshow freak catch gave them a miracle hope.

Ignore this then parrot the narrative that Butler stole their Superbowl.

If any miracle was stealing anybody's Superbowl win, it was this lucky ******** almost stealing ours. Butler just righted the wrong.

You live in a fantasy land where this BS didn't take place and Butler `stole` a Seattle Superbowl ring with a fluke play. Try thinking for yourself instead of being a Brady hating, media parroting, mindless ****ing drone.

I actually think with a couple of winks from the Football Gods -- or at least, with a couple non-FUs from the Football Gods -- Brady has the thumb covered and is already working on the other hand.

It's a false narrative to say "Seattle lost it, NE didn't win it." Same thing w/us vs. the Giants, or us vs. the Giants. Breaks my heart but it's true.

Any fan anywhere saying "if it weren't for..." and "take away..." isn't doing this right. You can't take away any given play... you can't take away the Kearse (or Manningham or Tyree) catch. You can't take away the Butler pick. THEY HAPPENED.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

A minor point, but just an fyi, you appear to have an Internet connection, so you can certainly "get" that douche where you live

Um, yay? LOL... point is, he's not just there when I flick on my radio or TV or wherever he does his little act.

As for this debate, I think it's ridiculous to discuss something that clearly has zero chance (barring the catastrophic) of happening in '15.

It's 90 out and we're all still waiting for the next "news from OTAs." The only conversations we can have are ridiculous ones.

 

[Brady_12]

Um, yay? LOL... point is, he's not just there when I flick on my radio or TV or wherever he does his little act.
It's 90 out and we're all still waiting for the next "news from OTAs." The only conversations we can have are ridiculous ones.

Touché. But I think who the starting QB for this team is going to be, Draconian suspensions aside, is at the bottom of the list of topics for conversation. Realistically it doesn't even make a list that I'd write. He's the GOAT QB, just had the best playoff performance any QB has ever had, and is still under contract.

I'd prefer to discuss how the team will be dealing with a depleted -- decimated -- secondary instead, but I suppose that's a different topic.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Touché. But I think who the starting QB for this team is going to be, Draconian suspensions aside, is at the bottom of the list of topics for conversation. Realistically it doesn't even make a list that I'd write. He's the GOAT QB, just had the best playoff performance any QB has ever had, and is still under contract.

I'd prefer to discuss how the team will be dealing with a depleted -- decimated -- secondary instead, but I suppose that's a different topic.

On the bright side, I don't think anybody would complain about a hijack from the OP's topic

There is something weird about how calmly the team let go of the lower cap-hit guys (secondary.) Whatever this unit looks like in the opener, if they get torched we're going to hear about the "arrogance" of Bill Belichick early

 

[Brady_12]

I'll take BB's "arrogance" over RR's and others' bravado/confidence/bs claims any day of the week. The other coaches seem to want to win on the nightly news. I like a coach who wants to win on Sunday.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

It smells like BB's been cookin again...

 

[Captain Cliche]

OK, here's a lot of hypotheticals...

Brady's signed through 2017...check

Garropolo looks like a more than serviceable replacement...???

End of 2016 some ****hole of a team is willing to give up 2 1st's and a 2 for Brady...for credibility and to fill the stands.

You pull the trigger?

 

[PATS16N0]

OK, here's a lot of hypotheticals...

Brady's signed through 2017...check

Garropolo looks like a more than serviceable replacement...???

End of 2016 some ****hole of a team is willing to give up 2 1st's and a 2 for Brady...for credibility and to fill the stands.

You pull the trigger?

Nope. I'll take a shot at another Lombardi over draft picks any day.

 

[zydecochris]

Players do not condition themselves today as they did in prior decades. And Brady's regimen demonstrates he is fanatical about his conditioning, constantly evolving his workouts as he ages.

Running backs get hit every time they carry the ball, and should typically be hitting someone on the occasion they are not carrying the ball. The age 30 wall is probably more of reality for them due to the nature of the position. QBs who are not eating turf on every pass play don't take that type of damage. Brady is not a running QB, so it really isn't all that big deal if he loses a step in speed. However, last year he appeared quicker than he was earlier in his career, so somehow he improved rather than declined in that regard.

Nobody is claiming he is immortal, but media and fans looking to take that next step now might consider Brady could go past 40, because this isn't the gridiron of 1975 and the Terry Bradshaw era. I hope Brady stays great for the next 5 or 6 years and is wearing a Patriots uniform then. When he is done, I will welcome the next starting QB. I am just not looking forward to that day, because Brady truly is a once in a lifetime QB. When he is gone, you will know it when you watch whoever replaces Brady, and what that player can and, more importantly, cannot do. The end of the road for Brady is not as defined as planners seem to believe.

I agree with Deus that Brady is still the best, and moreover I agree with Deus's past assertions that having Brady gives the Patriots a secret advantage that helps to compensate for constantly drafting at the last of each round (and having draft picks stolen from them).

The debate seems to be about whether or not Brady will "lose it" in a few years, or if he will be able to maintain the same level of excellence. A third possibility is that his skills aren't significantly eroded, but he becomes much more injury prone. Regardless of how well prepared and conditioned an athlete is, a 40 year old human body does not heal from injury like a 25 year old does. IMHO, the thing that has made Brady the GOAT is his remarkable football intelligence, he is essentially an "on-the-field" football genius. With that type of sports "genius" sometimes they don't lose their skills as much as their body breaking down. Steve Nash seems like a recent example, his body eventually just gave up at about age 40 despite his remarkable conditioning. Larry Bird also had this type of sports genius, and he had to retire not from an erosion in his skills but his body breaking down.

MassPats38, we can only hope that because of Brady's remarkable conditioning (as you point out), he will be one of the lucky ones who does not succumb to injury as he gets older. As you say, he has been one of a kind.

 

[LJRomanoff]

OK, here's a lot of hypotheticals...

Brady's signed through 2017...check

Garropolo looks like a more than serviceable replacement...???

End of 2016 some ****hole of a team is willing to give up 2 1st's and a 2 for Brady...for credibility and to fill the stands.

You pull the trigger?

I suspect the odds of that happening are close to zero. I don't think Brady would allow himself to be traded to anywhere other than perhaps the 49ers. I also suspect Brady is far more self-aware than someone like Brett Favre, and will know when his skills have diminished sufficiently for him to consider retiring. The only controversy is if that time happens after Jimmy G's rookie contract has ended. Will the Patriots spend the extra money to re-sign a backup quarterback? Will Jimmy G stay on a team where he's still a backup for a year or more? I'd like to believe the Patriots have a Favre/Rodgers scenario brewing but the timing is tricky.

 

[Captain Cliche]

I suspect the odds of that happening are close to zero. I don't think Brady would allow himself to be traded to anywhere other than perhaps the 49ers. I also suspect Brady is far more self-aware than someone like Brett Favre, and will know when his skills have diminished sufficiently for him to consider retiring. The only controversy is if that time happens after Jimmy G's rookie contract has ended. Will the Patriots spend the extra money to re-sign a backup quarterback? Will Jimmy G stay on a team where he's still a backup for a year or more? I'd like to believe the Patriots have a Favre/Rodgers scenario brewing but the timing is tricky.

Did Seymour have a choice about giong to the Raiders??

 

[LJRomanoff]

Did Seymour have a choice about giong to the Raiders??

Sure. He could have told the Patriots that if they trade him to the Raiders he'd file his retirement papers.

I think Brady retires before he'd ever agreed to be traded to team like the Redskins or the Browns.

 

[PATS16N0]

Sure. He could have told the Patriots that if they trade him to the Raiders he'd file his retirement papers.

I think Brady retires before he'd ever agreed to be traded to team like the Redskins or the Browns.

Brady could take Cleveland to the AFC Championship game this season, if not the Superbowl.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I suspect the odds of that happening are close to zero. I don't think Brady would allow himself to be traded to anywhere other than perhaps the 49ers. I also suspect Brady is far more self-aware than someone like Brett Favre, and will know when his skills have diminished sufficiently for him to consider retiring. The only controversy is if that time happens after Jimmy G's rookie contract has ended. Will the Patriots spend the extra money to re-sign a backup quarterback? Will Jimmy G stay on a team where he's still a backup for a year or more? I'd like to believe the Patriots have a Favre/Rodgers scenario brewing but the timing is tricky.

The problem with comparing any QB situation to Favre/Rodgers is that Lord Favrequad kept doing the Favre Annual Retirement Tango, and the Packers got tired of being his dance partner. Brady, OTOH, is closer to "You'll pry the ball out of my cold dead hands."

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The other aspect of his game he turned and "fixed" on a dime was that he got to the point where he got the ball out in 2.5 seconds on average. Think back - he was never the guy you described as having the lightning-fast release. Good but not great in that category. He compensated with awareness, digested the new data -- you will just not have as much time -- and decided "then this is the way we win this year." (With a lot of help, I am sure, from Bill n Josh.)

Two thoughts:

(1) He also rediscovered the fact that, yes, he can run the ball even after he sets back to pass. That was one of the few infuriating things about recent pre-KC Brady: once he dropped back to pass, there was zero chance he'd run, even when the yards were there.

(2) What do you mean by "lightning-fast release"? Garoppolo supposedly has one (he can get the ball out of his hand in under 1.5 seconds, IIRC).

 

[RIpats88]

dont really see how it is a controversy considering as of today Garropolo is the starter for the first 4 games. he should be getting 50% of the reps if we want to win those games

 

[Deus Irae]

So your original contention is "when it's money time." Did you mean when it's game 9 of the season and the game is really close or something? Do I mis-read you as meaning "On the biggest stage"?

Using Eli as an example is precisely on-point.

For your original contention, you are now down from "31 other teams would love to have Brady" to "30 other teams would love to have Brady, and it really should be 31, but that's a fluke."

We can do this all day. It's just not true that every other team wants Brady. MOST other teams would give their eye teeth for him. There are a few who are okay with their guy.

I'm not even saying they're right to think that. I just think "it is more probable than not" that their internal logic is "We like our guy," in a few teams around this league.

Eli's only even reached the playoffs 5 times, and he's gone one-and-done 3 times. In other words, he's not even winning enough money games to get into the playoffs. Using Eli as an example is ridiculous.

 

[IcyPatriot]

This board was real nasty when the controversy was Bledsoe vs Brady ...

Loyalty to player and should a player lose job to injury were the discussion factors. I was a Bledsoe basher so I was fine with Brady ... hated those hard Bledsoe throws up the middle resulting in INT's ... but did give credit to Bledsoe for bringing us a full stadium and games shown on TV weekly.

It was about 2/3's support for Bledsoe if I remember correctly with the sub discussion being Belichick's history with the Kosar / Testaverde issue ... which Bill admitted he handled in a rather poor PR manner.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Eli's only even reached the playoffs 5 times, and he's gone one-and-done 3 times. In other words, he's not even winning enough money games to get into the playoffs. Using Eli as an example is ridiculous.

Regardless, on the biggest stage, Deus: Do you still believe your "31 other teams" hypothesis? Or does Coughlin take Eli?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Two thoughts:

(1) He also rediscovered the fact that, yes, he can run the ball even after he sets back to pass. That was one of the few infuriating things about recent pre-KC Brady: once he dropped back to pass, there was zero chance he'd run, even when the yards were there.

Yeah, seems as the season went on, "Hello? You play to win the game" gripped him again... despite the fact that part of me gets scared every time he decides to do this (except sneaks. He's just too good at those.)

(2) What do you mean by "lightning-fast release"? Garoppolo supposedly has one (he can get the ball out of his hand in under 1.5 seconds, IIRC).

Right, but we're talking about Brady - he's never been noted for a fast release, so there are within that 2.5 seconds they said he was taking per pass play, some extra fractions of a second he does not get.

Although I have been curious as to whether working w/Grapes has been a two way street... "Hey lil bro, how do you do that...?"