QB Controversy!

[chasa]

the only way we have a competition is if brady gets hurt for the season, and jimmy steps in.

 

[Deus Irae]

So you would've started Favre over Rodgers in 2008? Favre had a strong 2007 and Rodgers had never started a game.

1.) Rodgers is a HOF level QB, which puts him in the "unless you've got a future HOFer as a backup" category, along with the 49ers with the Montana/Young transition

2.) Favre was playing good football in 2008, and had the Jets in position to win the division, prior to getting injured.

3.) In 2009, Favre was a messed up ankle, and a questionable pass which almost certainly would have been a run for a first down without the ankle injury, away from beating the eventual NFL champions in the NFCCG.

4.) Rodgers big playoff run came in 2010. Save for that one year, he's 3-5 in the playoffs, with 3 one-and-done seasons. Favre had 3 one-and-done seasons for his entire career.

So, even with a player of Rogers caliber in the wings, a strong argument could still be made that the Packers would have been better off bringing Favre back for another 2 seasons.

Hell, even in the Montana/Young transition, Montana got the Chiefs to the AFCCG in 1993.

 

[5thRing-Hunt]

Just like Brady exceeded expectations at the beginning of his career I believe he'll do the same at the end by playing well into his 40's. The only question is if Brady decides to stay after the way Kraft left him hanging. The pats still have a chance to keep Brady and tie the steelers with 6 super bowl wins with the same quarterback before he retires.

 

[Concussion Protocol]

1.) Rodgers is a HOF level QB, which puts him in the "unless you've got a future HOFer as a backup" category, along with the 49ers with the Montana/Young transition

2.) Favre was playing good football in 2008, and had the Jets in position to win the division, prior to getting injured.

3.) In 2009, Favre was a messed up ankle, and a questionable pass, away from beating the eventual NFL champions in the NFCCG.

4.) Rodgers big playoff run came in 2010. Save for that one year, he's 3-5 in the playoffs, with 3 one-and-done seasons. Favre had 3 one-and-done seasons for his entire career.

So, even with a player of Rogers caliber in the wings, a strong argument could still be made that the Packers would have been better off bringing Favre back for another 2 seasons.

Good points. How will we know if Garoppolo is a future HOF player though?

 

[Deus Irae]

Good points. How will we know if Garoppolo is a future HOF player though?

Time will tell.

I know where that leads, as far as your follow up question. The only answer to it that is honest is "The team has to guess right", because it may not be obvious, if the guy's not getting playing time.

Elite winners win: it's what they do. Their successors.? Not so much. That's why, even before the days of free agency and parity, the dynasties crumble(d).

 

[farn]

I'm with Deus. Always treat QBs differently. Moving on "one year early" is great.... unless you're talking about the QB position.

I love me some Brady. But sure, I would also love to see JG beat out Brady. That'd mean he's far exceeded my wildest expectations. Truth is : as has been mentioned already, show me the guy who plays better than Brady did (and always has) in the biggest games. Training camp doesn't tell you that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As long as TB keeps winning championships there is no battle. It's only when you are start losing.

Exactly. Grapes is a serviceable backup (I think?). He is there in case TB goes from 37 to 57 overnight. Until then he is the horse you ride for as long you can.

 

[Brewskies]

I think this is terrific, we have the best of all worlds. Jimmy G if he shows he can do it then we keep him as replacement or trade for high picks, If Brady can't overturn the suspension then we have Jimmy G and he win 2 out of 4 any more is a gift. It's all win - win.

I want Brady but in the alternative is if JG does the job I wilth him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just a follow up:

Peyton Manning v. Andrew Luck

Manning's made the playoffs all 3 seasons in Denver
Luck's made the playoffs all 3 seasons in Indy
Manning's been to the SB
Luck's maxed out at the AFCCG
Luck is 3-3
Manning is 2-3

So, even with the biggest playoff choker in NFL history, and the 'greatest prospect since Peyton Manning' on the other side, the transition has been, at best, an even swap, and that's with the Chiefs going into full meltdown mode against the Colts in the second half of their 2013 matchup.

 

[Tony2046]

Are we talking about Practice?

 

[Concussion Protocol]

Just a follow up:

Peyton Manning v. Andrew Luck

Manning's made the playoffs all 3 seasons in Denver
Luck's made the playoffs all 3 seasons in Indy
Manning's been to the SB
Luck's maxed out at the AFCCG
Luck is 3-3
Manning is 2-3

So, even with the biggest playoff choker in NFL history, and the 'greatest prospect since Peyton Manning' on the other side, the transition has been, at best, an even swap, and that's with the Chiefs going into full meltdown mode against the Colts in the second half of their 2013 matchup.

I think the decision to move from Manning to Luck was more about the long-term future than 2012-2014. That's what this whole debate is about, weighing the near future against the long-term future. It's risky either way when one QB is unproven and the other is geriatric.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think the decision to move from Manning to Luck was more about the long-term future than 2012-2014. That's what this whole debate is about, weighing the near future against the long-term future. It's risky either way when one QB is unproven and the other is geriatric.

I agree with your analysis of the why. I'm looking at the reality of the "Well?"

3 years in and, let's be honest, it's still Manning, when healthy, over Luck. Maybe this year, in year 4, that will finally change.

 

[1960Pats]

It's one thing to get rid of a QB that may or may not have value.
It's another altogether to get rid of a QB who has proven his worth.
Any mention that I have made in the past about trading Brady was purely hypothetical.
A team would be foolish to get rid of the GOAT coming off of the season that he just had.

 

[1960Pats]

I think the decision to move from Manning to Luck was more about the long-term future than 2012-2014. That's what this whole debate is about, weighing the near future against the long-term future. It's risky either way when one QB is unproven and the other is geriatric.

How could Indy have made that decision unless they knew they were going to tank the season and get Luck? The funny thing too is, Luck plays just like Peyton.

 

[Tony2046]

There is no way I am thinking about JG this season especially after the NFL just put the biggest chip on Brady's shoulder. I am thinking 19-0 or at least a Super Bowl appearance. He has a returning super bowl winning receiver corp along with an additional possible pro bowl type TE. We have what looks to be a dominate front 7 which will help make up the difference in our CB losses. Brady just gave us his best performance in the Super Bowl and his QBR went up last year even after that crappy start of the season. Oh let's not forget that we happen to have BB on the sideline. I like Garoppolo and he has proven to me that it wasn't a wasted pick but for now I can't wait to see Brady rip the NFL a new one. That pick they lost next year will be the 32nd pick.

 

[Tony2046]

I think the decision to move from Manning to Luck was more about the long-term future than 2012-2014. That's what this whole debate is about, weighing the near future against the long-term future. It's risky either way when one QB is unproven and the other is geriatric.

Manning was hurt and no one really knew how he would come back. He had lost the strength in his throwing arm. I think that had a lot to do with them going with luck and letting Manning move on. Brady on the other hand just had one of the best seasons of his career.

 

[goheels22002]

Time will tell.

I know where that leads, as far as your follow up question. The only answer to it that is honest is "The team has to guess right", because it may not be obvious, if the guy's not getting playing time.

Elite winners win: it's what they do. Their successors.? Not so much. That's why, even before the days of free agency and parity, the dynasties crumble(d).

This is an interesting discussion on a lot of levels. The good news and the bad news is that it is not hypothetical at this point. As things stand before the appeal, the Patriots will get a chance to see Garoppolo in regular season action with the starters against good teams.

Garoppolo's reps in pre-season mean a lot, and he'll get time with the starters to build some chemistry. Guys like Edelman, Gronk, Amendola and Blount will be highly motivated to carry the team, and the understudy QB, while they wait for Brady to return from whatever suspension he ends up serving.

The other question that fascinates me is, what game plan does Josh install to put Garoppolo and the Patriots in the best position to win the non-Brady games? We can be sure they will be opponent-specific, but they can't assume Garoppolo can do what Brady does. This extended absence puts real pressure on the coaching staff to do their best work.

 

[brap999]

It's amazing how fast people forget Brady's performance last season. He just led the team to a Superbowl victory, the largest second half comeback ever, his 4th win, 6th appearance, and Superbowl MVP. There are few QB's to ever have played in the history of the game that can compete on that level.

Unless Brady gets injured he's going no where, except straight to starting QB. JG could be everything everyone dreams about, but that would still put him only second to Brady.

Read up on how Brady trains year round, and how he takes care of himself. He's not slowing down.

 

[metrowest]

I will duck as soon as I write this because I am sure it will set everyone off. In the SB, Brady was phenomenal in those clutch last drives -- getting the MVP. But he also threw one horrible interception for no reason, and the 2nd one was pretty bad. Take those away, and we win that game with a lot less drama.

I also think that some sort of disconnect has come between Kraft, BB, and TB because of deflate-gate, perhaps with Tom not telling the truth to both of them at the beginning. It just seems like the typically united front has been somewhat fractured.

I really doubt that TB goes anywhere until his contract runs out, but nothing would surprise me at this point. I am ready for anything, and getting a few games from JG at the beginning of next season should be fun for all of us to see what we have there.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

I will duck as soon as I write this because I am sure it will set everyone off. In the SB, Brady was phenomenal in those clutch last drives -- getting the MVP. But he also threw one horrible interception for no reason, and the 2nd one was pretty bad. Take those away, and we win that game with a lot less drama.

I also think that some sort of disconnect has come between Kraft, BB, and TB because of deflate-gate, perhaps with Tom not telling the truth to both of them at the beginning. It just seems like the typically united front has been somewhat fractured.

I really doubt that TB goes anywhere until his contract runs out, but nothing would surprise me at this point. I am ready for anything, and getting a few games from JG at the beginning of next season should be fun for all of us to see what we have there.

The second int wasn't bad, that was the lb fooling Tom by having enough athleticism to come back and pick it off. The first one was bad but it's like all of his ints last season, rushed, couldn't step up and possibly didn't see the defender. Brady is not only the greatest of all time at his position, he may be the best football player of all time, because seriously he's 37 goining on 38 and we keep talking about how that was one of his best seasons of his career. That's not someone that's gonna be beat out by an unknown rookie unless garoppolo is even better which is highly unlikely.