Putting the pieces in place before the draft, once again

[Triumph]

Then you'd better hope that Glass-IR Dowling stays healthy enough to line up with Arrington on the other side.

No, I hope the Pats address CB with pick 27 or 31.

Im tired of waiting for the next promising NE DB on IR or whatever to emerge as some great draft pick.

I'm saying what I said. The Patriots just signed Gregory and are still pursuing Landry. That doesn't seem as if McCourty is going to be a safety.

Seemed like Ocho was the answer. Seemed like Price was really coming along. Seemed like Haynesworth was ready to be a force again. Seemed like Bodden and McCourty were going to be one solid CB tandem in 2011.

Seems like things are never as they seem.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, I hope the Pats address CB with pick 27 or 31.

Im tired of waiting for the next promising NE DB on IR or whatever to emerge as some great draft pick.

I'm tired of the team drafting CBs high when other needs are just as significant. Taking yet another CB with a first or second round pick would be stupid at this point, IMO, as the team should have its top 3 at the position already on the team (McCourty, Dowling, Arrington).

Seemed like Ocho was the answer. Seemed like Price was really coming along. Seemed like Haynesworth was ready to be a force again. Seemed like Bodden and McCourty were going to be one solid CB tandem in 2011.

Seems like things are never as they seem.

Seems like you didn't understand my post. Whether I think McCourty should move to safety (I don't), or not, is irrelevant to my answer. It seems as if McCourty's not a safety because the Patriots are bringing in multiple players to address the safety position. If McCourty was expected to be the safety, it's much less likely that the Patriots would still be looking at Landry after signing Gregory.

 

[JackBauer]

Seemed like Ocho was the answer. Seemed like Price was really coming along. Seemed like Haynesworth was ready to be a force again. Seemed like Bodden and McCourty were going to be one solid CB tandem in 2011.

Seems like things are never as they seem.

So you think they'd sign Gregory and Landry and STILL move McCourty to safety?

 

[JackBauer]

I'm tired of the team drafting CBs high when other needs are just as significant. Taking yet another CB with a first or second round pick would be stupid at this point, IMO, as the team should have its top 3 at the position already on the team (McCourty, Dowling, Arrington).

Agree. I wouldn't necessarily mind a lower round CB selection, though. Can never have enough.

 

[Triumph]

So you think they'd sign Gregory and Landry and STILL move McCourty to safety?

1. Where else would McCourty play if he stills struggles at CB?

2. Gregory hasnt done squat yet. He could be cut and the Pats would absorb his signing bonus this year and next. Nothing new.

 

[patfanken]

Yes

OK, but would you spend $3-4MM/yr or who he need to sign a Gregory-like contract. If I agreed to Landry it would have to be a prove it deal that would reward staying on the field, and be very cap friendly if he couldn't

Landry's a starter-level safety. Right now, the Patriots have only one of those. While my safety preference was Tyvon Branch, that option never materialized (I had Landry in the top 4 options, but as #4). Unfortunately, teams kept their safeties this year, and that leaves Landry and Nelson as the best of a weak bunch.

Well my quest for Richard Marshall when unfulfilled as well, alas. BTW-what are your feeling on Nelson? Do you think he was a better option than Gregory?

I'll take the starter and trust BB to find a way to make it work. To me, that's preferable to getting another safety who's destined to be a day late and a dollar short in all aspects of the game.

I'm not quite sure of your point here. Hasn't Landry's problem in Washington (besides the injuries) is that he was "a day late and a dollar short" in coverage. Also if you play Landry in the FA position, do you think Chung can fill that sideline to sideline FS need?

And Barrett? Come on....

Well optimist that I am, by all reports he WAS playing well, when he managed to stay on the field.....even if it did seem like a blink of an eye.

This year's safety class sucks, by most accounts, and that may be from the very top to the bottom. The split on Barron isn't imagined. There is a lot of question about his ability to play well at the NFL level.

I don't understand what you mean by "the split on Barron isn't imagined" There are questions, I guess on every player, but most of what I've read about Barron was good. My question about him is more the about him being more of a SS vs a FS, but if you are going to go after a SS type, he could be a lower cost option with a higher upside and less of an injury risk

BTW- 2 of my favorite safety options in this draft aren't even safeties. Steven Gilmore, Trumaine Johnson, and the only real S, Markel Martin, who has 4.3 speed at the FS position.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Here we agree in principal, but why do you continue to promote the notion that Dowling is a consistent injury risk when it has been documented on many occasions that he WASN'T. He got hurt last year, so did a lot of other players in the league. Get over it.

That being said, your basic OP is sound. At best Gregory, now playing in his natural position, can provide the kind of range at FS we didn't have last season. (what I was looking for from Richard Marshall ) At worst he can be a crack special teamer who adds depth, skill and experience to a very young secondary.....and certainly a big upgrade over what was there last season. Every single pre-draft evaluation of him started and ended with the words "injury-prone".

BTW- while I love the ideas of replacing Anderson/Carter with Jason Allen, it can't happen. He'd have to come over in a trade and his contract isn't a whole lot lower than Peppers/Williams. File under "wishful thinking", which is what we all do this time of year.

Go back through the draft day threads. I (and everyone else) predicted that he would not make it out of training camp (I was off by 3 quarters). Everyone else was calling him "Ras-IR Dolwing" on draftday. "Ras-I'm made of Glass" is only the latest moniker. I pretty sure I labled him the next Shawn Crable on draftday.

Hell he even pulled a hammy at the combine!!!! So if a guy that had a hurt shoulder, knee, arm in college, who then pulls a hammy at the combine and has already missed an entire season is not injury prone, who is?????

 

[Triumph]

I'm tired of the team drafting CBs high when other needs are just as significant. Taking yet another CB with a first or second round pick would be stupid at this point, IMO, as the team should have its top 3 at the position already on the team (McCourty, Dowling, Arrington).

Right. Its looking real good.

You just said that Dowlings made of glass. McCourty had to be moved last season. Arrington is the Pats best CB on their 32 ranked pass defense.

Its been like Groundhogs Day ever since the 2006 AFCC watching Brady get the lead, only to die a slow death as the other team milks the clock passing all over the Pats defense.

Then, lets factor how the Pats go through DBs landing on IR or out of commission for extended periods of the season.

Seems like you didn't understand my post. Whether I think McCourty should move to safety (I don't), or not, is irrelevant to my answer. It seems as if McCourty's not a safety because the Patriots are bringing in multiple players to address the safety position. If McCourty was expected to be the safety, it's much less likely that the Patriots would still be looking at Landry after signing Gregory.

Where do you suppose McCourty would play if he cant get back to 2010 form?

Seems like you have the answers.

 

[JackBauer]

1. Where else would McCourty play if he stills struggles at CB?

2. Gregory hasnt done squat yet. He could be cut and the Pats would absorb his signing bonus this year and next. Nothing new.

The question isn't where McCourty will play if he sucks again at CB. The question is whether, for roster purposes, the coaching staff views McCourty as a CB or a S, primarily, heading into the season.

All available evidence is in support of the former.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, but would you spend $3-4MM/yr or who he need to sign a Gregory-like contract. If I agreed to Landry it would have to be a prove it deal that would reward staying on the field, and be very cap friendly if he couldn't

Gregory's getting just under 3 a year as it is (3/8.5), so I have no issue with them spending 3-4 on Landry. I think they overpaid for Gregory, which would be my bigger beef.

Well my quest for Richard Marshall when unfulfilled as well, alas. BTW-what are your feeling on Nelson? Do you think he was a better option than Gregory?

Nelson > Gregory

However, he's also very inconsistent.

I'm not quite sure of your point here. Hasn't Landry's problem in Washington (besides the injuries) is that he was "a day late and a dollar short" in coverage. Also if you play Landry in the FA position, do you think Chung can fill that sideline to sideline FS need?

Chung has been used a lot in coverage by NE, so putting Landry closer to the line shouldn't be an issue. When the team pulls the Sanders lineup (3 safeties), Greg comes in as another downfield S.

Well optimist that I am, by all reports he WAS playing well, when he managed to stay on the field.....even if it did seem like a blink of an eye.

Realist that I try to be, I see Barrett struggling to keep a job on the team, especially if Ihedigbo returns. Time will tell on him, naturally, but a 28 year old DB usually is what he is.

I don't understand what you mean by "the split on Barron isn't imagined" There are questions, I guess on every player, but most of what I've read about Barron was good. My question about him is more the about him being more of a SS vs a FS, but if you are going to go after a SS type, he could be a lower cost option with a higher upside and less of an injury risk

Barron - injury problems, questionable hips, some tackling issues as he sometimes ignores the steady tackle for the big hit, man coverage issues, not noted for great speed

BTW- 2 of my favorite safety options in this draft aren't even safeties. Steven Gilmore, Trumaine Johnson, and the only real S, Markel Martin, who has 4.3 speed at the FS position.

If they're going to grab a safety, I'd love to see them take a burner at the position (but after the WR/OLB/DL picks).

 

[Deus Irae]

Right. Its looking real good.

You just said that Dowlings made of glass. McCourty had to be moved last season. Arrington is the Pats best CB on their 32 ranked pass defense.

Its been like Groundhogs Day ever since the 2006 AFCC watching Brady get the lead, only to die a slow death as the other team milks the clock passing all over the Pats defense.

Then, lets factor how the Pats go through DBs landing on IR or out of commission for extended periods of the season.



Where do you suppose McCourty would play if he cant get back to 2010 form?

Seems like you have the answers.

To put it as gently as possible:

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts, and somehow missing JackBauer's explanations, in this thread.

 

[PatsFan2]

And, what happens if McCourty has another season at CB like 2011?

Are you saying there is no way that he will play Safety for NE again? Up till now, Gregory has been depth.

McCourty like Merriweather is an enigma...how can players start out so good and go bad so quickly. McCourty didn't look like much of a Safety to me and as a CB he looks lost against Good WR's...completely lost against Great ones. I am sure he's Happy that Marshall, Jackson and Garson are now in the NFC. The Patriots might need to Draft a CB early again just to because of the uncertainties. We had guys on Offense playing CB for crying out loud.

 

[ATippett56]

Where do you suppose McCourty would play if he cant get back to 2010 form?

What eventually happened to Darius Butler? There are only so many roster spots for the cornerback position.

 

[Triumph]

To put it as gently as possible:

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts, and somehow missing JackBauer's explanations, in this thread.

You seem to be so full of BS.

 

[Triumph]

To put it as gently as possible:

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts, and somehow missing JackBauer's explanations, in this thread.

Then you'd better hope that Glass-IR Dowling stays healthy enough to line up with Arrington on the other side.

He's missed time and he's been banged up, and you're trying to split hairs, but I'm not using the moniker because of any long history of injury (although it's there despite your attempts to minimize it)

I'm tired of the team drafting CBs high when other needs are just as significant. Taking yet another CB with a first or second round pick would be stupid at this point, IMO, as the team should have its top 3 at the position already on the team (McCourty, Dowling, Arrington)

Youre a piece of work. Gotta give you that.

 

[mgteich]

There was plenty of room on the 2011 squad for Butler as a backup and utility defensive back. In the end, Molden beat him out for his roster spot.

We carry 9-11 defensive backs. We always have room for someone who can be productive as a starter, backup or special teamer. As was made obvious this past year, we sometimes have to pick up players during the season.

What eventually happened to Darius Butler? There are only so many roster spots for the cornerback position.

 

[ATippett56]

There was plenty of room on the 2011 squad for Butler as a backup and utility defensive back. In the end, Molden beat him out for his roster spot.

We carry 9-11 defensive backs. We always have room for someone who can be productive as a starter, backup or special teamer. As was made obvious this past year, we sometimes have to pick up players during the season.

The point I was making if the New England Patriots draft another cornerback and Devin McCourty does not show improvement from the 2011 NFL Season during the 2012 NFL Preseason, I would not be shocked if Devin McCourty was cut prior to the commencement of the 2012 NFL Season.

 

[DarrylS]

There was plenty of room on the 2011 squad for Butler as a backup and utility defensive back. In the end, Molden beat him out for his roster spot.

We carry 9-11 defensive backs. We always have room for someone who can be productive as a starter, backup or special teamer. As was made obvious this past year, we sometimes have to pick up players during the season.

If we had Bodden back there it may have been different, however cannot predict injuries...

Young defensive backfields always have trouble with the learning curve in the NFL... experience is an equalizer for most of the DB's in the NFL. At the end of the season our DB's played better, as experience/communication started to set in.

 

[Deus Irae]

Youre a piece of work. Gotta give you that.

As I noted you don't seem to be understanding my posts. However, given what you're quoting and how you're misusing it, that misunderstanding seems to be deliberate.


Edit: Here's someone local noting the same thing:

Yup RT @JumboHart: Signs seem to point to #Patriots CB Devin McCourty aka @McCourtyTwins playing corner in 2012 -- bit.ly/wvmDPV

http://twitter.com/RapSheet/statuses/180743303166312448

And another...

The Gregory agreement, coupled with the reported weekend visit of LaRon Landry (credit: Boston Herald), seems to signal the thinking that McCourty is better off staying at cornerback.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4719189/opinion-on-gregory-deal

And another....

In addition, the presence of Gregory on the roster (and the possible acquisition of Landry) could mean Devin McCourty will make a full-time return to corner in 2012.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2012/03/16/taking-a-look-at-a-six-pack-of-patriots-free-agent-decisions-from-thursday/


Maybe you'll be able to understand it a little better now.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The point I was making if the New England Patriots draft another cornerback and Devin McCourty does not show improvement from the 2011 NFL Season during the 2012 NFL Preseason, I would not be shocked if Devin McCourty was cut prior to the commencement of the 2012 NFL Season.

Unless he is caught hanging out at U Lowell and selling pot to co-ed girls, BB is not cutting McCourty prior to the 2012 season no way no how.

If during the season he becomes Duane Starks, 1st 50/50 that he sees CB as his position and might move down the line at backup FS in 2013- maybe.