Pre Game Thread - Lions @ Pats

[Joker]

Could Thornton be used in the return game?

why? the Pats already employ their 3rd round pick who's done a good job...

 

[patfanken]

Good check list.

Yes, we need over 350 yards of offense. However, I'd be fine with 150 passing and 200 running.

Hard to run 100 yds when teams are stacking the box. Even WITH Zappe I think 200+ yds are attainable through the air. Hopefully thery worked on a LOT of play action passes this week both from under C AND from shot gun looks. Maybe some RPO's thrown in as well/

BTW- with only one TE in the formation we will likely 5 WRs this game, and Bourne IS our most dynamic WR and we need a few 40+ yd gains tomorrow. I don't see Thornton being active yet. Give him a couple of weeks of practice to get back in the flow of things.

 

[venecol]

Could Thornton be used in the return game?

why? the Pats already employ their 3rd round pick who's done a good job...

 

[upstater1]

That's correct. I admitted to criticizing his on field dramatics like taking a dive to garner a flag, being emotional on the sideline, dancing in the EZ, etc. That's not Patriot-like behavior. That has absolutely nothing to do with what you said, which is false:

If a player lacks grit, I'm assuming the poster means the player lacks on the field. Where else is grit shown?

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Hard to run 100 yds when teams are stacking the box. Even WITH Zappe I think 200+ yds are attainable through the air. Hopefully thery worked on a LOT of play action passes this week both from under C AND from shot gun looks. Maybe some RPO's thrown in as well/

BTW- with only one TE in the formation we will likely 5 WRs this game, and Bourne IS our most dynamic WR and we need a few 40+ yd gains tomorrow. I don't see Thornton being active yet. Give him a couple of weeks of practice to get back in the flow of things.

But they would have waited another week or two to add him to the 53 then. Adding him before they had to means he’s in this week’s game plan. It’s been 7 weeks since his surgery too.

 

[VrabelJr]

He's nowhere in the same universe as Brandon Marshall. That's an insult to Marshall who was a physical outside WR.

Overall I agree. Marshall was incredibly strong, which Meyers lacks in spades. They run similar routes and I wouldn't be surprised if Meyers eventually broke 100 targets like Marshall did. Perhaps PIerre Garcon is a better comparison currently.

 

[venecol]

If a player lacks grit, I'm assuming the poster means the player lacks on the field. Where else is grit shown?

Never said anyone "lacked" grit. I simply stated Zappe has grit. He's the one playing. I was pointing out his strengths and lack of drama. That's it.

In fact, I've been very vocal about blaming the coaches for Mac's drop off. Instead of continuing the same offensive schemes in his 2nd year; they decided to revamp the playbook, simplify the language, run more ozb, no play action or motions, throw a bunch of 50/50 balls, switch the tackles, bench Bourne, not use Henry, etc. Mac never looked comfortable in the pocket. He didn't trust his OL. He was asked to run the play called and not to switch it. The results have been a disaster: 1-3 record, loss of QB1 & QB2 to injuries, anemic offensive scoring (16.75 ppg). We have Bourne in the dog house, Wynn is unmotivated, Mac looks confused. But yea, let's blame Mac for all of this because the "new" coaches have nothing to do with this fiasco that's been the same since TC. They had one simple job: make sure Mac grows and takes a 2nd year jump. So far, they've failed him.

The order of blame lies with:
1. Bill for making the decision to have Patricia & Judge run the offense. WTF;

2. Patricia for re-inventing the wheel and thinking he can be OL coach and OC w/o much experience. Come on man;

3. Judge for pretending to be a QB coach. What is he actually doing? Like did anyone in the entire country really believe it was a good idea to have the guy that ran NYG Jones to the ground talking to the Pats 2nd year 1st Rd QB?

4. Mac because he's made mistakes but I honestly can't blame him for being confused.

I think Zappe has a fresh start and won't be confused by the switch from McD to Patricia's inventions. The kid is probably a sponge and will force Patricia to let go of some of his crazy ideas. Just run PA off the runs, some RPO, motions to help the kid id man coverage, short easy passes, check downs, then let it rip to Henry down the seam to help the kid out once you get their LBs to bite on PA. If Thornton plays, run go routes and let Zappe rip it to Thornton. No 50/50 balls to Parker!!! Andrews needs to help out with the protections.

 

[venecol]

 

[PaulThePat]

I genuinely think @venecol would be disappointed if Mac started.

 

[Scotty]

Unfortunately the UK is showing ...

Dolphins v Jets
Cowboys v Rams
Bengals v Ravens

So, game pass for me

 

[PatsWSB47]

I'll have to watch the replay. Fox has Falcons Bucs. I let my friend take my tickets so he could bring his Dad to the game.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

So no Mac or Jonnu.

 

[Dingleberry]

I genuinely think @venecol would be disappointed if Mac started.

I think anyone who wants Mac to succeed would be disappointed if he started. He has already been set up to fail this year. Why not finish the sacrifice by rolling him out there on one ankle.

Having high hopes for Zappe doesn't equate to wanting Mac to fail.

 

[gitgronked82]

I don’t know if it was Zappe or what but against Green Bay Patricia finally was stringing good plays and dare I say it drives together.

It was not Zappe, if you check the film. Oline had a big day, especially in the run game. We really got outside zone going, and opened up wide open PA for zappe from under center. He basically never added value himself.
Also, I’d push back on the premise of this. The offense WAS moving the ball with Mac. I think people are mistaking him committing turnovers (by the way, only 1 in the ravens game was his fault) for sucking in every facet of the game. The offense was #1 in the league in yards per play the last week Mac played. We were certainly stringing plays and drives together. Turnovers and red zone inefficiency hurt.

He had a 107 QB rating… he looked pretty decent against the 8th best defense in the league in points allowed. If he was limited at all it was due to Patricia’s lack of trust in the kid to throw.

It wasn’t due to Patricia’s lack of trust. When was WAS trusted to throw traditional passing game (not PA under center to wide open receivers), he really struggled. There were too many plays where he passed up an open receiver in his progression because he panicked and created pressure for himself. If he had properly gone through his reads, navigates the pocket, and hit open guys, we win that game. His inability to actually make key plays cost us just like turnovers would have cost us- drives that we should’ve scored on resulted in less points. It’s just harder for people to see that watching live, of course.
He also had a couple poor throws, but I think that was not the bigger issue.

 

[Wozzy]

I don’t know if it was Zappe or what but against Green Bay Patricia finally was stringing good plays and dare I say it drives together.

I thought they were doing it with Mac as well, entering last week's games they had put up the tenth most yards in the league... the problem was Mac turning it over and fumbles.

 

[Wozzy]

It wasn’t due to Patricia’s lack of trust. When was WAS trusted to throw traditional passing game (not PA under center to wide open receivers), he really struggled. There were too many plays where he passed up an open receiver in his progression because he panicked and created pressure for himself. If he had properly gone through his reads, navigates the pocket, and hit open guys, we win that game. His inability to actually make key plays cost us just like turnovers would have cost us- drives that we should’ve scored on resulted in less points. It’s just harder for people to see that watching live, of course.
He also had a couple poor throws, but I think that was not the bigger issue.

Anyone remember Mac's first start, he ran backwards as defenders converged on him and nearly threw the ball right at a defender on his first play.

I expect a rookie playing his first snaps to have first game jitters. The kid also looked really poised for a rookie QB playing in Lambeau against one of the best defenses in the league. Patricia didn't trust him to throw on the final two drives, they couldn't convert a first down running because Green Bay knew they wanted to run. Play action worked great to that point, he shouldn't have clenched up or called the game any differently.

 

[upstater1]

Never said anyone "lacked" grit. I simply stated Zappe has grit. He's the one playing. I was pointing out his strengths and lack of drama. That's it.

In fact, I've been very vocal about blaming the coaches for Mac's drop off. Instead of continuing the same offensive schemes in his 2nd year; they decided to revamp the playbook, simplify the language, run more ozb, no play action or motions, throw a bunch of 50/50 balls, switch the tackles, bench Bourne, not use Henry, etc. Mac never looked comfortable in the pocket. He didn't trust his OL. He was asked to run the play called and not to switch it. The results have been a disaster: 1-3 record, loss of QB1 & QB2 to injuries, anemic offensive scoring (16.75 ppg). We have Bourne in the dog house, Wynn is unmotivated, Mac looks confused. But yea, let's blame Mac for all of this because the "new" coaches have nothing to do with this fiasco that's been the same since TC. They had one simple job: make sure Mac grows and takes a 2nd year jump. So far, they've failed him.

The order of blame lies with:
1. Bill for making the decision to have Patricia & Judge run the offense. WTF;

2. Patricia for re-inventing the wheel and thinking he can be OL coach and OC w/o much experience. Come on man;

3. Judge for pretending to be a QB coach. What is he actually doing? Like did anyone in the entire country really believe it was a good idea to have the guy that ran NYG Jones to the ground talking to the Pats 2nd year 1st Rd QB?

4. Mac because he's made mistakes but I honestly can't blame him for being confused.

I think Zappe has a fresh start and won't be confused by the switch from McD to Patricia's inventions. The kid is probably a sponge and will force Patricia to let go of some of his crazy ideas. Just run PA off the runs, some RPO, motions to help the kid id man coverage, short easy passes, check downs, then let it rip to Henry down the seam to help the kid out once you get their LBs to bite on PA. If Thornton plays, run go routes and let Zappe rip it to Thornton. No 50/50 balls to Parker!!! Andrews needs to help out with the protections.

Whole lotta stuff here.

But do you really expect people to read what you wrote about Zappe's grit and not get the implication about Mac?

The whole thing is about what Mac does.

 

[PaulThePat]

Having high hopes for Zappe doesn't equate to wanting Mac to fail.

In general I agree. But there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[PaulThePat]

Unfortunately the UK is showing ...

Dolphins v Jets
Cowboys v Rams
Bengals v Ravens

So, game pass for me

I hate it when Pats games are on SKY. Game Pass is all I have. Thankfully a match up of two 1-3 teams was never likely to be on SKY's radar.

 

[Nunchucks]

I am excited to see Thornton play in person. I expect to see him play a few snaps...maybe on a reverse. The best would be to sub him in for Parker or Myers, give that cb a look at real speed after covering a slow guy