Power Ranking the remaining QBs and Defenses...

[robbomango]

Ok going by facts Manning has a better qb rating then Brady in the playoff's. So Brady should be ranked lower then Manning no matter what? QB rating is prolly the best way in determining a qb's performance. Anything else is just opinion. There are to many variables to consider wins and losses in this comparison. This is a team sport and defense is usually what wins championships. I do not see Denver going all the way this year. U can't rely on your offense to put up 35+ points every game.

Qbr? What a shallow argument, Manning's been surrounded by MEGA TALENT his entire career his playoff qbr should much, MUCH better than Brady's but I don't think it is if I recall.

Brady might not put up a great qbr this weekend but he will play his arse off with what he has that's for sure...

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Ok going by facts Manning has a better qb rating then Brady in the playoff's. So Brady should be ranked lower then Manning no matter what? QB rating is prolly the best way in determining a qb's performance. Anything else is just opinion. There are to many variables to consider wins and losses in this comparison. This is a team sport and defense is usually what wins championships. I do not see Denver going all the way this year. U can't rely on your offense to put up 35+ points every game.

Yeah, that is why he threw 3tds and 7 ints in his long SB run. Brady might not have the greatest stats, but when he performs clutch, winning scoring drives he wins.

And btw, I don't think mannings is higher than Brady's. I don't know both, but manning does throw a lot of picks in crucial moments and in the playoffs. One reason why he is 9-11 and Brady is 17-7.

Edit:
Brady's: 87.4
PMannings: 88.4

1 point higher. Eh, still doesn't make a strong argument. The best one is 9-11 to 17-7 and mannings game ending ints.

 

[coolguy]

Ok going by facts Manning has a better qb rating then Brady in the playoff's. So Brady should be ranked lower then Manning no matter what? QB rating is prolly the best way in determining a qb's performance. Anything else is just opinion. There are to many variables to consider wins and losses in this comparison. This is a team sport and defense is usually what wins championships. I do not see Denver going all the way this year. U can't rely on your offense to put up 35+ points every game.

You do know the jim mora "playoffs" rant was about peyton manning, right?

 

[Cookenbauer]

And btw, I don't think mannings is higher than Brady's. I don't know both, but manning does throw a lot of picks in crucial moments and in the playoffs. One reason why he is 9-11 and Brady is 17-7.

In Manning's one and done's, please point out the picks he threw in crucial moments. The only crunch times picks I can remember (by all means point some out) were the Saints and last year against the Ravens....so that's one and done crucial moment pick.

Basically it comes down to this...just be consistent. Do you blame Brady for the Super Bowl losses...even though he led go-ahead drives in the 4th quarter? Sure, he could have played better in the first 3 quarters...but in the end, he made the play that could have won it. And in playoff football, isn't that what counts?

But by that very same logic..in 8 of Manning's one and done's...he helped give his team the lead 5 times with less than 5 minutes to go...and they also ended up losing 4 of those 5 times with 40 seconds to go. Both quarterbacks had defenses that failed to close out the game. It just so happens that Manning has had it happen more because maybe their defense didn't have Belichick calling the schemes.

Not trying to apologize for Manning. Despite playing better defenses in the playoffs...he should have played better in numerous games in which it didn't come down to the last play. For someone who puts up monster numbers in the season, he needs to put up more points and has put up some terrible performances.

But the Colts let the likes of Billy Volek and Jay Fiedler lead drives in the 4th quarter to tie and ultimately win the game. Do you think that would EVER happen to a BB coached team? Not in a million years. Do you think a Patriots defense gives up a hail mary with less then a minute and no timeouts by letting the safety get beat deep? Not a chance.

How can you expect to win playoff games when your defense can't stop backup quarterbacks or prevent desperate hail mary's? It doesn't help that in all of those losses, only once did the Colts rush for over 100 yards....and the Colts rush defense has always been terrible (even in 2006, they were ranked 32nd in the league). It also doesn't help that the Colts missed crucial field goals throughout Manning's career.

Yeah I know...it's excuses. But you have to admit one thing...it seems that in the grand schemes of unlucky bounces...Manning didn't seem to have it go his way often.

 

[coolguy]

In Manning's one and done's, please point out the picks he threw in crucial moments. The only crunch times picks I can remember (by all means point some out) were the Saints and last year against the Ravens....so that's one and done crucial moment pick.

Basically it comes down to this...just be consistent. Do you blame Brady for the Super Bowl losses...even though he led go-ahead drives in the 4th quarter? Sure, he could have played better in the first 3 quarters...but in the end, he made the play that could have won it. And in playoff football, isn't that what counts?

But by that very same logic..in 8 of Manning's one and done's...he helped give his team the lead 5 times with less than 5 minutes to go...and they also ended up losing 4 of those 5 times with 40 seconds to go. Both quarterbacks had defenses that failed to close out the game. It just so happens that Manning has had it happen more because maybe their defense didn't have Belichick calling the schemes.

Not trying to apologize for Manning. Despite playing better defenses in the playoffs...he should have played better in numerous games in which it didn't come down to the last play. For someone who puts up monster numbers in the season, he needs to put up more points and has put up some terrible performances.

But the Colts let the likes of Billy Volek and Jay Fiedler lead drives in the 4th quarter to tie and ultimately win the game. Do you think that would EVER happen to a BB coached team? Not in a million years. Do you think a Patriots defense gives up a hail mary with less then a minute and no timeouts by letting the safety get beat deep? Not a chance.

How can you expect to win playoff games when your defense can't stop backup quarterbacks or prevent desperate hail mary's? It doesn't help that in all of those losses, only once did the Colts rush for over 100 yards....and the Colts rush defense has always been terrible (even in 2006, they were ranked 32nd in the league). It also doesn't help that the Colts missed crucial field goals throughout Manning's career.

Yeah I know...it's excuses. But you have to admit one thing...it seems that in the grand schemes of unlucky bounces...Manning didn't seem to have it go his way often.

Read this NFL Playoffs - 2008 Wild Card - San Diego Chargers vs. Indianapolis Colts - ESPN

A 12-4 team got blanked by a 8-8 team in the second half at home.

 

[Cookenbauer]

Read this NFL Playoffs - 2008 Wild Card - San Diego Chargers vs. Indianapolis Colts - ESPN

A 12-4 team got blanked by a 8-8 team in the second half at home.

7 points equals blanked? I actually remember that game. First of all, it was in San Diego. So apparently you don't remember the game.

The most memorable play of the game (other than the Darren Sproles 20 yard run in OT for a TD) was the Colts needing a first down on 3rd and 2 to end the game. The RT (don't remember who it was) completely left the LB/DE Tim Dobbins onblocked and left an immediate blindside hit on Manning. That led to a punt, and surprise surprise, the Colts couldn't protect a lead in the 4th quarter.

But I don't even understand this post. Should the Colts have played better in the 2nd half and put up more points? Absolutely. Was Manning to blame completely for having his defense let Darren Sproles dominate, completely miss a block to have Manning blindsided/sacked in under 2 seconds, or fail to even rush for 3.0 ypc in the game? I dunno, you tell me.

Ironically I was excited when they lost because of all the teams I was worried about my team (Titans) to face, I was more scared of the Colts since they had won 9 straight and were hot. Of course that didn't matter when they stunk it up against the Ravens the next game to go one and done.

 

[coolguy]

7 points equals blanked? I actually remember that game. First of all, it was in San Diego. So apparently you don't remember the game.

The most memorable play of the game (other than the Darren Sproles 20 yard run in OT for a TD) was the Colts needing a first down on 3rd and 2 to end the game. The RT (don't remember who it was) completely left the LB/DE Tim Dobbins onblocked and left an immediate blindside hit on Manning. That led to a punt, and surprise surprise, the Colts couldn't protect a lead in the 4th quarter.

But I don't even understand this post. Should the Colts have played better in the 2nd half and put up more points? Absolutely. Was Manning to blame completely for having his defense let Darren Sproles dominate, completely miss a block to have Manning blindsided/sacked in under 2 seconds, or fail to even rush for 3.0 ypc in the game? I dunno, you tell me.

Ironically I was excited when they lost because of all the teams I was worried about my team (Titans) to face, I was more scared of the Colts since they had won 9 straight and were hot. Of course that didn't matter when they stunk it up against the Ravens the next game to go one and done.

Peyton only scored 1 td. Peyton has a tendency of playing down to his opponents level in the playoffs.

 

[Cookenbauer]

Peyton only scored 1 td. Peyton has a tendency of playing down to his opponents level in the playoffs.

And I clearly stated that originally. He has to play better consistently in the playoffs. 17 points wasn't up to the Colts standard of ppg in the regular season.

But this doesn't mean he played poorly or choked like you are trying to infer. It was a tough game in which San Diego dominated the time of possession, averaged over 5 yards a carry, and completely shut down the Colts run game.

Big Ben only threw for a 181 yards and 1 TD against the same Chargers team a week later...but Pittsburgh dominated in all facets. What did they average rushing this time? A massive 1.3 ypc. Their TOP went from 38 against the Colts to 23 against the Steelers.

So you tell me...Manning puts up 310 yards and 1 TD, and Big Ben puts up 181 and 1 TD. Why did Big Ben win and Manning didn't? Could is possibly be because of the other 52 players that dressed up that day?

 

[Guts]

Ike Taylor a Steeler

Justin Tuck a Giant

have all said on record they prefer Tom Brady over any other QB ( exception being their QBs obviously)

 

[mpw8679]

You do know the jim mora "playoffs" rant was about peyton manning, right?

Umm ok?? Not sure what that has to do with this thread.

 

[mpw8679]

Qbr? What a shallow argument, Manning's been surrounded by MEGA TALENT his entire career his playoff qbr should much, MUCH better than Brady's but I don't think it is if I recall.

Brady might not put up a great qbr this weekend but he will play his arse off with what he has that's for sure...

Never heard a crappy defense reffered to as Mega Talent before.

 

[makoute]

if thats the case then obviously we should lower brady a bit right? I mean if playoff record doesnt matter and we are just going of Fantasy football stats, then it should be manning, brees, rivers, newton, luck, maybe brady, etc.

Here i was thinking leading your team to victory was important.

For some unknown reason, a lot of people here seems to hate Colin K, and will find any and every excuse to denigrate his accomplishments, crazy really.

 

[robbomango]

Never heard a crappy defense reffered to as Mega Talent before.

You were talking about qbr not sure what defensive talent has to do with that...

 

[Ring 6]

Ok going by facts Manning has a better qb rating then Brady in the playoff's. So Brady should be ranked lower then Manning no matter what? QB rating is prolly the best way in determining a qb's performance. Anything else is just opinion. There are to many variables to consider wins and losses in this comparison. This is a team sport and defense is usually what wins championships. I do not see Denver going all the way this year. U can't rely on your offense to put up 35+ points every game.

QB Rating is a statistic designed for people who don't understand football to have a rudimentary metric that scrathes the surface of a statistcial analysis of some of the metrics in playing QB, arbirtrarily weighting categories to make it almost useless.
Manning has spit the bit in the playoffs consistently, it isn't even arguable.

 

[Kontradiction]

Never heard a crappy defense reffered to as Mega Talent before.

Did you even read his post? If not, my condolences on your blindness.

 

[chasa]

For some unknown reason, a lot of people here seems to hate Colin K, and will find any and every excuse to denigrate his accomplishments, crazy really.

it must be the tattoos.

 

[Cookenbauer]

QB Rating is a statistic designed for people who don't understand football to have a rudimentary metric that scrathes the surface of a statistcial analysis of some of the metrics in playing QB, arbirtrarily weighting categories to make it almost useless.
Manning has spit the bit in the playoffs consistently, it isn't even arguable.

Rating is definitely a flawed system. But using the terms of clutch and choking are even more flawed and are subject to circumstances that could have changed with the thousands of intangibles that happen in a football game.

Even if QBR doesn't tell the whole story...Manning and Brady are virtually identical in the rating department. So why are the records so different?

Manning has had some bad games in the playoffs no doubt. But he's also had some good games in which he lost...and some average/bad games in which he won.

Same with Brady. Same with Montana. Same with Elway.

You want to argue that Brady is better? Sure, there's a big argument to support that (and obviously on a Pats forum). But praising Brady like he's the most clutch and perfect QB ever in contrast to Manning who is a complete choker is simply wrong. It diminishes what happens to all 52 other players, coaching, lucky/unlucky bounces, and even the refs.

 

[Ring 6]

Rating is definitely a flawed system. But using the terms of clutch and choking are even more flawed and are subject to circumstances that could have changed with the thousands of intangibles that happen in a football game.

Something does not have to be expressed as a statistic to be valid.
If you have followed the NFL and do not think that Manning has consistently come up short in the playoffs, then there is no point having a discussion, and you can return to trying to craft meaningless statistics into to an argument to refute what has happened before our eyes with someone else, I'm not interested in that excerise in silliness.

Even if QBR doesn't tell the whole story...Manning and Brady are virtually identical in the rating department. So why are the records so different?

Either you know this answer and are being obtuse or you just don't understand the game.
Again, rating is a horrendous yardstick and meaningless in this context.
The records are so different because when a play is needed to be made to determine the outcome of a game Brady makes the play far more often than Manning does.

Manning has had some bad games in the playoffs no doubt. But he's also had some good games in which he lost...and some average/bad games in which he won.

Some good, some bad, some average describes everyone.

Same with Brady. Same with Montana. Same with Elway.

Limiting your intellect to statistics is where your argument becomes useless.

You want to argue that Brady is better?

There is no argument.

Sure, there's a big argument to support that (and obviously on a Pats forum).

An indisputable one.

But praising Brady like he's the most clutch and perfect QB ever in contrast to Manning who is a complete choker is simply wrong.

Who said that? Brady has been among the best ever in the post season. Manning has been mediocre.

It diminishes what happens to all 52 other players, coaching, lucky/unlucky bounces, and even the refs.

No it doesn't. Every player has a role, the QBs is the most vital. When one is among the winningest of all time and the other is less than .500 it IS about them.
Manning has made the playoffs 12 times (before this year)
He lost his first game 8 of 12 times. He made it to the SB twice. He won the SB once.
Brady has made the playoffs 10 times.
He lost his first game 2 of 10 times. He made it to the SB 5 times. He won 3 SBs.
The teams regular season success was similar. The surrounding talent on each team basically the same, with strengths and weaknesses in different areas.

 

[Cookenbauer]

Something does not have to be expressed as a statistic to be valid.
If you have followed the NFL and do not think that Manning has consistently come up short in the playoffs, then there is no point having a discussion, and you can return to trying to craft meaningless statistics into to an argument to refute what has happened before our eyes with someone else, I'm not interested in that excerise in silliness.


Either you know this answer and are being obtuse or you just don't understand the game.
Again, rating is a horrendous yardstick and meaningless in this context.
The records are so different because when a play is needed to be made to determine the outcome of a game Brady makes the play far more often than Manning does.


Some good, some bad, some average describes everyone.


Limiting your intellect to statistics is where your argument becomes useless.


There is no argument.



An indisputable one.


Who said that? Brady has been among the best ever in the post season. Manning has been mediocre.




No it doesn't. Every player has a role, the QBs is the most vital. When one is among the winningest of all time and the other is less than .500 it IS about them.
Manning has made the playoffs 12 times (before this year)
He lost his first game 8 of 12 times. He made it to the SB twice. He won the SB once.
Brady has made the playoffs 10 times.
He lost his first game 2 of 10 times. He made it to the SB 5 times. He won 3 SBs.
The teams regular season success was similar. The surrounding talent on each team basically the same, with strengths and weaknesses in different areas.

I do admit Manning has had some big let downs. But the narrative of saying every loss is on him like saying "another one and done" is dishonest.

You say Brady makes "the play" more often. Please show me how this is true. I've already mentioned how many times a Manning led score in the 4th quarter has been negated by a defense that has failed to close the deal. Of course this should feel familiar in the 2 Super Bowl losses the Pats had. If Asante makes the pick or The Pats recover one of the many fumbles in the 2nd Giants matchup, Brady is 5-0 in Superbows. But other than that...how many times does a Belichick defense let a QB like Billy Volek or Jay Fiedler drive down to tie the game in crunch time in the 4th? You would never ever see that. If the Colts defense makes those stops...Manning's record automatically improves drastically..even if he didn't do anything differently. It couldn't be any more evident than last year against the Ravens. Do you honestly think a BB coached team gives up that hail mary? What you DO see often enough is a play like Sterling Moore knocking out the go-ahead score against Lee Evans hands to win the 2011 AFCCG. You do see a Brady INT turn into a fumble that gives him another chance...and thus a "clutch" game tying drive that leads to another win. I can't remember a big time play in which the Colts ever made on defense in crunch time. I can name several from the Patriots. Feel free to provide examples of how I am wrong.

If you looked back and looked at common opponents that Manning and Brady faced, Manning puts up better numbers...yet has more losses. But I guess to you, the fact that the Colts have worse YPC, TOP, defensive PPG, special teams production doesn't mean anything to you.

 

[mpw8679]

You were talking about qbr not sure what defensive talent has to do with that...

I was referring to the whole team. I misunderstood. Please forgive me.