Positional ranking CB Pre Combine

[manxman2601]

There is more to this than just the "sack". It's about pressure and the threat of pressure. Making the opposing QB throw the ball before he is ready. It is the only way to beat elite QB's like Bress, Rogers, Manning and our own TB.

We don't necessarily need a 20 sack a year OLB, but we do need players that can pressure the QB on a consistent basis.

Opoosing QB's have too much time to throw on 5 and seven step drops.

Does anybody see any player on our team and think that A.) as a pass rusher he scares the opposing QB or B.) that the opposing team has to game plan for.

I use Mathews as an example a lot because he fills the examples of A.) and B.) that I mentioned earlier.

One more tidbit: Of the 6 Probowl OLB's this year, 5 were taken in the first round and none after the third.

While nothing is absolute, it becomes very apparent that we need to draft pass rushers and we should be doing it early.

I don't disagree with you except to say two things:

1) Historically BB doesn't address pass rush through the draft, rather chooses to go the FA route. I think it's more likely we'll see him go to that well.

2) There are really only two pass rushers carrying a 1st round grade atm. Upshaw could go as high as the mid-teens (do you want us to trade up that far?) and Whitney Mercilus commits us to a 4-3 which I don't think BB will want to do. I still think Andre Branch is our best bet at something resembling a pass rush this year, particularly as he seems to fit the other BB ideals for an OLB.

 

[MaineMan]

I think he really loves the smaller CB's that can change direction well. He usually drafts CB's with good 3 cone times. I think that one of McCourty's biggest problems was that he bulked up a bit too much in the offseason and it affected his ability to change direction.

His drafting of Dowling may be signaling a change in philosophy and thinking that a larger CB may actually hold up better against the taller receivers in the NFL today.

Three-cone times may be a fairly important piece, but of course, they're not likely the sole determining factor. As to BB going for taller guys now versus "smaller guys who are more agile", it may simply be the case that bigger guys are now training for and developing more agility and have started to catch up to the smaller guys.

I put together a couple of lists that folks may find amusing (all lists sorted according to 3-cone times). The first is of the top CB picks from the 2011 draft:

HGT WGT SS 3-cone PLAYER
6002 219 4.07 6.58 Peterson
6004 200 4.12 6.65 House
5117 204 4.07 6.72 J. Williams
5094 191 4.12 6.77 Harris
6013 198 4.26 6.85 Dowling
6008 199 4.08 6.88 Culliver
5095 204 4.39 6.90 M. Williams
6022 211 4.06 6.93 Smith
6000 206 4.08 6.97 Amukamara

This second list incorporates some of BB's recent CB draft picks:

HGT WGT SS 3-cone PLAYER
6002 219 4.07 6.58 Peterson
6004 200 4.12 6.65 House
5106 193 4.07 6.70 McCourty (2010)
5117 204 4.07 6.72 J. Williams
5095 187 4.20 6.74 Wheatley (2008)
5094 191 4.12 6.77 Harris
6013 198 4.26 6.85 Dowling
6008 199 4.08 6.88 Culliver
5095 204 4.39 6.90 M. Williams
5103 183 4.18 6.92 Butler (2009)
6022 211 4.06 6.93 Smith
6000 206 4.08 6.97 Amukamara
5094 185 4.41 7.17 Wilhite (2008)

This third list adds some Pats safeties and one "other":

HGT WGT SS 3-cone PLAYER
6002 219 4.07 6.58 Peterson
6005 210 4.10 6.58 S. Brown
6004 200 4.12 6.65 House
5106 193 4.07 6.70 McCourty
5117 204 4.07 6.72 J. Williams
5095 187 4.20 6.74 Wheatley
5094 191 4.12 6.77 Harris
5081 198 4.27 6.78 Ventrone
6021 238 4.10 6.78 Tarpinian
6013 198 4.26 6.85 Dowling
6008 199 4.08 6.88 Culliver
5095 204 4.39 6.90 M. Williams
5103 183 4.18 6.92 Butler
6022 211 4.06 6.93 Smith
6000 206 4.08 6.97 Amukamara
5105 195 4.33 7.06 Meriweather
6016 223 4.27 7.07 Barrett
5112 212 4.24 7.11 Chung
5094 185 4.41 7.17 Wilhite

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I don't disagree with you except to say two things:

1) Historically BB doesn't address pass rush through the draft, rather chooses to go the FA route. I think it's more likely we'll see him go to that well.

2) There are really only two pass rushers carrying a 1st round grade atm. Upshaw could go as high as the mid-teens (do you want us to trade up that far?) and Whitney Mercilus commits us to a 4-3 which I don't think BB will want to do. I still think Andre Branch is our best bet at something resembling a pass rush this year, particularly as he seems to fit the other BB ideals for an OLB.

Concerning #1, this is my original point. I think BB's refusal to draft pass rushers high is the single biggest contributing factor as to why our defense is the worst in the history of the NFL. And while his current reliance on veteran retreads is understandable, it's his refusal to start a development pipeline that is NOT acceptable, and that is why I think he is mentally damaged when it comes to this position.

Concerning #2, Pass rushers are a valuable commodity and I suspect once the combine proves how athletic some guys are, we will see them rise fast and very high. A couple of years ago Chris Long made it all the way to #2 or #3.
Two things happening now are Upshaw is rising due to his playmaking ability and the super strong tape of this past season.
So we have to look at the next tier of pass rushers: Mercelious has had a good year and if he performs well at the comine, I expect him to rise into the top 25.
The guys I have my eye on are as follows:
First is Montgomery of LSU. If the 6'4" is legit, he has the length we need. At 245 pounds, he is a bit light for us, but after a year in the pro S&C program, he will have the size we desire. Here is the extra that he brings, he runs a 4.5 forty. Two questions I need answerd on him. Is he sudden enough and are his playmaking stats this past year overinflated because of Claiborne and the honey badger patrolling the secondary.
Second is Curry of Marshall. 100% motor 100% of the time and has some suddenness to his game. Brings sdome run defense as well as pass rushing to our defense. He needs to get stronger and needs a lot of work on technique. The big question I have for him is can he make the jump in level of competition. It's a half step from LSU to the pros, but a good two and half steps from Marshall to the pros.

 

[borisman]

Might as well put Casey Hayward on the list of possible CB's to look at in the draft. He was like a magnet on Cinci receivers until they started to thrown away from him. Very quick but very slight so I'll put him in the underrated catagory. Good player in late second/early third round area.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Might as well put Casey Hayward on the list of possible CB's to look at in the draft. He was like a magnet on Cinci receivers until they started to thrown away from him. Very quick but very slight so I'll put him in the underrated catagory. Good player in late second/early third round area.

He did have a good bowl game and he has had a pretty good season as well.

I also thought CB Banks of Miss State had a decent bowl game and season. He gave up next to nothing deep all season.

 

[manxman2601]

For those who didn't see Oklahoma - Iowa, you may want to watch this:

Jamell Fleming vs Iowa 2011 - YouTube

This is a fourth to fifth rounder apparently. One of OTG's favourites and I can see why.