Positional ranking CB Pre Combine

[Ochmed Jones]

Really deep draft for this position.

Positional Requirements: Tackling,coverage and communication.

Rankings:

1.) Claiborne - LSU - Gone long before we draft. Second best CB in college. Unfortunately the honey badger is #1 and he plays opposite Claiborne. Top 10 pick.
2.) Kirkpatrick - Alabama. Not afraid of run support and outstanding in coverage. Top 15 pick.
3.) Dennard - Nebraska - Outstanding player. Top 20 pick.
4.) Minnifield - Virginia - Always take the opposing team's best receiver. Late first to early second round.
5.) Gilmore - SC - Interesting would be #1 FS if switched position. Mid second round.
6.) Hosley - VT - Shorter and lighter than preferred. Injury risk player. Mid second round.
7.) Banks -Miss State - Nice size and decent speed. Around the ball. Late second to early third round.
8.) Judie - Texas A&M - pure zone player. Hammy injury this past year. Third round.
9.) Boykin - Georgia - Speed,speed and more speed. Great return guy. Third round.
10.) Prater - Iowa - All around solid player. Only5'10", but BB likes that size CB. Third round.

Sleeper: Johnson - Montana Big, bit slow, would be much higher as a FS.

 

[MP-Logick]

We know BB likes corners from Virginia in the second round... :singing:

 

[State]

LSU's Claiborne looks like such a stud. I'm wondering if the Patriots evaluate him as being potentially a shut-down corner and, accordingly, offer to trade both firsts and no doubt another high (not a second, I hope) pick to move up if he falls a few pegs.

Each draft BB does something unexpected. This year's draft sets the stage for the next two or three years. It'll be fascinating to watch. Four picks in the first two rounds! I think most of us would prefer staying put and collecting as much talent as we can.

It doesn't seem to me that the talent on the defensive side isn't quite as high as it was last year. Am I wrong?

 

[NePatriots]

Leonard Johnson - CB - Iowa State.

When I asked Justin Blackmon about him after the OSU/ISU game, JB praised him as the most physical corner he'd played against. LJ more than held his own against Blackmon and got the better of Iowa's Marvin McNutt as well.

As an Iowa alum, it pains me to say that to have Johnson behind Prater (who had an average year at best) is borderline criminal.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Really deep draft for this position.

Positional Requirements: Tackling,coverage and communication.

Rankings:

1.) Claiborne - LSU - Gone long before we draft. Second best CB in college. Unfortunately the honey badger is #1 and he plays opposite Claiborne. Top 10 pick.
2.) Kirkpatrick - Alabama. Not afraid of run support and outstanding in coverage. Top 15 pick.
3.) Dennard - Nebraska - Outstanding player. Top 20 pick.
4.) Minnifield - Virginia - Always take the opposing team's best receiver. Late first to early second round.
5.) Gilmore - SC - Interesting would be #1 FS if switched position. Mid second round.
6.) Hosley - VT - Shorter and lighter than preferred. Injury risk player. Mid second round.
7.) Banks -Miss State - Nice size and decent speed. Around the ball. Late second to early third round.
8.) Judie - Texas A&M - pure zone player. Hammy injury this past year. Third round.
9.) Boykin - Georgia - Speed,speed and more speed. Great return guy. Third round.
10.) Prater - Iowa - All around solid player. Only5'10", but BB likes that size CB. Third round.

Sleeper: Johnson - Montana Big, bit slow, would be much higher as a FS.

Doubt if we would draft him. RED flags. But, many people have Janoris Jenkins around that 3rd or 4th cb. Got into trouble at Florida and transferred to N. Alabama so he didnt have to sit a year. Did you leave him off the list intentionally?

 

[mrscruff]

We know BB likes corners from Virginia in the second round... :singing:

He also has bloodlines. His father was Pro Bowl cornerback, Frank Minnifield of the Cleveland Browns who finished his career in 1992 when BB was head coach.

 

[SyN65]

If we draft another DB in the first 2 rounds I'm throwing my TV out the window.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Doubt if we would draft him. RED flags. But, many people have Janoris Jenkins around that 3rd or 4th cb. Got into trouble at Florida and transferred to N. Alabama so he didnt have to sit a year. Did you leave him off the list intentionally?

Yes, He is off my board completely due to repeated red flags.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If we draft another DB in the first 2 rounds I'm throwing my TV out the window.

Say goodbye to your TV, because I think BB is going to grab more DB's this spring.

We all want to project pass rushers, but let's face the facts, BB is a mentally damaged individual when it comes to drafting for the OLB position. He insists on passing on tons of talent year after year.

Who on this board would rather have Cunningham or Moore or Cater or Anderson instead of Mathews? And please don;t tell us about Mathews having issues against the run and in coverage in he was coming out. In the bottom of the first round ALL players have warts. It's BB and the coaching staff's job to coach up these players.

Is BB trying to say that he has no faith in his coaching staff's ability to coach up an OLB?
No, that makes no sense! Therefore clearly BB has some sort of mental damage when it comes to this position. Why else would he use veteran retreads over high draft picks that he can coach up and develop?

 

[manxman2601]

Say goodbye to your TV, because I think BB is going to grab more DB's this spring.

We all want to project pass rushers, but let's face the facts, BB is a mentally damaged individual when it comes to drafting for the OLB position. He insists on passing on tons of talent year after year.

Who on this board would rather have Cunningham or Moore or Cater or Anderson instead of Mathews? And please don;t tell us about Mathews having issues against the run and in coverage in he was coming out. In the bottom of the first round ALL players have warts. It's BB and the coaching staff's job to coach up these players.

Is BB trying to say that he has no faith in his coaching staff's ability to coach up an OLB?
No, that makes no sense! Therefore clearly BB has some sort of mental damage when it comes to this position. Why else would he use veteran retreads over high draft picks that he can coach up and develop?

1. The problem for the Patriots D is not that we don't have a hairy ape charging round the field like his hair's on fire, it's that perenially picking at the bottom of the draft means we have a defense of almost universally average talent.

2. If it takes mental derangement to be one of the winningnest coaches in NFL history then sign me up for the funny farm.

3. I would suggest that obsessing about BB and his lack of desire to draft pure pass rushers is a form of mental derangement itself. It's not going to happen so why worry about it. The question is, are you happy to accept that we're never going to have a dominant sack artist on the team or do you want BB replaced? Those appear to be your options.

4. you keep referencing Clay Matthews but the fact is, the Packers are the 31st best defense in the NFL and the Packers have less sacks than the Patriots. I think his value is being somewhat overrated.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

BB loves his munchkin cornerbacks. I-Dowling was a rare exception.

Chances are, he's going to reach for yet another 5'9" 185 lbs DB.

 

[SyN65]

BB loves his munchkin cornerbacks. I-Dowling was a rare exception.

Chances are, he's going to reach for yet another 5'9" 185 lbs DB.

I disagree. He USED to like munchkin CB's. Dowling is 6'1" I believe and Bodden was 6'0". McCourty is 5'10" which is about average height for a CB.

I think he's transitioning to taller/bigger DB's who are more physical.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

BB loves his munchkin cornerbacks. I-Dowling was a rare exception.

Chances are, he's going to reach for yet another 5'9" 185 lbs DB.

I think he really loves the smaller CB's that can change direction well. He usually drafts CB's with good 3 cone times. I think that one of McCourty's biggest problems was that he bulked up a bit too much in the offseason and it affected his ability to change direction.

His drafting of Dowling may be signaling a change in philosophy and thinking that a larger CB may actually hold up better against the taller receivers in the NFL today.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

1. The problem for the Patriots D is not that we don't have a hairy ape charging round the field like his hair's on fire, it's that perenially picking at the bottom of the draft means we have a defense of almost universally average talent.

2. If it takes mental derangement to be one of the winningnest coaches in NFL history then sign me up for the funny farm.

3. I would suggest that obsessing about BB and his lack of desire to draft pure pass rushers is a form of mental derangement itself. It's not going to happen so why worry about it. The question is, are you happy to accept that we're never going to have a dominant sack artist on the team or do you want BB replaced? Those appear to be your options.

4. you keep referencing Clay Matthews but the fact is, the Packers are the 31st best defense in the NFL and the Packers have less sacks than the Patriots. I think his value is being somewhat overrated.

Think back to last year's agonizing loss to the Jets in the playoffs. Think about all the time Sanchez had to pick apart our defense.

Now think about this year's teams ability to get to the QB and add in the fact that Carter is lost for the season. Wouldn't a big hairy ape like Sheard comiong off the edge make you feel a whole lot better than Moore or Ellis?

Now think back to the Miami game last week. What happened in the first half? Brady got pressured relentlessly and we got zero points.

Do the math and get back to me when you have figured it out.

 

[SyN65]

1. The problem for the Patriots D is not that we don't have a hairy ape charging round the field like his hair's on fire, it's that perenially picking at the bottom of the draft means we have a defense of almost universally average talent.

Pats routinely have the most picks of any team every year. Not only that but they have a ton of picks in the upper part (1st, 2nd, 3rd) of the draft. They have the ammo to get anyone they want. (Outside of the top 10) I really don't see how you can consider 1st/2nd/3rd rounders "average" talent.

2. If it takes mental derangement to be one of the winningnest coaches in NFL history then sign me up for the funny farm.

I think he's referencing how BB seemingly ignores the pass rushing need EVERY year in the draft. The last pass rusher he drafted was Cunningham I believe (Over Dunlap ), a future bust.

3. I would suggest that obsessing about BB and his lack of desire to draft pure pass rushers is a form of mental derangement itself. It's not going to happen so why worry about it. The question is, are you happy to accept that we're never going to have a dominant sack artist on the team or do you want BB replaced? Those appear to be your options.

I for one am not happy to accept it. I'm not expecting a Demarcus Ware or some future HOF'er (would be nice ) but a couple young guys who can get after the QB would be nice.

4. you keep referencing Clay Matthews but the fact is, the Packers are the 31st best defense in the NFL and the Packers have less sacks than the Patriots. I think his value is being somewhat overrated.

Clay Matthews is a play maker, though. Something we desperately need on defense. He may not have a ton of sacks but last I heard he had the most QB pressures in the league this year.

Side note: It's almost like this board knows more than BB does about pass rushers, lol.

Matthews, Barwin, and Brooks Reed were thought highly of on this board. Barwin has 11.5 sacks and Reed has 6.0 this year. A big reason for the resurgence of Houston's D. I would love that kind of production on the Pats.

 

[SyN65]

Think back to last year's agonizing loss to the Jets in the playoffs. Think about all the time Sanchez had to pick apart our defense.

Now think about this year's teams ability to get to the QB and add in the fact that Carter is lost for the season. Wouldn't a big hairy ape like Sheard comiong off the edge make you feel a whole lot better than Moore or Ellis?

Now think back to the Miami game last week. What happened in the first half? Brady got pressured relentlessly and we got zero points.

Do the math and get back to me when you have figured it out.

Exactly. Everyone says the "Blue Print" to beating TB is to pressure him.

Newsflash: The blue print to beating ANY QB is to pressure them! I'll take a dominant pass rush over a dominant secondary any day of the week.

 

[manxman2601]

Think back to last year's agonizing loss to the Jets in the playoffs. Think about all the time Sanchez had to pick apart our defense.

Now think about this year's teams ability to get to the QB and add in the fact that Carter is lost for the season. Wouldn't a big hairy ape like Sheard comiong off the edge make you feel a whole lot better than Moore or Ellis?

Now think back to the Miami game last week. What happened in the first half? Brady got pressured relentlessly and we got zero points.

Do the math and get back to me when you have figured it out.

Did the math and here's what I came up with.

The last two years, the Patriots have ranked approximately half way in the team sacks table. Last year we had no recognised sack-meister, this year Andre Carter so I'm not convinced adding a sack artist necessarily correlates with increased sack totals. It just makes your defense more one dimensional.

I'm all for us drafting someone who can get after the QB, and I'm sure BB recognises the utility of an improved pass rush too. However, he, and I think he's right, is not prepared to compromise a team orientated defense nor a draft strategy that has been years in the making.

If I remember rightly, there was no BB type OLB in last years draft. There are potentially 2-4 this year in Cam Johnson, Andre Branch, Brandon Jenkins and Vinny Curry so perhaps this year you might get your wish.

 

[Patriot Missile]

If I remember rightly, there was no BB type OLB in last years draft. There are potentially 2-4 this year in Cam Johnson, Andre Branch, Brandon Jenkins and Vinny Curry so continue holding your breath.

There, fixed it for you.

 

[manxman2601]

The problem is, the league overvalues pass rush. The Patriots draft philosophy is predicated on matching the value of the player to the position in which they are picking - they don't necessarily target specific players. Now if the league is overvaluing pass rushers, it's unlikely that there are going to be many times that there's a value match between the rusher and the Patriots pick.

Take Jabaal Sheard last year. My understanding, and i might be wrong here, is that the Patriots liked Sheard but A) they had Dowling rated higher and only had a mid to late second round grade on Sheard. add to this that the Patriots were considering moving down into the mid-second (the purported failed SF trade deal) and it's very possible that they would have taken Sheard at SF's pick #45 if he'd been available.

It's a reasonable argument to make that the Pats should place a higher emphasis on pass rush in the way they value prospects but until they do, the Pats are likely to lose out on pass rushers because other teams value them so much higher, meaning a prospect never drops to a position where the Patriots feel they get the right value.

Hope that made sense.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The problem is, the league overvalues pass rush. The Patriots draft philosophy is predicated on matching the value of the player to the position in which they are picking - they don't necessarily target specific players. Now if the league is overvaluing pass rushers, it's unlikely that there are going to be many times that there's a value match between the rusher and the Patriots pick.

There is more to this than just the "sack". It's about pressure and the threat of pressure. Making the opposing QB throw the ball before he is ready. It is the only way to beat elite QB's like Bress, Rogers, Manning and our own TB.

We don't necessarily need a 20 sack a year OLB, but we do need players that can pressure the QB on a consistent basis.

Opoosing QB's have too much time to throw on 5 and seven step drops.

Does anybody see any player on our team and think that A.) as a pass rusher he scares the opposing QB or B.) that the opposing team has to game plan for.

I use Mathews as an example a lot because he fills the examples of A.) and B.) that I mentioned earlier.

One more tidbit: Of the 6 Probowl OLB's this year, 5 were taken in the first round and none after the third.

While nothing is absolute, it becomes very apparent that we need to draft pass rushers and we should be doing it early.