POLL: Caleb Williams or Drake Maye?

[upstater1]

People are really dissecting Caleb Williams' game in very odd ways. They see him as jittery in the pocket? He's the QB who is the most composed of all in the pocket. He's the guy who scans the fields and goes through his progressions.

Just because you see him on the run back there doesn't mean he's flushing out too early. Conclusions are being drawn quickly.

Remember, he had excellent receivers last year and he looked otherworldly. This year he's had to do things more on his own.

I fell like the type of scrutiny on him lately is the same thing that caused Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers to drop so far after good junior years. Especially Marino who was just as incredible as Williams as a junior. Both players had worse senior years and too much time for the draftniks to pick apart their games.

This is also true of Maye who was much better last year when he had Josh Downs around.

 

[Real fan 02]

Reread your posts. When you're sober

Absolutely could you let me know what sober home helped you?

 

[VJCPatriot]

We might be out of the running for Williams/Maye now but a new QB is rising up the draft ranks - meet Jayden Daniels.

The Kid threw for 3,800 yards and 40 TDs in the air and rushed for 1,100 yards on the ground with 10 rushing TDs.



He's an electric playmaker and could be just what the Patriots need at #4.

One AFC executive said to me, 'Jayden's actually pulling away from Maye in my eyes. He's got rare deep accuracy. He's an explosive runner who's a pocket passer. I look at him like Deshaun Watson that way.' An NFC executive said to me, 'The gap's not very big anymore, but Jayden has to go to a team that will build around his skill set like the Colts did with Anthony Richardson. He's gonna go early.' I asked if that means top 10. He said yes. And then another AFC exec, a third guy, said there's not much difference between the two as prospects, even though they are different as players."

Article: MSN

 

[Boston Boxer]

I think this is definitely the case for Penix.

Penix Jr has always been a good QB, but he is 50 years old and had multiple surgeries on multiple body parts. If he drops into the 4th or 5th round (he wont) i would take him there. I think JJ McCarthy and Bo Nix are really good second tier QBs after Williams, Maye, and Daniels

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Penix Jr has always been a good QB, but he is 50 years old and had multiple surgeries on multiple body parts. If he drops into the 4th or 5th round (he wont) i would take him there. I think JJ McCarthy and Bo Nix are really good second tier QBs after Williams, Maye, and Daniels

I think we get one of the top 3 but I'd settle for Bo Nix, based on the games I've watched.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I think we get one of the top 3 but I'd settle for Bo Nix, based on the games I've watched.

May be the best alternative if that means we landed an OT or offensive weapon to go with him.

 

[Steve102]

This is where I am at right now....

Gonna do my Daniels research.....

Yeah, Daniels, Nix, Penix, McCarthy and Ewers are all in play from my desk.

 

[upstater1]

Just FYI for the proponents of trading back: ESPN's football scout/guru Miller seems to think there are only 14 players in this year's draft with 1st round grades. It doesn't mean it's a week draft, but it's just not heavy at the top. Not as heavy as last year's anyway. This has always been a problem for teams picking outside the top 20. In the Strange draft of 22, it was pretty clear that the run on LTs signaled the end of 1st round talents. Look at all the players taken in the 20s (several are busts, like Elam; while others are just now developing; there are no bonafides hit yet).

 

[VJCPatriot]

edit

 

[VJCPatriot]

Just FYI for the proponents of trading back: ESPN's football scout/guru Miller seems to think there are only 14 players in this year's draft with 1st round grades. It doesn't mean it's a week draft, but it's just not heavy at the top. Not as heavy as last year's anyway. This has always been a problem for teams picking outside the top 20. In the Strange draft of 22, it was pretty clear that the run on LTs signaled the end of 1st round talents. Look at all the players taken in the 20s (several are busts, like Elam; while others are just now developing; there are no bonafides hit yet).

The excuses for BB's bad drafting just needs to STOP.

Patriots moved down from 21 to take Cole Strange at 29.

'22 Draft Day 1: Patriots trade down, then make Strange pick

Recapping what the Patriots did during Round 1 of the 2022 NFL Draft.

www.patriots.com

So you're telling me there were no better players taken in that range or after than Cole Strange?

How About George Karliftis who was taken at #30 by KC

You're telling me you'd rather have Cole "taken too early" Strange over the talented young KC defensive end who's sitting on 9 sacks for the season and is just gonna get better?

George Karliftis: George Karlaftis III Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[upstater1]

The excuses for BB's bad drafting just needs to STOP.

Patriots moved down from 21 to take Cole Strange at 29.

'22 Draft Day 1: Patriots trade down, then make Strange pick

Recapping what the Patriots did during Round 1 of the 2022 NFL Draft.

www.patriots.com

So you're telling me there were no better players taken in that range or after than Cole Strange?

How About George Karliftis who was taken at #30 by KC

You're telling me you'd rather have Cole "taken too early" Strange over the talented young KC defensive end who's sitting on 9 sacks for the season and is just gonna get better?

George Karliftis: George Karlaftis III Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

#1, Karlaftis isn't a fit here because he can't set the edge.
#2, you know what KC thinks of Karlaftis since they drafted his replacement in the 1st round the very next year
#3, no one here was talking about Karlaftis as the choice in that year. We were talking about Kaiir Elam, Devin Lloyd, and Daxton Hill. You can obviously tell that draft was full of 2nd rounders past pick 20.

There was a lot of talk about taking an LT that year at the spot, but all 6 LTs were taken by the time we got to our pick, and I bet they were surprised that even Penning rose into the top 20.

But in retrospect it's obvious the 2022 draft from pick 20-40 was a no man's land of 2nd round values.

 

[VJCPatriot]

#1, Karlaftis isn't a fit here because he can't set the edge.

Dinosaur thinking. You don't use a pass rusher to set the edge. You use them to rush the passer on passing downs. That's why sub packages exist in the NFL. In fact a lot of teams specialize in using sub packages for specific situations now.

Again you're trying to fish up excuses for BB and I'm not buying it.

The Patriots past 10 years of drafting duds under BB has caught up to us. We're 4-11 and all the spin doctoring in the world doesn't fix this situation. BB isn't qualified to shop for groceries anymore.

 

[upstater1]

Dinosaur thinking. You don't use a pass rusher to set the edge. You use them to rush the passer on passing downs. That's why sub packages exist in the NFL. In fact a lot of teams specialize in using sub packages for specific situations now.

Again you're trying to fish up excuses for BB and I'm not buying it.

The Patriots past 10 years of drafting duds under BB has caught up to us. We're 4-11 and all the spin doctoring in the world doesn't fix this situation. BB isn't qualified to shop for groceries anymore.

Absurd. You're using a 1st rounder on a sub package rusher who can't play on early downs. You call that dinosaur thinking but instead it's the reality of how the vast majority of teams construct their defense.

This is why the Bills have consistently expended a huge amount of resources at that position despite the fact they have excellent sub-package rushers in Epenesa, Miller and Lawson. They can't find the guy who can play early down and set the edge.

Again, the Chiefs are telling you flat out they need that guy because they just took a 1st rounder this year at Karlaftis's position, and Karlaftis is in for 2/3rds of the game as Omenihu takes a lot of his snaps as well

 

[VJCPatriot]

Absurd. You're using a 1st rounder on a sub package rusher who can't play on early downs. You call that dinosaur thinking but instead it's the reality of how the vast majority of teams construct their defense.

Again with the dinosaur thinking. Patriots use sub packages a higher percentage of the time than their base defense.

Let's look at the snap count for the Patriots win over the Bills this year.

Barmore only played on 63% of snaps.



Does that make him a waste of a 1st round pick?

Not when you consider IMPACT on the game. He was a perfectly viable use of a 1st round pick.

Now imagine if we had BOTH Barmore and Karliftis on this defense? Our defense would be giving QBs nightmares.

He would certainly have been useful with Judon missing the rest of the season!

Wake up and smell the coffee. NFL teams use sub packages ALL the time for the right situation. It's called specialization.

I'm not even making the argument that Karlifitis is the ONLY guy we could have drafted that would be BETTER for the Patriots now than Strange. I'm sure there were more. He's just the most obvious example of BB blundering in the draft yet again because he was taken only 1 choice AFTER Strange.

Bottom line you can never have too many pass rushers and they impact the game more than a mediocre guard even if they don't get as many snaps per game.

If Cole Strange played like Logan Mankins, nobody would be complaining right now but he's NOT. In the end he's very mediocre and represents yet another wasted opportunity in the 1st round.

 

[upstater1]

Again with the dinosaur thinking. Patriots use sub packages a higher percentage of the time than their base defense.

Let's look at the snap count for the Patriots win over the Bills this year.

Barmore only played on 63% of snaps.

View attachment 55480

Does that make him a waste of a 1st round pick?

Not when you consider IMPACT on the game. He was a perfectly viable use of a 1st round pick.

Now imagine if we had BOTH Barmore and Karliftis on this defense? Our defense would be giving QBs nightmares.

He would certainly have been useful with Judon missing the rest of the season!

Wake up and smell the coffee. NFL teams use specialized packages ALL the time for the right situation. It's called specialization.

I'm not even making the argument that Karlifitis is the ONLY guy we could have drafted that would be BETTER for the Patriots now than Strange. I'm sure there were more. He's just the most obvious example of BB blundering in the draft yet again because he was taken only 1 choice AFTER Strange.

Bottom line you can never have too many pass rushers and they impact the game more than a mediocre guard even if they don't get as many snaps per game.

A DT is different than an edge/pass rusher.

These are 2 totally different things. On 3rd down, you pull DTs for guys like Uche.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

But I'll go back to 2022: no one wanted to take Karlaftis of any people on Patsfans.

 

[JohnJH]

View attachment 55448

Need QB:
Redskins
Pats
Giants
Titans

As long as we don't drop below both the Titans and Giants we should have a chance at one of the 3 QB's. Problem is it'll be the third of three rather than us in the driving seat for our top pick.

Unless a team trades-up ahead of us for one of those QB's.

 

[JohnJH]

The excuses for BB's bad drafting just needs to STOP.

Patriots moved down from 21 to take Cole Strange at 29.

'22 Draft Day 1: Patriots trade down, then make Strange pick

Recapping what the Patriots did during Round 1 of the 2022 NFL Draft.

www.patriots.com

So you're telling me there were no better players taken in that range or after than Cole Strange?

How About George Karliftis who was taken at #30 by KC

You're telling me you'd rather have Cole "taken too early" Strange over the talented young KC defensive end who's sitting on 9 sacks for the season and is just gonna get better?

George Karliftis: George Karlaftis III Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Spot-On!!!

 

[VJCPatriot]

But I'll go back to 2022: no one wanted to take Karlaftis of any people on Patsfans.

How is that even relevant? As I recall Karlaftis was considered one of the top tier pass rushers of that class.

But sure if you want to play that game I'll do some digging.

Found it. Let me refer you to one of our most highly regarded draft evaluators on this forum.

BGC had Karliftis in his 1A tier, of Pass rushers for the 2022 NFL draft class. Point DEBUNKED!



Thread:

BGC 2022 Rush/PTP Thread

What a rush class! Throwback size with future speed. Loaded, top heavy and deep. 2-5 1st round potential prospects and another 3-4 that look top 40-50 worthy. Outstanding size-versatility, some of these guys are so big, once they really figure out what they're doing you'll have fun moving them...

www.patsfans.com

 

[upstater1]

How is that even relevant? As I recall Karlaftis was considered one of the top tier pass rushers of that class.

But sure if you want to play that game I'll do some digging.

Found it. Let me refer you to one of our most highly regarded draft evaluators on this forum.

BGC had Karliftis in his 1A tier, of Pass rushers for the 2022 NFL draft class. Point DEBUNKED!

View attachment 55481

Thread:

BGC 2022 Rush/PTP Thread

What a rush class! Throwback size with future speed. Loaded, top heavy and deep. 2-5 1st round potential prospects and another 3-4 that look top 40-50 worthy. Outstanding size-versatility, some of these guys are so big, once they really figure out what they're doing you'll have fun moving them...

www.patsfans.com

How does this debunk anything????

People weren't clamoring for him. That's what I wrote

 

[Betterthanmost]

So both decided not to play in the bowl game? Hmm... I think it is a sure way to get off BB's board.