Phase III is upon us...

[mcsully]

McSully, I'm sorry, but you are 100% incorrect regarding Vrabel. Vrabel didn't learn the position in weeks. That is a such a huge exaggeration.

1) Vrabel hasdbeen in the Pats system for 4 years. As part of the system, you are supposed to know what your teammates are going to be doing.
2) Vrabel has had some ILB assingments previously, including lining up as the 3 ILB in the 3-5-3 set that the Pats used in the SB.
3) Vrabel was given the ILB play-book in the off-season. BB's intention, before Vrabel got hurt in TC, was to have Vrabel practicing there so that he could be there to start the season.
4) Beisel had NEVER played a full season at ILB. He spent 9 games as the MLB for KC. And you know that MLB is different than ILB.

I see your points but it still comes to the conclusion that Vrabel never looked this bad on the field (which is the point) Biesel looks lost and missed tackles.. Missing assignments is one thing, missing tackles is A MAJOR issue. So you can look at it at different angles but Biesel can't shed blocks and misses tackles..

 

[mcsully]

McSully -
And the Pats were playing the 4-3 during the 2001 season. They were NOT in the 3-4 at that point. And Cox only played for the Pats for 1 season.

NOT TRUE.. The were not a 3-4 team but they played it an aweful lot.. AN AWEFUL LOT!

edit *** guess i'm replying to the same person.. heheheh..

My stance is that Biesel hasn't shown anything and probably won't. Other players under billicheck (under different sets, 3-4,4-3), were able to pick up the defense and contribute.
Brian cox in 4 weeks was named a starter and team captain. Biesel lost his starting position and never regained it.. Barely even got into the rotation. So unless a freak miracle occurs, I say he doesn't contribute to the starting team.

 

[patman52]

Both Cox and Phifer played in the system with the jets under BB/BP.

 

[Dragda]

I don’t expect the Pats to make a big splash in free agency, nor do I expect a lot of June 1, salary cap cuts to become available. However, looking at the current roster the Pats could still pick up a few middle tier FAs.

There are plenty of possibilities out there. All BB has to do is ask Pioli who they should target for any position and Scott would pull out a short list.

So, are you in Malaysia? I will be there tomorrow in KL and PJ for the next week. Hot there now, isn't it?

 

[dryheat44]

i would piss my pants if we got keith bulluck
i doubt that he will be let go though

I think I was the originator (or hope-inflator, if you will) of this rumor.

We had a chance to get him if

A) The CBA didn't get extended, and
B) The Titans wanted to keep McNair

In that scenario, the Titans would have almost certainly had to cut Bullock. Things developing as they did, there's no chance.

It's too bad. I think he's the best linebacker in the NFL, bar none.

 

[DaBruinz]

I see your points but it still comes to the conclusion that Vrabel never looked this bad on the field (which is the point) Biesel looks lost and missed tackles.. Missing assignments is one thing, missing tackles is A MAJOR issue. So you can look at it at different angles but Biesel can't shed blocks and misses tackles..

What you are ignoring is that Beisel had NEVEr played ILB before. Not one down. Yes, he'd been a MLB with KC, but only for 9 games. So, not only was he learning a new defense, but he was learning a whole new position. One that previous players took more than a year to learn. Bruschi said it took him 2 years to get fully comfortable. And that was with having 4 years of OLB experience in the Pats system.

 

[DaBruinz]

NOT TRUE.. The were not a 3-4 team but they played it an aweful lot.. AN AWEFUL LOT!

edit *** guess i'm replying to the same person.. heheheh..

My stance is that Biesel hasn't shown anything and probably won't. Other players under billicheck (under different sets, 3-4,4-3), were able to pick up the defense and contribute.
Brian cox in 4 weeks was named a starter and team captain. Biesel lost his starting position and never regained it.. Barely even got into the rotation. So unless a freak miracle occurs, I say he doesn't contribute to the starting team.

Sorry, McSully, but the Patritos did NOT play an awful lot of 3-4 in 2001. That is a falsehood on your part. They attempted to play it, with Seymour lining up there, but that was a rarity. Its why they went out and got Steve Martin to play the NT position in 2002.

Cox was a reserve by the end of the year because he broke his leg. Cox also had how many years playing in a Belichick system before coming to the Pats? At least 4 years.

You aren't comparing apple to apples when you compare Beisel to Cox or Beisel to Vrabel.

 

[the taildragger]

notable June 1 prospects from Pat Kirwan:

WR:
Ricky Proehl (25 catches, 441 yards, ,four TDs)
Johnnie Morton (21 catches, 288 yards)
Kevin Johnson (17 catches, 133 yards)
Randy Hymes (11 catches, 132 yards, two TDs)

OL:
Ross Verba, Victor Riley, Kurt Vollers, Ethan Brooks (T)
Matt Stinchcomb, Tupe Peko and Ron Stone (G)
Cory Raymer, Kendyl Jacox or even Jeff Mitchell (C)

DL (interior):
Grady Jackson
Brentson Buckner.

DL (end):
Brady Smith
Eric Ogbogu
Kemp Rasmussen.

LB:
Tommy Polley
Barrett Green
Peter Boulware

CB:
Ty Law
Ahmed Plummer
Dexter McCleon
Kevin Thomas

S:
Lance Schulters
Keion Carpenter
Brent Alexander
Ronnie Heard
Jerry Wilson
Antuan Edwards

 

[mcsully]

Sorry, McSully, but the Patritos did NOT play an awful lot of 3-4 in 2001. That is a falsehood on your part. They attempted to play it, with Seymour lining up there, but that was a rarity. Its why they went out and got Steve Martin to play the NT position in 2002.

Cox was a reserve by the end of the year because he broke his leg. Cox also had how many years playing in a Belichick system before coming to the Pats? At least 4 years.

You aren't comparing apple to apples when you compare Beisel to Cox or Beisel to Vrabel.

How is it a falseshood. The pats play a lot of 3-4. Go back and look at the games and tackles and who led the team in tackles.. Its not incorrect statement. I'm looking at the highligh film I purchased, 3 games to glory, looked at stats, even went to every game and see that they play a lot of 3-4. I remember because Vrabel was all over the field playing OLB in the 3-4 set.. And the ted stuffed the middle that year..

On the next part about biesel playing MLB or ILB. My main point wasn't the position but the lack of his ability to make tackles and look lost. He missed A LOT, and I MEAN A LOT of tackles last year.

I respectfully disagree with you and will hold this thread until the end of next season. I'll make a bet with you. If you believe this guy is as good as you believe. Lets make a deal. I will an avatar of your picking if Biesel is a regular contributor/starter. If I win and he is a bust, which I think he will be, you must wear an avatar of my choice.. Deal?

 

[mcsully]

What you are ignoring is that Beisel had NEVEr played ILB before. Not one down. Yes, he'd been a MLB with KC, but only for 9 games. So, not only was he learning a new defense, but he was learning a whole new position. One that previous players took more than a year to learn. Bruschi said it took him 2 years to get fully comfortable. And that was with having 4 years of OLB experience in the Pats system.

BTW what does it say when biesel couldnt' break into a lineup with a team that is known for being the worse in the league for defense.. not much in my opinion..

 

[shakadave]

My stance is that Biesel hasn't shown anything and probably won't.

Bruinz, thanks for the support. I didn't think I was off base.

Sully, we're not saying Beisel had a good year last year. Our whole point is that it would have been surprising for him to have had a good year under those circumstances, so new to the Pats 3-4. We're not even promising he'll have a good year this year. But at least in his second year in the system, he'll have a CHANCE to be good. (Third year would really be the key year to shine IMO.) I don't think anyone new to the team this year is likely to vault ahead of Beisel on the ILB depth chart, since they'll be a year behind him in learning the system.

 

[mcsully]

Bruinz, thanks for the support. I didn't think I was off base.

Sully, we're not saying Beisel had a good year last year. Our whole point is that it would have been surprising for him to have had a good year under those circumstances, so new to the Pats 3-4. We're not even promising he'll have a good year this year. But at least in his second year in the system, he'll have a CHANCE to be good. (Third year would really be the key year to shine IMO.) I don't think anyone new to the team this year is likely to vault ahead of Beisel on the ILB depth chart, since they'll be a year behind him in learning the system.

Fair enough. That being said, the team is still not set and a trade or free agent pickup could be in the cards. What we have seen of him hasn't been good in anytime in his career. That being said, if he doesn't produce now quickly, he'll won't be around long enough..