PFT Speculates on Moss

[R_T26]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
The one team that readers have asked about the most is the Patriots. Though Moss doesn't fit with the team's whole no-turd approach, neither did Corey Dillon. And, in our view, it was the presence of guys like Dillon in 2004 and Rodney Harrison in 2003 -- seasoned veterans desperate for a ring -- that helped the Pats avoid complacency and win the Lombardi in both seasons. Warts and all, Moss is fiercely competitive, and we've got a feeling that, between coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Tom Brady, he could be controlled

 

[QuiGon]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
The one team that readers have asked about the most is the Patriots. Though Moss doesn't fit with the team's whole no-turd approach, neither did Corey Dillon. And, in our view, it was the presence of guys like Dillon in 2004 and Rodney Harrison in 2003 -- seasoned veterans desperate for a ring -- that helped the Pats avoid complacency and win the Lombardi in both seasons. Warts and all, Moss is fiercely competitive, and we've got a feeling that, between coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Tom Brady, he could be controlled

While I don't think there's a rat's chance in heck he ever comes here, Belichick has been overheard on more than one occassion to say some positive things about Moss.

 

[mtbykr]

I think it could work here, at least for a while. I also think his cap hits are in line with what the pats would want to spend---however i don't think the pats will ever get him considering what the raiders would probably want in return!

 

[SamBam39]

While I don't think there's a rat's chance in heck he ever comes here, Belichick has been overheard on more than one occassion to say some positive things about Moss.

Moss is an ignorant loser. there's no way.

BB speaks nice about everyone.
it's his mo.

 

[Keegs]

what would it cost to get him?

We already stole Gabriel from them for a 5th.

I know it isn't supposed to work this way, but i bet it would cost even more to get Moss now than it would if we hadn't of stolen Gabriel for next to nothing. They have to be bitter over there.

So what is realistic for moss?

A first rounder and what?
a 2nd rounder?

 

[Digger44]

what would it cost to get him?

We already stole Gabriel from them for a 5th.

I know it isn't supposed to work this way, but i bet it would cost even more to get Moss now than it would if we hadn't of stolen Gabriel for next to nothing. They have to be bitter over there.

So what is realistic for moss?

A first rounder and what?
a 2nd rounder?

Well Kegs if they want a #1 for Porter the price for Moss would be a #1+.... If I remember right, Moss' salary isnt something the Pats would like to handle either. Once we pay Brady and Sey we wont have a lot of freedom.

 

[Keegs]

Well Kegs if they want a #1 for Porter the price for Moss would be a #1+.... If I remember right, Moss' salary isnt something the Pats would like to handle either. Once we pay Brady and Sey we wont have a lot of freedom.

Yeah I know Tigger, it's just something to talk about.

I find it interesting because i do believe Moss is probably the best receiver in the league and what it would cost to trade for him is a lot. I would like to see it happen.... (not necessarily with the pats)

I love Boldin and Andre Johnson, Torry Holt and i think Fitz Wayne and Harrison are great. Even Steve Smith and CJ..

But no one in my opionion in that group is more dominant than Moss. The ***** he did in Minnesota was amazing.

I also don't think he's as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Of course he is talking now but Oakland is a disaster. I think he has been pretty well behaved. TO would have already killed someone by now if he was there.

 

[SamBam39]

Yeah I know Tigger, it's just something to talk about.

I find it interesting because i do believe Moss is probably the best receiver in the league and what it would cost to trade for him is a lot. I would like to see it happen.... (not necessarily with the pats)

I love Boldin and Andre Johnson, Torry Holt and i think Fitz Wayne and Harrison are great. Even Steve Smith and CJ..

But no one in my opionion in that group is more dominant than Moss. The ***** he did in Minnesota was amazing.

I also don't think he's as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Of course he is talking now but Oakland is a disaster. I think he has been pretty well behaved. TO would have already killed someone by now if he was there.

I think your wrong on multiple counts.
he is as bad as everyone says. he's a total cancer. he's plain stupid, and a total jerk. why do you think minnesota dumped him? he was destroying their team.
your also wrong about his talent. he's not so amazing as to be worth all the trouble he causes. he's tall and can be great with the right talent around him, but he's also a lazy ***** and can be shut down.

there's no way he comes here - for any price.

 

[Keegs]

I think your wrong on multiple counts.
he is as bad as everyone says. he's a total cancer. he's plain stupid, and a total jerk. why do you think minnesota dumped him? he was destroying their team.
your also wrong about his talent. he's not so amazing as to be worth all the trouble he causes. he's tall and can be great with the right talent around him, but he's also a lazy ***** and can be shut down.

there's no way he comes here - for any price.

I just don't think he is as bad as T.O. or should even be compared to him which he often is.

I think he has gotten better lately too. Or maybe he hasn't, maybe TO is such a jagoff that i think he has gotten better... I really don't know but I would welcome him here even though it's not happening.

I do consider him the best in the league though.

I don't normally like looking at things this way.... but.....if you take away any top WR and insert Moss in their place, I have no doubt in my mind he would perform better.

 

[SamBam39]

I just don't think he is as bad as T.O. or should even be compared to him which he often is.

I think he has gotten better lately too. Or maybe he hasn't, maybe TO is such a jagoff that i think he has gotten better... I really don't know but I would welcome him here even though it's not happening.

I do consider him the best in the league though.

I don't normally like looking at things this way.... but.....if you take away any top WR and insert Moss in their place, I have no doubt in my mind he would perform better.

i guess we'll just agree to disagree then. O don't think moss would be better than any other top receiver. I see the talent he has, but I think it's exaggerated and he's gone down hill a bit. I'd much rather have a whole bunch of talented receivers on other teams.

as far as T.O. goes, that guy is just plain damaged emotionally. He's like a 7 year old boy emotionally and maturity wise. he's a totally clueless fool who drastically seeks to be loved and is despised for his constant obnoxious behavior. he is his own worst enemy. I thinkboth moss and T.O. are horrible additions to any organization trying to have a true 'team'. both are talented, but hold back teams in many other ways. there's plenty of other options that can be made to work well within your team.

 

[Keegs]

i guess we'll just agree to disagree then. O don't think moss would be better than any other top receiver. I see the talent he has, but I think it's exaggerated and he's gone down hill a bit. I'd much rather have a whole bunch of talented receivers on other teams.

as far as T.O. goes, that guy is just plain damaged emotionally. He's like a 7 year old boy emotionally and maturity wise. he's a totally clueless fool who drastically seeks to be loved and is despised for his constant obnoxious behavior. he is his own worst enemy. I thinkboth moss and T.O. are horrible additions to any organization trying to have a true 'team'. both are talented, but hold back teams in many other ways. there's plenty of other options that can be made to work well within your team.

Good point.
You can get other receivers who might be a tad less talented.... but aren't complete locker-room-dividing ***holes.

I can't stand T.O. anymore. Mainly because of how he acts.... and because both years i had him on my fantasy team were his last year in San Fran, and his last year in pHilly. And we know how much he blew those years.

His superbowl performance was excellent though. However, that could just have been the pats way of dealing with that team. I don't seem to remember Westbrook playing that great.
We could have just let T.O. get his catches and yards and shut everyone else down. So it might not have been as great as everyone makes it out to be.

But either way, It impressed the **** outta me.

but i guess in some ways, comparing T.O. to Moss is like comparing horse ***** to Dog$****.

 

[SamBam39]

but i guess in some ways, comparing T.O. to Moss is like comparing horse ***** to Dog$****.

ha ha ha - yup!
remember terry glenn and the headaches he caused here?
BB doesn't want selfish players.
he wants a team where everyone is pulling for the team.
that's part of why branch is gone. the pats will move on without anybody
if they get too full of themselves.

the pats are trolling the waters right now and finding gems to fill their holes. they have the money to do what they want. it's awesome!
that's how they got gabriel. now they're looking for more!

 

[Aldogg]

Even though he has shown in the past to be a POS, I think if he does come here, for let's say our 1st and a 3rd or a 4th, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I for one don't think he was completely to blame for everything in Minnesota. Yes he did say some stupid things, but even after he left, that team was garbage until Culpepper got hurt last year. McCombs traded Moss to make his team more family friendly, even though 2 months into the season last year, the Vikes had the infamous "Love Boat" scandal. I think he was an easy scapegoat and they found a reason to dump him for cheap and try to show thier fans it was for the teams good trading one of the top players in the league for trash.

Also, players can change in the right environment. Look at Dillon. I know a lot of us (myself incldued) had doubts about a "bad seed" like Dillon coming in and fitting in with the mold of this team, as he at the time was known as a selfish "me first" player, but he was put in a winning environment, won a ring and has been almost the perfect player. Even now, he is splitting time with a rookie, and he is happy getting 15-20 carries, and is showing the youngster how to play the pro game.

I think Moss now knows he is on the other side of 30, his skills are nowhere near they were a few years ago, when he could singlehandly dominate a game, and going from the desolate situatuation in Oakland, where they could be playing for the "perfect 0-16" season to New England, where you will be playing in January and could be playing in Miami in February for a Lombardi might be all he needs to clean up his act. I think he could come right in here and drink the famous Pats Kool-Aid, and with guys like Dillon, Brady, Sey, Rodney and all the other leaders on this team, they will do a good job of showing him the "Patriots Way" of playing the game, while I bet Moss would be more than happy to play for a QB and an offense like the Pats after dealing with Collins, Brooks and Walter the last 2 years in Oakland.

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

In every interview that I have read with Gabriel since he got here, he talked about what a great teamate Moss was. Said the guy was always working with him on how to get better. Doesn't sound like Moss is the jerk that some people here would make him out to be. And when Gabe got traded to us, Moss went public about his concern that the organization would let go one of the better players on the team....again, backing up his teamates.

But in the question of talent, how anyone can question his ability is absolutely foolish to me. Is has long been said about Moss "there is speed, and then there is Randy Moss speed". He has another gear that 99% of NFL players will never know.

If there was ever a chance that we could get that guy here, I am damn sure that BB and Pioli would make it happen....But I think it won't come down to money, it will be giving the Raiders too many draft picks to make it happen.

And we all know how they love those early picks here.

 

[amazinPats]

the pats are trolling the waters right now and finding gems to fill their holes. they have the money to do what they want. it's awesome!
that's how they got gabriel. now they're looking for more!

Excellent point and an accurate reading of the situation. I couldn't agree more!

 

[SamBam39]

Even though he has shown in the past to be a POS, I think if he does come here, for let's say our 1st and a 3rd or a 4th, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I for one don't think he was completely to blame for everything in Minnesota. Yes he did say some stupid things, but even after he left, that team was garbage until Culpepper got hurt last year. McCombs traded Moss to make his team more family friendly, even though 2 months into the season last year, the Vikes had the infamous "Love Boat" scandal. I think he was an easy scapegoat and they found a reason to dump him for cheap and try to show thier fans it was for the teams good trading one of the top players in the league for trash.

Also, players can change in the right environment. Look at Dillon. I know a lot of us (myself incldued) had doubts about a "bad seed" like Dillon coming in and fitting in with the mold of this team, as he at the time was known as a selfish "me first" player, but he was put in a winning environment, won a ring and has been almost the perfect player. Even now, he is splitting time with a rookie, and he is happy getting 15-20 carries, and is showing the youngster how to play the pro game.

I think Moss now knows he is on the other side of 30, his skills are nowhere near they were a few years ago, when he could singlehandly dominate a game, and going from the desolate situatuation in Oakland, where they could be playing for the "perfect 0-16" season to New England, where you will be playing in January and could be playing in Miami in February for a Lombardi might be all he needs to clean up his act. I think he could come right in here and drink the famous Pats Kool-Aid, and with guys like Dillon, Brady, Sey, Rodney and all the other leaders on this team, they will do a good job of showing him the "Patriots Way" of playing the game, while I bet Moss would be more than happy to play for a QB and an offense like the Pats after dealing with Collins, Brooks and Walter the last 2 years in Oakland.

I think the Dillon situation was different. BB looked into his character issues with the bengals very thoroughly and were satisfied that he was just a player who was frustrated and wanted to win badly.
I think whenever you listen to Moss speak, you cringe at his obvious lack of character and not only would BB never trade a 1st plus for him, I don't think he wants him here at all.

Do I think Moss could regain his ability to put up big numbers elsewhere? yes. Do I think it was all his fault what happened in Minnesota? no.
but I'll be very happy to watch him go do that for some other team thank you very much, and keep his selfish, ignorant, immature mind away from our locker room. Heck the pats don't even want porter!

 

[amazinPats]

Even though he has shown in the past to be a POS, I think if he does come here, for let's say our 1st and a 3rd or a 4th, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I for one don't think he was completely to blame for everything in Minnesota. Yes he did say some stupid things, but even after he left, that team was garbage until Culpepper got hurt last year. McCombs traded Moss to make his team more family friendly, even though 2 months into the season last year, the Vikes had the infamous "Love Boat" scandal. I think he was an easy scapegoat and they found a reason to dump him for cheap and try to show thier fans it was for the teams good trading one of the top players in the league for trash.

Also, players can change in the right environment. Look at Dillon. I know a lot of us (myself incldued) had doubts about a "bad seed" like Dillon coming in and fitting in with the mold of this team, as he at the time was known as a selfish "me first" player, but he was put in a winning environment, won a ring and has been almost the perfect player. Even now, he is splitting time with a rookie, and he is happy getting 15-20 carries, and is showing the youngster how to play the pro game.

I think Moss now knows he is on the other side of 30, his skills are nowhere near they were a few years ago, when he could singlehandly dominate a game, and going from the desolate situatuation in Oakland, where they could be playing for the "perfect 0-16" season to New England, where you will be playing in January and could be playing in Miami in February for a Lombardi might be all he needs to clean up his act. I think he could come right in here and drink the famous Pats Kool-Aid, and with guys like Dillon, Brady, Sey, Rodney and all the other leaders on this team, they will do a good job of showing him the "Patriots Way" of playing the game, while I bet Moss would be more than happy to play for a QB and an offense like the Pats after dealing with Collins, Brooks and Walter the last 2 years in Oakland.

I think the Pats would consider Moss. As players age, they tend to think more about rings than they do individual stats. We saw this with Corey Dillon. The problem here, though, is the likely price Oakland might want for him. I wouldn't offer much for Moss. He's still a lockerroom risk and might have to be dumped in another year or two. I wouldn't give more than one of our first round picks. No more....

I'd also hang tough on a second round pick for Porter. I think the Raiders might be looking to clean up shop and stockpile picks for next year.

 

[SamBam39]

I think the Pats would consider Moss. As players age, they tend to think more about rings than they do individual stats. We saw this with Corey Dillon. The problem here, though, is the likely price Oakland might want for him. I wouldn't offer much for Moss. He's still a lockerroom risk and might have to be dumped in another year or two. I wouldn't give more than one of our first round picks. No more....

I'd also hang tough on a second round pick for Porter. I think the Raiders might be looking to clean up shop and stockpile picks for next year.

I'd be more willing to take porter on this team than moss. I'll be surprised if either one happens though.

 

[amazinPats]

My preference is Porter as well. Too much baggage with Moss unless we get him "cheap."

 

[Keegs]

I don't know why you would take Porter over Moss.

The laughing on the sidelines thing is just as bad as what people say about Moss, which might not be 100% accurate.

I really do think Moss has gotten better.. And with Brady throwing to him and our veterans keeping him in line it would be fine.

I would prefer Moss over Porter. Definitely.