Peter King Week 1 picks

[Triumph]

OK a 1400 yard receiver goes to 500 then 1000 and you call that an upward trend. You are just joking because its easier than admitting you are wrong, right?

Ive already explained this at least twice, but you still dont get it. Dont you have a piece of paper and pencil around?

Try thinking stock market.

What is a 'possession receiver'. Is that code for old and slow? How does a receiver who drops more balls than anyone become a possession receiver?
Being washed up isnt mutually exclusive with playing for a team with a bad QB, and going to one with an average QB doesnt usually change that much. Let me guess, next you are going to say Palmer is a top 10 QB

A WR that possesses the football.

You should look it up. If you need help Googling just PM me.

Do you want to make a point soon?
You are arguing that the Bengals have a very good WR corps.
So far your argument consists of:
Ochos below average production for a #1 WR is good because it was better than the year before when he couldnt manage 600 yards.
Owens is good because you renamed him 'possession'
The 2 rookies are good because the Patriots have rookie TEs who will catch some passes.

With this standard, we can induct about 700 current NFL players into Canton tomorrow,

There goes another one of those tangents.

 

[Triumph]

He wasnt injured the entire season, and when he played his production was much less than last years #20 ranking.

What is your point?
Are you trying to say that because he missed a few games he didnt have to produce in 2008 to be considered an above average NUMBER ONE RECEIVER, or that 20th in yards is good for a #1?
You argued before that he is improving because of 2008s pathetic #s (even though he didnt come close in 2009 to what he did the prior 6 years) and now you are saying 2008 doesnt count????????

My point is that you need to watch other NFL games and learn about other teams. You look like Patfans version of DWC cranking out worthless stats that mean nothing.

Ryan Fitzpatrick started 12 games for Cinci in 08. Only people in left field would expect the same results with Palmer gone. But go ahead and keep telling us Johnson is all washed up and in decline.

 

[Ring 6]

Ive already explained this at least twice, but you still dont get it. Dont you have a piece of paper and pencil around?

Try thinking stock market.

2008 was his worst year since his rookie year, 2009 his 2nd worst.
You are just being stupid now.

A WR that possesses the football.

You should look it up. If you need help Googling just PM me.

Oh, TO is a WE that possesses the football. That clears up all of the belief that his skills are gone.

There goes another one of those tangents.

No summing up your argument is hardly a tangent.

 

[Ring 6]

My point is that you need to watch other NFL games and learn about other teams. You look like Patfans version of DWC cranking out worthless stats that mean nothing.

How does who is QB was when he was catching less than 500 yard in passes address that the Bengals have a top receiving corps?
That is the point of the debate.
You have yet to show they are above average in #1,#2,#3.....
Giving excuse for why a guy you are apparently trying to say is an elite #1 WR caught less than 600 yards in passes in 2008.
How does this explain him being near the bottom of #1 WRs last year?

YOU are the one who brought stats into this. I am just pointing out that the stats prove the opposite of what you want them to.

Ryan Fitzpatrick started 12 games for Cinci in 08. Only people in left field would expect the same results with Palmer gone. But go ahead and keep telling us Johnson is all washed up and in decline.

I dont know, maybe if he is an elite #1 WR I would expect him to produce something similar to what Randy Moss did that year with a QB who hadnt played since HS. I didnt say they should be the same with a backup QB, but they were not just reduced, they were pathetic.
I didnt say Johnson was washed up, I said the Bengal WRs corps is average at best.
You have not typed a word that supports OCho being better than an average #1. Owens being close to an average #2. Your argument that the next 2 best options are good is that the Patriots have 2 rookie TEs. Again, I don't think he is a rookie, the Patriots have a rookie, therefore he is a good player, quite meets the burden of proof.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Anybody can make a prediction, and most fans do. I make predictions with and without the point-spread every week and call it gambling. I do it for every game every week. How Peter King gets away with making a lot of money whether he's right or wrong is beyond me. Just a lucky bastard, no matter how you add it up...whether you like him or not.

To me, being a gambler, this is a tough game to call. I didn't touch it except when I had to in my football pools. I'm in two of them...in one I picked the Patriots, and the other I picked the Bengals. It's really a tough match-up to call in week one.

One thing is for sure, and that is that it will be an interesting game to watch. If I had a gun to my head, I'd take the Bengals to win, but that says nothing about how the season will progress. I figure the Patriots are still the team to beat in the AFC East no matter what happens in this game, really. This is not the 2007 Patriots, but they are still good. Watching it unfold is the beauty of it. Once you take something for granted, you are dead in the water, as they say.

 

[Uncle Meat]

I said the Bengal WRs corps is average at best.

You crazy, boy.

 

[Ring 6]

You crazy, boy.

Do you have a point?

 

[BradyMossWelker]

You crazy, boy.

Why?
The Bengals have two old recievers, one isn't even a good #1 reciever anymore, although he is a good reciever. And the other, is a 36 years old, who the Patriots refused, and Triumph calls him a possession reciever, when he is known for his dropped balls, and at this point of his career, is no more than a average 3rd reciver And then they have a rockie, who was drafted in the 3rd round. Is that a good core?

 

[jcdavey]

bengals have a very good defense, good pressure from the dline, damn good tandem of cbs, on offense a solid running game, but their pass game isn't that good although they have a good looking rookie TE

i predict a low scoring battle because even if NE's secondary is as not good as alot of people think, i don't think the bengals are the type of pass offense to make NE pay.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Why?
The Bengals have two old recievers, one isn't even a good #1 reciever anymore, although he is a good reciever. And the other, is a 36 years old, who the Patriots refused, and Triumph calls him a possession reciever, when he is known for his dropped balls, and at this point of his career, is no more than a average 3rd reciver And then they have a rockie, who was drafted in the 3rd round. Is that a good core?

T.O. and Ochocinco are both six time Pro Bowlers.

Ochocinco is old? Well, he's younger than Randy Moss. 85 has had 1,000-seasons every year except his rookie year and 2008, when Palmer got hurt early. They guy still has it. And T.O. led the league in TD catches over the span of three years before coming to Buffalo, I believe. His production dropped because he was in Buffalo, pure and simple. Look how poorly Moss did in Oakland. Same deal. I believe the Raiders went to the Super Bowl with TWO WRs older than Owens: Tim Brown and Jerry Rice. T.O. has always taken outstanding care with his body. The guy is in shape and can play football.

Also, it doesn't matter where you are drafted as much as people make it out to be. Welker went undrafted. The Bengals also went Tight End with Jermaine Gresham in the first.

Who is throwing you the football has a lot to do with it as well. If Palmer gets back to form, T.O. and 85 will both have 1,000+-yard seasons with at least 9 TDs a-piece IMO. You shouldn't overlook them. Are you putting them down just because you are playing them this week? One of them is going to take pressure off the other by drawing double coverage, and the Bengals have a decent enough running game to mix things up and draw players in and out of the box. Dunno if your secondary is up to containing both of them.

 

[JackBauer]

T.O. and Ochocinco are both six time Pro Bowlers.

Say no more.

 

[goldenaleus]

I can see this team being at least 9-7 when it is all said and done.

Without pressure from the the DL, this could be a long season. This team can beat beat thru the air. I am hoping that the defense will improve over the course of the season and will be peaking by the time playoffs arrive.

ST should be an improvement especially in the punting game and will be another concern for the season if we give up too much yardage in coverage.

Offense...I'd like to see more 2nd half scoring and/or longer drives to keep the oppposing offense off the field and allow the D to regroup itself.

Hammer away!

 

[Ring 6]

T.O. and Ochocinco are both six time Pro Bowlers.

Ochocinco is old? Well, he's younger than Randy Moss. 85 has had 1,000-seasons every year except his rookie year and 2008, when Palmer got hurt early. They guy still has it. And T.O. led the league in TD catches over the span of three years before coming to Buffalo, I believe. His production dropped because he was in Buffalo, pure and simple. Look how poorly Moss did in Oakland. Same deal. I believe the Raiders went to the Super Bowl with TWO WRs older than Owens: Tim Brown and Jerry Rice. T.O. has always taken outstanding care with his body. The guy is in shape and can play football.

Also, it doesn't matter where you are drafted as much as people make it out to be. Welker went undrafted. The Bengals also went Tight End with Jermaine Gresham in the first.

Who is throwing you the football has a lot to do with it as well. If Palmer gets back to form, T.O. and 85 will both have 1,000+-yard seasons with at least 9 TDs a-piece IMO. You shouldn't overlook them. Are you putting them down just because you are playing them this week? One of them is going to take pressure off the other by drawing double coverage, and the Bengals have a decent enough running game to mix things up and draw players in and out of the box. Dunno if your secondary is up to containing both of them.

If this was 2005 you would have a point.
Ocho is not a bad receiever but he is no longer an average or above #1.
TO is done.
Its a passing league, and everyone has WRs. These just are average or worse. That doesnt mean they are terrible it means there are 15-20 #1s better than Ocho, and TO just doesnt have the skill that made him a probowl player any more.
Sure, the rookies could work out but to say the WR they picked in the 3rd round is a reason they are a good WR corps is silly.
In their prime these guys would have been a great duo. But they simply are not the same guys.

 

[Uncle Meat]

If this was 2005 you would have a point.
Ocho is not a bad receiever but he is no longer an average or above #1.
TO is done.
Its a passing league, and everyone has WRs. These just are average or worse. That doesnt mean they are terrible it means there are 15-20 #1s better than Ocho, and TO just doesnt have the skill that made him a probowl player any more.
Sure, the rookies could work out but to say the WR they picked in the 3rd round is a reason they are a good WR corps is silly.
In their prime these guys would have been a great duo. But they simply are not the same guys.

This post just doesn't have any substance. It never says anything about why you think what you do; it only states your opinion as if it were fact. It has zero details. For example, why do you think that Ocho is no longer an average or above #1 anymore? Why?

And why does TO not have the skill that made him a probowl player anymore?

And I never said anything about the WR they picked in the 3rd is a reason why they are a good receiving unit.

Let me ask you something. Is Randy Moss "the same guy" anymore...because, like I already said, he is older than Ocho. Are you basing this whole thing on age? The Bengals are a good team. TO is NOT done. Now that he has some decent help, he will be one of the best #2s in the game IMO, if you can even call him a #2. He only had that one year lag in Buffalo, really, and he was STILL the most productive WR on that team by quite a bit.

85 and TO both have terrible reality shows, I'll give you that, but they are going to be one of the best tandems in the league this year, I think.

 

[Ring 6]

This post just doesn't have any substance. It never says anything about why you think what you do; it only states your opinion as if it were fact. It has zero details. For example, why do you think that Ocho is no longer an average or above #1 anymore? Why?

And why does TO not have the skill that made him a probowl player anymore?

And I never said anything about the WR they picked in the 3rd is a reason why they are a good receiving unit.

Let me ask you something. Is Randy Moss "the same guy" anymore...because, like I already said, he is older than Ocho. Are you basing this whole thing on age? The Bengals are a good team. TO is NOT done. Now that he has some decent help, he will be one of the best #2s in the game IMO, if you can even call him a #2. He only had that one year lag in Buffalo, really, and he was STILL the most productive WR on that team by quite a bit.

85 and TO both have terrible reality shows, I'll give you that, but they are going to be one of the best tandems in the league this year, I think.

So you call my opinion unsubstantiated and lacking substance after I backed it up throughout the thread (I'm not going to retype the entire argument into every post) and then give your own unsubstantiated opinion that they are good because you say they are and thats better?
Ocho is not a bad receiver but he hasnt produced at the level of a decent #1 for 2 years. Calendar age and playing age are very different. Whether or not Moss declined and how much is a ridiculous argument to prove every one in his age group is the same.
You can have your opinoin on TO, mine is that he is clearly over the hill and a shadow of the probowl receiver he used to be.
To be 'averge' 1 and 2 WRs they would need to combine for about 135 catches and about 1800-1900 yards.To be top 5 160 and 2100.
That is not happening. Last year they combined for 127/1876, below the average production of the 16 and 48th ranked recevers and they arent getting younger.

Saying Ocho is a good #1 WR because he had 1000 receiving yards is failing to understand what a good #1 produces.
He is a #1 quality WR, just a middle of the road one.

By the way for all of the "TO will be better because he isnt stuck on the Bills' claims, the Bengals completed 30 more passes than the Bills last year, TO caught about 20% of the Bills receptions, so we are talking about 6 catches.

 

[Uncle Meat]

So you call my opinion unsubstantiated and lacking substance after I backed it up throughout the thread (I'm not going to retype the entire argument into every post) and then give your own unsubstantiated opinion that they are good because you say they are and thats better?
Ocho is not a bad receiver but he hasnt produced at the level of a decent #1 for 2 years. Calendar age and playing age are very different. Whether or not Moss declined and how much is a ridiculous argument to prove every one in his age group is the same.
You can have your opinoin on TO, mine is that he is clearly over the hill and a shadow of the probowl receiver he used to be.
To be 'averge' 1 and 2 WRs they would need to combine for about 135 catches and about 1800-1900 yards.To be top 5 160 and 2100.
That is not happening. Last year they combined for 127/1876, below the average production of the 16 and 48th ranked recevers and they arent getting younger.

Saying Ocho is a good #1 WR because he had 1000 receiving yards is failing to understand what a good #1 produces.
He is a #1 quality WR, just a middle of the road one.

By the way for all of the "TO will be better because he isnt stuck on the Bills' claims, the Bengals completed 30 more passes than the Bills last year, TO caught about 20% of the Bills receptions, so we are talking about 6 catches.

Watch what happens this week, buddy. We are both just projecting our opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. There is a lot more that goes into the game than one or two players, anyway. People would have a huge difference of opinion about your WRs if they were on a different team. Even you couldn't dispute that.

It's about match-ups. It's about teams trying to win the best way they think how. It's not about stats, which are an indicator, not the end-all.

TO definitely suffered under the Bills last year. If you don't see that, then I can't help you. I don't want to repeat myself, but it was a lot like Moss in Oakland IMO.

Ocho Cinco has had his production reduced the same way TO did, and that was because of Ryan Fitzpatrick. Kind of ironic if you think about it. 85 in 2008, and TO in 2009. OchoCinco is an elite WR IMO, and TO is close too.

 

[Palmer9]

Watch what happens this week, buddy. We are both just projecting our opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. There is a lot more that goes into the game than one or two players, anyway. People would have a huge difference of opinion about your WRs if they were on a different team. Even you couldn't dispute that.

It's about match-ups. It's about teams trying to win the best way they think how. It's not about stats, which are an indicator, not the end-all.

TO definitely suffered under the Bills last year. If you don't see that, then I can't help you. I don't want to repeat myself, but it was a lot like Moss in Oakland IMO.

Ocho Cinco has had his production reduced the same way TO did, and that was because of Ryan Fitzpatrick. Kind of ironic if you think about it. 85 in 2008, and TO in 2009. OchoCinco is an elite WR IMO, and TO is close too.

90% of This ^

Truthfully, several things have slowed down Chad the past few years.

Fitzpatrick (2008), the Bengals not having anyone strong opposite from him (2009), the Bengals ranking 27th in the NFL in passes attempted in 2009 which = running the football... a LOT.

Then there is a little bit of the age factor creeping in, sure. Same with TO. Fitzpatrick, a bad Bills team (although Lee Evans is incredibly underrated IMO), age, etc. My biggest concern for the Bengals WRs isn't week 1 (sorry to burst any of your guys bubbles). It's week 13 and on.

 

[Triumph]

This post just doesn't have any substance. It never says anything about why you think what you do; it only states your opinion as if it were fact. It has zero details.

It has stats.

Andy doesnt watch any other NFL games and uses stats as a way of justifying the means. 85 was supposed to pass the ball and catch it when Fitzpatrick was behind center in 08, so he sucks.

Conversely, Moss made Cassel great even though NE relied heavily on the run that season.

Let me ask you something. Is Randy Moss "the same guy"

But he is a NE Patriot. Like Wilhite and Maroney.

They will always be great players.

The Bengals are a good team. TO is NOT done. Now that he has some decent help, he will be one of the best #2s in the game IMO, if you can even call him a #2. He only had that one year lag in Buffalo, really, and he was STILL the most productive WR on that team by quite a bit.

85 and TO both have terrible reality shows, I'll give you that, but they are going to be one of the best tandems in the league this year, I think.

You are wasting your time.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

Why all the talk of the Bengals passing game? Cin QBs were sacked 29 times last season on 477 passing attempts. OTOH, NE QBs were sacked only 18 times on 592 passing attempts. That tells me that even though Cin ran to set up the pass there oline plays poorly in pass pro. No time to throw to TO and Ocho.

OTOH, Cin only had three more sacks on defense than NE and they got to play against GB. Cin run D performed better on a per run basis but allowed 15 more 1st downs on the ground.

What I'm getting at is Cin should not be able to match scores in a shoot out because their offensive and defensive lines are worse than our Patriots much complained about units.

 

[Ring 6]

Watch what happens this week, buddy. We are both just projecting our opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. There is a lot more that goes into the game than one or two players, anyway. People would have a huge difference of opinion about your WRs if they were on a different team. Even you couldn't dispute that.

It's about match-ups. It's about teams trying to win the best way they think how. It's not about stats, which are an indicator, not the end-all.

TO definitely suffered under the Bills last year. If you don't see that, then I can't help you. I don't want to repeat myself, but it was a lot like Moss in Oakland IMO.

Ocho Cinco has had his production reduced the same way TO did, and that was because of Ryan Fitzpatrick. Kind of ironic if you think about it. 85 in 2008, and TO in 2009. OchoCinco is an elite WR IMO, and TO is close too.

And you are entitled to your opinion.
We dont really differ that much. I say Ocho is a legit #1 but a below average one, you seem to think he is more than that.
TO used to be an elite receiver but I think that he no longer is, you think he hasnt declined. We will see,.