Pats workout Charles Rogers, Kevin Johnson and Jabar Gaffney.

[SVN]

anyone saw the charles rogers piece on nfl network today ? watching that i felt the pats would never get this guy...he showed no remorse ,says "you cant teach talent" etc etc...i hope we dont get his guy ..at least looking at what i saw in that piece...

 

[Mike the Brit]

From all of this discussion, I hope that we're looking HARD at other teams' practice squads. There's a lot more chance of finding wide receiver talent there than there seems to be in this little group of busts.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

Of the three, the one I think would have the best shot to help out the Pats would be Kevin Johnson, if his achilles had healed well enough.

I'm all for taking on a recent 1st round bust like Rogers, but not 4 games into the season. He's a guy you pick up in the offseason, and see what having him spend a summer + spring around Brown, Brady, & Belichick and see whether some of their attitude can rub off on him in TC.

I also don't think much of trying to pick up a WR who couldn't earn a spot on the Eagles' roster, which has been as needy as ours. Seems like he had bad hands, couldn't learn the system, and didn't have a great attitude, either.

In Johnson, we'd be getting a guy with excellent hands + a good route runner, who lacks ideal size and is "quick" rather than fast -- sounds to me like the prototypical Pats WR, actually. Plus, you have the fact that's he's been bouncing around team to team -- he's got a familiarity with a number of systems, and is used to making that adjustment.

 

[Remix 6]

this is what he said

On why a team should want him now: "You can't teach talent. Talent is God-gifted, and I got the talent, but I still got the willpower to put in the work to do whatever it takes. Can I help a team win? Most definitely."

and hes mostly right..you dont teach talent..its a given. you work for it and your blessed with it.

he admit you have to put in work and he definatley does have t alent

 

[Remix 6]

Of the three, the one I think would have the best shot to help out the Pats would be Kevin Johnson, if his achilles had healed well enough.

I'm all for taking on a recent 1st round bust like Rogers, but not 4 games into the season. He's a guy you pick up in the offseason, and see what having him spend a summer + spring around Brown, Brady, & Belichick and see whether some of their attitude can rub off on him in TC.

I also don't think much of trying to pick up a WR who couldn't earn a spot on the Eagles' roster, which has been as needy as ours. Seems like he had bad hands, couldn't learn the system, and didn't have a great attitude, either.

In Johnson, we'd be getting a guy with excellent hands + a good route runner, who lacks ideal size and is "quick" rather than fast -- sounds to me like the prototypical Pats WR, actually. Plus, you have the fact that's he's been bouncing around team to team -- he's got a familiarity with a number of systems, and is used to making that adjustment.

well they will all come for cheap likely since they havent been on a team..lately besides Gaffney.

 

[BradyManny]

I guess I'm in the camp of a good teacher can fix a bad student. I also think a good teacher isn't afraid of a bad student.

Charles Rogers is a guy who is worth the risk. What's the worst that can happen? You kick him out on the curb. What's the best that can happen? It turns out that he was actually worth the 2nd overall pick in the draft, and just happened to be placed on the worst team with the worst system in the league and happened to have a few injuries. Take a chance, we need a 5th WR, why not go with the guy with the most talent?

 

[brady et al fan]

I guess I'm in the camp of a good teacher can fix a bad student. I also think a good teacher isn't afraid of a bad student.

Charles Rogers is a guy who is worth the risk. What's the worst that can happen? You kick him out on the curb. What's the best that can happen? It turns out that he was actually worth the 2nd overall pick in the draft, and just happened to be placed on the worst team with the worst system in the league and happened to have a few injuries. Take a chance, we need a 5th WR, why not go with the guy with the most talent?

I don't know. I hear the bad work ethic and drug problems and my first thought is stay away from this guy. What a waste of tremendous talent. This guy was supposed to be the second coming of Jerry Rice in that draft. He's right that you can't teach talent. But that statement is consistent with an overall crappy attitude of being uncoachable. As tempting as it would be to try and harvest that talent I wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole.

 

[amazinPats]

Of the three, I'd take Kevin Johnson. But it would be better for the team to pursue a modest trade for a fourth or fifth receiver on a team's roster. My preference is David Patten, especially if they are able to rework his contract.

Interesting that there was no further news on the Porter trade rumor.

 

[tombonneau]

Count me among those casting a vote for a (healthy) KJ. All we need at the bottom of the Pats WR roster is a guy with NFL experience who has shown he is a capable starter in this league and can step up as a pinch starter if necessary. That is KJ. He isn't going to scare anybody, but he can run routes and catch passes. Two kind of important skills for a WR that neither Gaffney nor Rogers has shown with any consistancy.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: KJ all the way!

Of the three WRs, the only one who has any production is Kevin Johnson. He has had a 1100 yard season, and a 65 reception season. He was a second round pick, actually #33 so the first pick of the second round, and has respectable size at 5'11" and 195#. His problems began with Butch Davis the second Head coach at Cleveland. But the only reason he is not in the league is that he suffered an Achilles tendon injury and has been recovering from that.

He is a quick, precise route runner. A faster possession type receiver who gets separation on his cuts. I would put him in the David Givens type category but I don't think he is the run blocker that Givens is, Few are. Of all the Patriots current receivers none is a true possesion type except ageless wonder Troy Brown. I hesitate to compare him to Deon Branch style, but that is more his style than any current Pats WR other than Troy. Quick more than fast, gets opens and catches the third down pass type guy. I don't think he has DB quickness, no one does, but KJ does have more size.


MOST IMPORTANT:

This is either the second or third time the Patriots brought him in. Last time they almost signed him but his Achilles was not quite back, although I remember contract discussions as revealed by KJ. He is the best of the three and like Don Davis, who was recuited several times before Belichick could sign him, I predict that KJ will be a Pat. If not this season than in the offseason for next TC. I think his talents more fit and round out the Patriots receiving corps than either of the other two. How many times have BB/SP said we are building a team not accumulating "talent".

That is all supposing that his Achilles is actually mending. But I don't think the Pats would have considered him again if it were not ....:rocker:

 

[R_T26]

First Rogers has the most potential talent out of all of them

Kevin Johnson-Pats put a waiver claim in on him in 2003

Gafney-Cut by the Texans and Eagles..enough said.

as for the Bam love, c'mon, if the Pats thought he was that good he would be up here.

Also I dont think this has anything to do with CJ as much as it does the Pats only have 4 WR's.

Perfect time to pick up a guy if they do, Getting 2 weeks to prepare. But remember someone else will get cut soon with Pass coming back (most likely Spann).

 

[Pats726]

I understand that the team wishes to be ahead of things..sure..and the fact there are only 4...why now though?? If Smith was here only for St...then the team had 4 before..so..why now?? I would go with KJ..that is IF he was healthy. I think he has a lot of what it takes to be a big play guy..NOT the speed, but insticts. He's also never really played on a team with a top notch QB.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I guess I'm in the camp of a good teacher can fix a bad student. I also think a good teacher isn't afraid of a bad student.

Charles Rogers is a guy who is worth the risk. What's the worst that can happen? You kick him out on the curb. What's the best that can happen? It turns out that he was actually worth the 2nd overall pick in the draft, and just happened to be placed on the worst team with the worst system in the league and happened to have a few injuries. Take a chance, we need a 5th WR, why not go with the guy with the most talent?

He wasn't a bad student though. He was a talented punk student with a drug problem for whom learning lessons or performing (or make the analogy football once he got his signing bonus) was not as important as having him some fun. He claims he's been peeing free for 15 months, yet when asked about his poor work ethic in Detroit in the aftermath said it is hard to work hard for people who are trying to take away money from you (that you never earned of course). He seems to think that getting cut was a plus since he believes they cannot recoup money from his signing bonus once they cut him. Smiled like he'd fixed that little situation by getting himself cut. No remorse or even a hint that he takes responsibility for being a major f-up. He's assuming at 25 he gets a re-do because of his talent. Andrea kept gently trying to lead him into saying he was sorry, but he just wasn't interested. Get the feeling he sees this as an opportunity to get an early second bite at the FA apple.

Even Marshall and Ron Woodson who tend to side with talent when in doubt seemed to think this kid needs to twist out there for a while and not get picked up until he does start showing some remorse. And even after that anyone who signs him better make sure it's a minimum deal with nothing guaranteed and everything incentivized. Except guys like that under contracts like those usually start to grouse the minute they think they have re-established any kind of value. Because what they and this kid lack is character.

We could certainly use some depth at WR. Don't think we need a former #2 draft pick who if he performs at all is gonna start bellyaching about compensation on this team. We've got some great veteran leadership but we also have a young stud RB and a projected young stud WR who are likely best not exposed to this losers thought process. He was right when he said you can't teach talent. And sometimes, as BB discovered with speed, it can't be coached up to play within a system either.

Johnson has shown that he can play when healthy so I think if healthy he is the most logical choice. I think we have sufficient talent on the roster now. What we need is consistency and depth with consistency.

 

[SamBam39]

He wasn't a bad student though. He was a talented punk student with a drug problem for whom learning lessons or performing (or make the analogy football once he got his signing bonus) was not as important as having him some fun. He claims he's been peeing free for 15 months, yet when asked about his poor work ethic in Detroit in the aftermath said it is hard to work hard for people who are trying to take away money from you (that you never earned of course). He seems to think that getting cut was a plus since he believes they cannot recoup money from his signing bonus once they cut him. Smiled like he'd fixed that little situation by getting himself cut. No remorse or even a hint that he takes responsibility for being a major f-up. He's assuming at 25 he gets a re-do because of his talent. Andrea kept gently trying to lead him into saying he was sorry, but he just wasn't interested. Get the feeling he sees this as an opportunity to get an early second bite at the FA apple.

Even Marshall and Ron Woodson who tend to side with talent when in doubt seemed to think this kid needs to twist out there for a while and not get picked up until he does start showing some remorse. And even after that anyone who signs him better make sure it's a minimum deal with nothing guaranteed and everything incentivized. Except guys like that under contracts like those usually start to grouse the minute they think they have re-established any kind of value. Because what they and this kid lack is character.

We could certainly use some depth at WR. Don't think we need a former #2 draft pick who if he performs at all is gonna start bellyaching about compensation on this team. We've got some great veteran leadership but we also have a young stud RB and a projected young stud WR who are likely best not exposed to this losers thought process. He was right when he said you can't teach talent. And sometimes, as BB discovered with speed, it can't be coached up to play within a system either.

Johnson has shown that he can play when healthy so I think if healthy he is the most logical choice. I think we have sufficient talent on the roster now. What we need is consistency and depth with consistency.

Great post.
I was just about to post about him saying that he didn't give an effort in detroit because they were taking away his money - I wanted the interviewer to say - charles - that's not the response people are looking for! why didn't you just work harder and try to change people's perceptions and your results on the field? I agree completely, that although his talent is tempting, he's a major risk to be a negative presence on the team and further problems down the road - but I'll leave that judgment up to BB/Pioli - the fact is, they already knew all this stuff about him, and yet they still brought him in, so they must be thinking they might be able to set him straight. Imagine if they turned him around? what a steal that would be!
right now though, I like the sound of Kevin Johnson if he's fully recovered. He was really good in cleveland.

 

[BradyManny]

BB and Pioli wouldn't have worked him out if they didn't think they could use him. Most people said they'd never even look at him and never even think about working him out.

 

[SamBam39]

BB and Pioli wouldn't have worked him out if they didn't think they could use him. Most people said they'd never even look at him and never even think about working him out.

yeah your right, I saw a lot of posts claiming that. It is interesting that they brought him in.
another thing to look at though, the dolphins and another team brought him in as well and they both passed on him so it's questionable what this all means. the phins are known for taking risks on talented players with problems such as david boston, so if they passed, there's still gotta be things people are seeing that they don't like.

 

[Keegs]

BB and Pioli wouldn't have worked him out if they didn't think they could use him. Most people said they'd never even look at him and never even think about working him out.

excellent point.

 

[amazinPats]

I guess I'm in the camp of a good teacher can fix a bad student. I also think a good teacher isn't afraid of a bad student.

Charles Rogers is a guy who is worth the risk. What's the worst that can happen? You kick him out on the curb. What's the best that can happen? It turns out that he was actually worth the 2nd overall pick in the draft, and just happened to be placed on the worst team with the worst system in the league and happened to have a few injuries. Take a chance, we need a 5th WR, why not go with the guy with the most talent?

Problem is that you have to release a good player in order to take a chance and be patient with this likely bum.

 

[mgteich]

We need a 5th wide in case of injury for the playoff and SB run. We have four wideouts who have been injured in the past.

1) We don't need a Practice Squad player from another team. We are not looking for a potential talent.

2) Rodgers is the best talent. I'm not sure why we're interested, given his history. But the risk isn't much, since we wouldn't pay him much.

3) If Johnson is physically near 100%, he'll be a patriot. We've wanted him for years. He could get a 2 or 3 year contract, with an injury clause and incentives.

4) Gaffney is Gaffney, an OK #4 receiver who can be pressed into action when needed.

5) No matter how we feel, Childress has no future here, at least this year.

6) No matter how we feel, we are not all set at wide receiver.

MY CHOICE
Johnson if the doctors think he has recovered or is close. If not, Gaffney. Plan C is to keep on looking.

We might still be considering trades. It could be that we are checking out free agents before deciding to use a draft pick for this need.

 

[Ceresco]

I think all three are on the same level, Rogers has the most potential but at the same time he's the biggest risk. I'm interested to see if we actually sign one of these guys or not.