Pats worked out Shaun Ellis

[NinjaZX6R]

Ellis was drafted as a 4/3 DE and played half his career in the 4/3, until Mangini.

.

Thought he played 4-3 DT as the 3 tech?.

 

[Off The Grid]

While Edwards has more talent then either Cotchery or Ellis, his problem is that he's gong to get a call from the Commish before the season and could see a suspension of some kind. He's definitely a talent loss to the Jets. I think Plaxico is a BIG down grade at the position. Most Jet fans will disagree.

But my point is that Cotch and Ellis are great lockerroom guys.

With both of them gone, I think the Jets lose some of that stability you get from true professionals.

Now I wouldn't endorse bringing Cotch in, but that's because of the 3 young guys I want to see get to develop. He certainly wouldn't hurt us, but coming off the back surgery and who we already have, I wouldn't do it.

Not only "stability" and "great locker room guys" ~ both of which are true ~ but the Hard Yard guys ~ guys who persistently train, study, and consistently do the 1000 little things that, ultimately, make the difference between a Madden FootBall team and a Championship FootBall team.

 

[TriplecHamp]

His fallback plan was to apparently bring back Cromartie.

was a good move on their part, Kyle wilson starting opposite of Revis and they don't go very far this season IMO

 

[supafly]

was a good move on their part, Kyle wilson starting opposite of Revis and they don't go very far this season IMO

Oh, no doubt. As much as we all hate the NYJ (Gunnails not included), you've got to give credit to the job that the 2 of them did as a tandem last yr.

To be honest, (and I hate to admit it) I think Cromartie did a sufficient enough job last yr, much better than I expected from him.

My god, he's a DoucheBag, but the rivalry just wouldn't be the same without him, IMO.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I'd pass on Ellis. He had a subpar year but everyone remembers how good he was against the Patriots in the playoffs. He's old and declining and wasn't much of a factor during the regular season.

He has played in both a 3-4 and 4-3 schemes. He's played 2 gap 3-4 under Mangini and Al Groh, he's played 1 gap 3-4 or 4-6 or w/e you wanna call it under Rex. He's played 1 gap 4-3 under Herm Edwards, when he made the Pro Bowl and had his best statistical seasons.

He's basically done it all except play a 2 gap 4-3 (which are rare), so I don't know how him visiting "proves" we are staying with the 3-4. He's shown the ability to play in multiple schemes and have success.

I just think he's a little too old now to be counted on at the age of 34.

 

[supafly]

I'd pass on Ellis. He had a subpar year but everyone remembers how good he was against the Patriots in the playoffs. He's old and declining and wasn't much of a factor during the regular season.

He has played in both a 3-4 and 4-3 schemes. He's played 2 gap 3-4 under Mangini and Al Groh, he's played 1 gap 3-4 or 4-6 or w/e you wanna call it under Rex. He's played 1 gap 4-3 under Herm Edwards, when he made the Pro Bowl and had his best statistical seasons.

He's basically done it all except play a 2 gap 4-3 (which are rare), so I don't know how him visiting "proves" we are staying with the 3-4. He's shown the ability to play in multiple schemes and have success.

I just think he's a little too old now to be counted on at the age of 34.

You make some good points BBF79, but sometimes there's the veteran experience that comes with the age too. In other words, he's not a CB, or a RB, so we don't really need super speed etc at the position. If he can shed blocks and pressure the QB from time to time, I'm all for it. Even if it's just for depth, it's not really a 'bad' signing in my opinion. Not too pricey, so there's not a whole lot of risk.

One way or another they will need some more decent talent on the line/front 7. They continue to pass on players such as Harris, Brock, and Roth too--although he has not been signed by anyone as of yet. I really wouldn't be opposed to bringing back G.Warren, hell--I wasn't opposed to Stroud even. If Ellis can still play at a somewhat mediocre to higher level for another yr or even two, then I'm game to root him on.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

You make some good points BBF79, but sometimes there's the veteran experience that comes with the age too. In other words, he's not a CB, or a RB, so we don't really need super speed etc at the position. If he can shed blocks and pressure the QB from time to time, I'm all for it. Even if it's just for depth, it's not really a 'bad' signing in my opinion. Not too pricey, so there's not a whole lot of risk.

One way or another they will need some more decent talent on the line/front 7. They continue to pass on players such as Harris, Brock, and Roth too--although he has not been signed by anyone as of yet. I really wouldn't be opposed to bringing back G.Warren, hell--I wasn't opposed to Stroud even. If Ellis can still play at a somewhat mediocre to higher level for another yr or even two, then I'm game to root him on.

Oh I agree that it wouldn't be a "bad" signing, I'd just prefer to go after someone a little younger with some fresher legs. I liked the idea of Tommie Harris more than Ellis.

Ellis looked old/slow/declining to me for most of the season, but he did show up big time in the playoffs. Maybe he was just pacing himself or saving himself for later in the season because he knew he couldn't go 100% every play at his age without wearing down.

I agree that they need some more bodies in the front 7. I liked the Stroud signing and wish he would've been healthy enough to stay with us. Tony Brown was just cut by Tennessee and I thought he'd be worth a look, but it seems like he's still having some knee problems.

I'd like to see them make a play for another interior defensive lineman -- one that can shoot gaps and penetrate like Mike Wright -- as well as an edge rusher (4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB). I'm a big Cunningham fan, but I'm just not that fond of Ninkovich or Moore being a starter on this defense.

 

[Sparetire]

I think its somewhat hypocritical from Ellis cause he was the one who said brady did the finger on the 45-3 game, and bashed the pats on the media on playoff time. but who cares? he is a good player. isnt he the draft pick that the pats gave to the jets on the 2000's draft?

 

[Bostonian1962]

I am being sarcastic. I do not believe we will abandon the 2 gap. It doesnt matter much to me whether we line up in 34 or 43, but we've accumulated 34 personell for years, and have a grand total of 1 new front 7 player.
It appears many posters think that BB will cater to whatever Hayneswroth wants to be able to do, and I just find that silly.

I'm not taking sides, because I don't know what BB has in mind. I'm not on his speed dial. But, if they plan to play more 4-3, they may have started planning for it before just now. I mean the Haynesworth move is not all they have done. It's not the only thing that makes it more likely.

How about for starters they cut Banta-Cain and Ty Warren, and Ty Warren upon leaving said "it looks like they are going away from the 3-4". So, a player, no longer sworn to secrecy, because he's not still a Patriots SAID they are going away from the 3-4.

Last year they drafted two key defensive players both coming from a 4-3 defense, in Cunningham and Spikes. They bring in Eric Moore a career 4-3 defensive end. This year they bring in the aforementioned Haynesworth, who thrived as a 3 Technique in a 4-3.

You mentioned that Roth and Ellis are strictly 3-4 players. Wrong. Both previously played 4-3 Defensive Ends. Roth was converted by Paul Pascauloni in 2008, when the Dolphins switched to the 3-4. Ellis' only Pro Bowls were as a 4-3 DE.

Will they finally convert? I don't know, but they have PLENTY of talent, beyond even what I just mentioned to do so, if BB feels the need.

 

[Sicilian]

I think if BB had his way, and players like this existed in real life, he would play the "11" defense, in which there are no positions, just 11 guys that are interchangeable and can fulfill any role at any time.

Obviously that's impossible, but I think what we'll see this year is basically the defensive version of what happened to the offense last year. With the emergence of the TEs last year, we were swapping packages practically every play to keep defenses guessing. We can't do as much wholesale subbing on defense because the offense dictates the flow more, but if you've got a "line" of Cunningham-Haynesworth-Wilfork-Wright with we'll say Mayo-Spikes-Guyton(or your Sam of choice), that front can EASILY switch back and forth between 4-3 and 3-4 without a single change in personnel.

Even between the set and the snap, all they'd need to do is have Cunningham stand up, shift Mayo inside a little more, maybe shift the big guys over depending on the play and boom. 3-4.

Of course, this has been true for almost every season. I just think we have especially good personnel (potentially) for it this year.

 

[Gunnails]

Thought he played 4-3 DT as the 3 tech?.

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J Abe and Ellis were book ends, Ferguson and D Rob were the tackles.


I don't know about 3 tech or any of that.

 

[Joker]

Hey Guns...whatever happened to DeBlubbergutsterbusterson or whatever that runt "Boss,DeWayne!! DeWayne!!" Herve Villechaize clone D lineman was called...it's like the league swallowed him up after the Jets dumped him...

 

[Gunnails]

thanks gunny,good info.hey btw...what was little tanny's fall-back plan if he lost out on aso?

He resigned Brodney Pool,late,yet no interest in Donte Witner or Jared Page?......strange.

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Cromartie, I don't think the Jets like to pay at the safety position, they should have OK depth there with Leonard, Smith, Pool, and Lowery.

 

[Joker]

man...sorry...THAT is some really obscure Fantasy Island stuff...:bricks:

 

[Gunnails]

Hey Guns...whatever happened to DeBlubbergutsterbusterson or whatever that runt "Boss,DeWayne!! DeWayne!!" Herve Villechaize clone D lineman was called...it's like the league swallowed him up after the Jets dumped him...

=====================================

Turns out he had bone on bone knees coming out of college, Jets traded him to Denver Ryans first year for a 6th. He was out of the league a year later.

 

[Joker]

so...he was the FOURTH pick in the 2003 draft? another Bradway boondoggle...no wonder Tannenbaum took over...Johnson should have sued him for conduct detrimental

 

[jwmann2]

Patriots should sign both. Crowder would be an excellent backup linebacker while I think Ellis would start off the bat. Word is the Jets are pursuing Ellis still, he just wants to shop around.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I am being sarcastic. I do not believe we will abandon the 2 gap. It doesnt matter much to me whether we line up in 34 or 43, but we've accumulated 34 personell for years, and have a grand total of 1 new front 7 player.
It appears many posters think that BB will cater to whatever Hayneswroth wants to be able to do, and I just find that silly.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they'll "abandon" any defensive scheme.

Last year the Pats played both the 3-4 and the 4-3. The frequency likely dependent on available players on the roster and the competition.

I suspect it will be the same way this year, potentially with more 4-3 than before, since so many teams have copied Belichick in recent years with the 3-4, increasing competition and price, while freeing up potentially good 4-3 defensive players who can be had on the cheap with the lower market demand.

When other teams begin to copycat Belichick and move back to a 4-3 I would expect Belichick to take advantage of that situation and stock up on affordable 3-4 players.

 

[Kontradiction]

Personally, I would pass on Ellis. He is up there in age and wasn't particularly good last year (even his playoff game vs. the Pats was a bit overrated because at least one of his sacks was a coverage sack).

The only reason I would want him to sign would be to piss off Jets fans.

The only reason I would want to sign him is because he's an actual starting quality DE in the 3-4.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think anyone is suggesting they'll "abandon" any defensive scheme.

I am referring to abandoning the 2 gap philosophy, which he has employed as his base every time he has been the decision maker.

Last year the Pats played both the 3-4 and the 4-3. The frequency likely dependent on available players on the roster and the competition.

In the base it was 34 abut 80 to 90% of the time.

I suspect it will be the same way this year, potentially with more 4-3 than before, since so many teams have copied Belichick in recent years with the 3-4, increasing competition and price, while freeing up potentially good 4-3 defensive players who can be had on the cheap with the lower market demand.

Again 34 of 43 is inconsequential to me, its the same concept, same personell and a little different alignment.

When other teams begin to copycat Belichick and move back to a 4-3 I would expect Belichick to take advantage of that situation and stock up on affordable 3-4 players.

My point is that I would be overwhelmingly shocked if after running a 2gap scheme his entire career, he adopts a 1 gap.