Pats Offseason Review - Offense

[jbb9s]

JBB9S - Jordan is under the Free Agent section since he is a free agent this year.

Personally, I'd kick Jordan to the curb and give the reps to BJGE or give them to a draft pick. What I find funny is that when everyone was going gah-gah over BJGE and saying that he meant the end of Maroney, I was preaching patience. Yet, now everyone wants Jordan even though the guy only had 2 good games. Both games were ones where he had a chip on his shoulder. The Jets and Raiders.

Like I said, Jordan probably plays for the vet minimum so there is no downside to at least bringing him back to camp if he will come. If BJGE beats him out for the #4 spot (behind Maroney, Morris, Faulk) then so be it. But I think Jordan in 2009 is better than BJGE in 2009. BB had a lot of confidence in Jordan who got carries down the stretch when BJGE was inactive.

Sometimes great teams just don't have room for development guys (i.e. Garrett Mills, Chad Jackson, white RB from Navy, Gutz before the Brady injury).

 

[DaBruinz]

all 4 haven't lived up to where they were drafted. all 4 were known for their speed. games speed isn't even the same as combine speed anyways. just look at welker and moss. welker has quick speed. moss has high end.

the 4 players i mentionned were supposedly known for their speed and their speed hasn't made them game changers on a consistent basis.

not great draft picks

watson needs to go when his contract is up. nice guy but doesn't produce.

same with maroney. has produced but can't count on him. too often injured.

Bethel and Jackson clearly didn't live up to expectations. But did you stop to think that maybe, just MAYBE, your expectations are the issue with Watson and Maroney.

You are making judgements on Maroney and Jackson without knowing anything about them. First you make the assinine claim that Maroney was a Combine wonder. Now, after two people have told you that you were wrong, you are back-tracking in a poor attempt to CYA. You can't just admit you were wrong in your statements and move on.

From what I see, one of several issues here is your lack of understanding and your incorrect interpretations of what players were and weren't touted as coming out of college. You have the choice. You can keep digging the hole and making yourself look more foolish or just admit that you were wrong and move on. In all honesty, you'll be doing so from ignore because I am tired of trying to give you relevent information only to have you dismiss it even when others have supported it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Like I said, Jordan probably plays for the vet minimum so there is no downside to at least bringing him back to camp if he will come. If BJGE beats him out for the #4 spot (behind Maroney, Morris, Faulk) then so be it. But I think Jordan in 2009 is better than BJGE in 2009. BB had a lot of confidence in Jordan who got carries down the stretch when BJGE was inactive.

Sometimes great teams just don't have room for development guys (i.e. Garrett Mills, Chad Jackson, white RB from Navy, Gutz before the Brady injury).

As I stated, its my belief that BB gave the carries to Jordan to help showcase him for the free agency period. The reality is that he just didn't run that well except against the Jets and Raiders. Outside those 2 games, Jordan had 57 carries for 204 yards. A 3.5 YPC. I just think BJGE's youth is more of a benefit from a health standpoint.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Bethel and Jackson clearly didn't live up to expectations. But did you stop to think that maybe, just MAYBE, your expectations are the issue with Watson and Maroney.

You are making judgements on Maroney and Jackson without knowing anything about them. First you make the assinine claim that Maroney was a Combine wonder. Now, after two people have told you that you were wrong, you are back-tracking in a poor attempt to CYA. You can't just admit you were wrong in your statements and move on.

From what I see, one of several issues here is your lack of understanding and your incorrect interpretations of what players were and weren't touted as coming out of college. You have the choice. You can keep digging the hole and making yourself look more foolish or just admit that you were wrong and move on. In all honesty, you'll be doing so from ignore because I am tired of trying to give you relevent information only to have you dismiss it even when others have supported it.

honestly i've never really cared for you. but i will go on and say that maroney is fast. so it brings up the definition of what is a combine workout warrior. well guess what he wasn't clocked as slow as heck. i stand by the combine part. all 4 of those guys had good combines.

we had dillon at the time and BB wanted to add speed. the whole point of the offense the past few years has been to add speed. maroney isn't exactly a bruiser. he can't handle it. all 4 of those guys were and are not bruisers. another common trait of them is that they have and are continuously injured. the expectations coming out of college for a first or second round draft pick it to become a starter. and more importantly to produce in the pros. none of them have come close to what is expected to them. between watson's drops, chad's drops and failure to know the playbook, bethels inability to learn the playbook, and maroney's dancing and running out of bounds instead of taking the hit for extra yards, they all haven't lived to their billing. how come these so called speed guys are always injured?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I'm not singling anybody out on this one but lot's of people on this board would agree that Maroney can't stay on the field. While true, there are other RB's that have had the same problem as well. First, Sammy Morris was out for year week 6 while only being used as a compliment to Maroney. This year, Morris and Jordan missed plenty of games. So, Morris and Jordan are just as injury prone as Maroney. The only back on this roster that is consistently on the field is Faulk. Also, I don't agree with MrBigglesworth that Maroney just runs out of bounds to avoid contact. On the contrary, I've seen Maroney lays some wood when he's in the open field and he has a vicious stiff arm. The problem is he gets these nagging injuries that he just can't shake off. The upside for Maroney is he's still young and will be cheap to resign unless he pulls a DeAngelo Williams next season.

And about Maroney being a workout warrior, he wasn't. While running a 4.45 is fast, it's not workout warrior fast. In fact, most of the running backs in that draft were overshadowed by Reggie Bush.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Maroney has proven he can play in the NFL. Much of the issue to start this season was clearly the O-line and the fact that whatever rehab/surgery was done on his shoulder wasn't enough to get him fully healthy.

Let me clarify, Maroney can play. However, he has to prove that he can stay on the field.

I guess I don't see what other people see when it comes to Jordan. He had 2 good games and the rest stunk. Putting up 97 yards against the Raiders was no big feat. BJGE stepped up just as much and is 7 years younger.

What ever happened to the "law firm?" He had a couple good games and then dissapeared.

I disagree that it needs to be a TE. A receiver, in general, who can command the middle. Also, the Patriots havent' used the TE to control the middle of the field since Christian Fauria left, really. I don't know if Brady just doesn't trust the receivers there or what.

I'm just saying that the Pat's TE's that should take advantage of the double teams of Moss and Welker.

Matt Birk will be 33 when the season starts.. Adding him really doesn't so anything for the team in my honest opinion. I also don't see Tauscher as being an answer at RT. Gross could be, but how much of an upgrade is he over Kaczur? And is that level of upgrade worth 5-6 million more than what the Pats are paying Kaczur?

These were just names being thrown around. I still think that their interior part of their line needs some serious upgrade. Too many times during the year on third and short we would see Koppen getting bull rushed into the backfield causing a loss of yards.

 

[DarrylS]

As I stated, its my belief that BB gave the carries to Jordan to help showcase him for the free agency period. The reality is that he just didn't run that well except against the Jets and Raiders. Outside those 2 games, Jordan had 57 carries for 204 yards. A 3.5 YPC. I just think BJGE's youth is more of a benefit from a health standpoint.

Gotta disagree with that one, as it makes no sense.. BB would used Jordan over BJGE to showcase him for the freeagency period??.. not sure BB would do anything like this as he always puts the best group on the field with the intent of winning. I think Jordan got the nod over BJGE, because of experience and sure handedness..

Thought Jordan played well, and gave us a different dimension at RB.. love to see this guy come back. BJGE did ok, but not sure he is an answer at RB.

 

[Triumph]

You clearly never watched him in college.

Who fing cares about college?

He isnt doing it at the NFL level. Maroney is a fragile dancer.

 

[tedylb]

WOW. You know nothing about Maroney. Maroney wasn't a combine guy in any way. And please don't be stupid and claim that he never was the primary back in Minnesota because he was. People point to him splitting carries yet they fail to acknowledge that Minnesota, during his tenure there, ran the ball more than every NFL offense for the 3 years that Maroney was there. And Maroney ran the plays appropriately.

And, really, nothing about Jackson. Go back and do some research about Jackson and you'll find that it took him 2 seasons of playing before it finally clicked for him. Both at the High School and College levels.

The problem with your "evaluations" is that they are knee-jerk and poorly researched. And, as a result, you don't know nearly what you think you do on the players you are commenting on.

Why do you have to stoop to calling people "stupid" just because they disagree with your opinions? This reflects very poorly on your credibility. Believe it or not, sometimes you are wrong, and dissenters are not "stupid", "morons" or "assinine" just because they don't accept all of your beliefs as the gospel. Please leave the name-calling to the genuises on the Jets and Yankee boards. Thank you.

 

[satz]

Their are weird comments on watson ,he drops balls and need to work on this this year but he has been very good in blocking and really developed that skillset. he must have put in some time and i want him to put same effort catching with his hands.

Against the jets and other teams you can see how fast he is as the LB were not able to stay with him.also putting chad jackson ,bethel johnson with watson who played 837 of 1102 (76 percent) of the snaps this year makes no sense what so ever.

 

[dalero]

TE: they've kind of become irrelevant, but I felt better about the offense when we had a tough one.....I wouldn't mind going out and getting a guy like will heller for depth

Is this our offenses philosophy or total lack of confidence in our personel? I don't think Dave Thomas ever saw the field again after his costly personal foul.

 

[PATS68]

Maroney was called out by the coaching staff last year about his toughnest and heart to play the game. This was all over the media when it happened.

DaBruinz, there have been about 500 RB's that had great vision in college and done nothing in the NFL. The list is soo long, it would take me a week to write it.

I agree and disagree with DaBruinz with show casing Jordan. BB has rewarded players who have been good team guys with a little playing time. BB put Vinny in the game to get a TD to set some record. Put Flutie in the game for the drop kick. Put Eckle in the game to get him a TD vs Dallas. Parcells did it with OJ Anderson and a few others.

No doubt in my mind during the Raiders game if the Pats were 1st and goal from the 1, BB was going to let Jordan score a TD. During the 5th quarter, BB said in his post game press conf. that it was nice for Jordan and Moss to both have scored TDs.

To show case him for FA makes no sense. Why?

 

[DaBruinz]

Let me clarify, Maroney can play. However, he has to prove that he can stay on the field.


What ever happened to the "law firm?" He had a couple good games and then dissapeared.

The veteran RBs got healthy and returned. The Patriots carried only 3 RBs on the game day rosters.

I'm just saying that the Pat's TE's that should take advantage of the double teams of Moss and Welker.

You won't see me disagree with you there. However, we don't know what plays the Pats are calling and what the responsibilities of the TEs are on those plays. I've not been impressed with the TE development over the last 5 years and I would love for BB to make a change there.

These were just names being thrown around. I still think that their interior part of their line needs some serious upgrade. Too many times during the year on third and short we would see Koppen getting bull rushed into the backfield causing a loss of yards.

In the draft threads, I've mentioned adding an OG to train behind Neal. As for Koppen, I believe he was playing much of the year with an injury. Mankins is a beast and everyone has a down year. Even the great John Hannah had a bad year now and then. The interior O-line needs 2 reserve guys who have the potential to be starters.

 

[JMarr]

Their are weird comments on watson ,he drops balls and need to work on this this year but he has been very good in blocking and really developed that skillset. he must have put in some time and i want him to put same effort catching with his hands.

Against the jets and other teams you can see how fast he is as the LB were not able to stay with him.also putting chad jackson ,bethel johnson with watson who played 837 of 1102 (76 percent) of the snaps this year makes no sense what so ever.

I totally agree with you about Watson. Will he ever be a Gonzales or Gates? Probably not, but come on. Watson is still a work in progress and could be a very, very good TE in the NFL. Alot of us have jumped on him for his "doh!" moments, but Moss, Gaffney and even Welker all had their share of drops this year so people need to look past the First Round draft pick thing and let this guy develop some more. I'm almost certain that that is BB's plan.

 

[DaBruinz]

Who fing cares about college?

He isnt doing it at the NFL level. Maroney is a fragile dancer.

1) Much of the "dancing" has come when the O-line didn't do its job. Particularly the start of this season. Or are you seriously going to tell me that the O-line was doing an excellent job run blocking to start the season?

2) Instead of being stupid, how about you follow the thread. The poster I was responding to was the one making the erroneous comments about Maroney coming out of college.

3) Maroney's best year was when the Pats weren't zone blocking. Think about that. This year, Morris, BJGE, and Jordan had more success when the Pats weren't zone blocking.

4) Yes, Maroney has been injured. But people seem to forget that everyone heals differently. And everyone seems to forget we don't know what Maroney's injury was. Maroney's shoulder may not have been fully healthy to start the season and that is a very plausible reason as to why he was IRed again. So that it could get fully healthy.

5) Kevin Faulk was injury prone for a while there. Now he's everyone's 3rd down saviour.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why do you have to stoop to calling people "stupid" just because they disagree with your opinions? This reflects very poorly on your credibility. Believe it or not, sometimes you are wrong, and dissenters are not "stupid", "morons" or "assinine" just because they don't accept all of your beliefs as the gospel. Please leave the name-calling to the genuises on the Jets and Yankee boards. Thank you.

I call them like I see them. If you don't like it, put me on ignore. But don't tell me how to post since you clearly don't understand the situation into which you are trying to thrust yourself.

BTW, enjoy ignore since you bring absolutely nothing to the table on the topic.

 

[DaBruinz]

Is this our offenses philosophy or total lack of confidence in our personel? I don't think Dave Thomas ever saw the field again after his costly personal foul.

Thomas was on the field a lot after that penalty.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maroney was called out by the coaching staff last year about his toughnest and heart to play the game. This was all over the media when it happened.

Wrong. People ASSUMED it was Maroney who was being called out because that's what they wanted to believe. But the coaching staff did NOT name names.

DaBruinz, there have been about 500 RB's that had great vision in college and done nothing in the NFL. The list is soo long, it would take me a week to write it.

Good, start writing and let everyone know when you are finished. BTW, after you are finished, take a look at Maroney's stats..

I agree and disagree with DaBruinz with show casing Jordan. BB has rewarded players who have been good team guys with a little playing time. BB put Vinny in the game to get a TD to set some record. Put Flutie in the game for the drop kick. Put Eckle in the game to get him a TD vs Dallas. Parcells did it with OJ Anderson and a few others.

No doubt in my mind during the Raiders game if the Pats were 1st and goal from the 1, BB was going to let Jordan score a TD. During the 5th quarter, BB said in his post game press conf. that it was nice for Jordan and Moss to both have scored TDs.

To show case him for FA makes no sense. Why?

Why? Hmm.. because the Pats had no intention of brining him back and as a reward for being a good team guy who got only a little playing time?

 

[tedylb]

I call them like I see them. If you don't like it, put me on ignore. But don't tell me how to post since you clearly don't understand the situation into which you are trying to thrust yourself.

BTW, enjoy ignore since you bring absolutely nothing to the table on the topic.

I rest my case.

 

[DaBruinz]

I rest my case.

How did you do that? By trying to hijack the thread with drivel that isn't on topic? If anything, you proved MINE.

OH. and I suggest you go an educate yourself on the 1st Amendment some.