PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Pats - Colts Divisional Round Discussion Thread


Status
Not open for further replies.
The Colts message board is lined with comments on:

- Brady has been less than stellar in playoff games since 2007
- The Pats have no answer for TY
- Their D will get to Brady
- Donald Brown is the next Marshall Faulk
- Landry will destroy Edelman and Amendola

Highly predictable and borderline funny.

We'll see if its true come Sat.

Like he did Bowe? :bricks:

We do have an answer for TY and their names are Dennard and McCourtey.

Donald Brown is Jeckyll and Hyde....And Brady has had some difficulties in the Playoffs since 2007 but fortunately for Brady the Colts defense is not one that will give Brady fits i.e. Giants, Jets and Ravens.

My question is how do they stop the our run game? If they load the box with 8 or 9 how do they defend against the pass? It will be a choose your poison situation for their defense.
 
You're talking about the way different teams match-up with Hilton and Fleener, not the Pats. The Pats match up with Hilton and do it well because both of their CB's are capable of shutting him down man to man. What the Pats have trouble with are TE's and RB's due to the speed of their LB's. That's why I would expect the Pats to focus in on Fleener moreso than Hilton.

Yes, the Pats have problems with TEs, but so does most of the rest of the league. Did you watch this weekend? It was a weekend where TEs played big roles in several games.

I still think Fleener is just average to above average. If he creates the Pats the most problems on Saturday, the Pats probably win the game by double digits.
 
Any team can win any game. That said, I feel the Patriots have a solid shot at this one. Colts do not have much of a running game, which is huge since the Patriots have trouble stopping the run.

That means stop Hilton and the Patriots could contain the Colts offense. I like the Patriots chances.

The Patriots offense is more of a mystery to me. If they commit to running the ball, throw short passes to keep Brady upright and make use of play-action effectively, then the Patriots should be okay. However, if the Patriots abandon the run, like they have done in the past, like KC did on Saturday, then the offense will likely struggle.

Stay with the run, that will be key to a Patriots victory.
 
The Patriots should be able to do whatever they want on offense. They could hand it to James Develin and still be able to put up points. Indy's defense stinks.
 
Interesting stat: The Colts are 13th in the NFL in yards per carry (4.3), but when you remove Luck's 377 yards at 6.0 ypc, the Colts ypc goes down to 3.9.
 
Some comments on the comments:

1. First of all, this a good thread. Sane, realistic, and informative. I learned a lot and that's the best thing you can say about a thread.

2. Going into the wildcard games I feared the Colts more, but as I watched the Bengals melt down, I started to root hard for them for the following reasons. Most importantly, they had players dropping like they were Patriots, so the defense the Pats were likely to face, would NOT be the one that fans have so correctly pointed out, gives the Pats trouble. Also Cinci would have been on a short week, and then there is the whole Dalton thing which seemed to play out just as many suspected.

3. But the Colts are the team, and we should all remember the one fact that we all agree on. The Pats CAN beat any team that they possibly might play in these playoffs. BUT....there is no team that doesn't have the capability to beat the Pats if they play a sub par game.

4. The Colts D sucks on paper and could get worse with some losses from the wildcard game.
However I would remind people that in the Colts superbowl year when they had a defense that ranked in the THIRTIES during the regular season, they won the Lombardi on the backs of their DEFENSE. In fact, the ONLY game where Manning excelled was the AFCCG against the Pats. The rest of the time they relied on their D to win. IIRC Manning didn't even have 200 yds in the superbowl. I say this only as a warning. Bad D's can turn in around in a short playoff run.

BTW- another decent example is the 2011 Pats D, who were historically bad during the regular season, and wound up being the 4th best D during the playoffs So who knows.

5. There were some really good thoughts about how to defend the Colts 2 main passing threats. And after some thought I'd like to offer my ideas. First a disclaimer. I am going to give just one coverage idea. A key element to successfully defending the pass in this day and age is having several coverage options. Confusing the QB is key to stopping him. So keep this in mind.

a. Talib is clearly our best CB and although the short quick guy gives him problems, you should always play your best on their best. Besides Talib is very physical and has a huge advantage in press coverage against the relatively frail Hilton. That being said, in virtually every coverage short of a maximum blitz, you can double one receiver, so in this game I worry less about Hilton's speed when the Pats will likely have someone over the top against him on every play. I'd play Talib on the inside shoulder, cutting off the quick slant and crossing routes by position and allow him only outside releases. Talib would now have great underneath position forcing Luck to throw the ball over a much taller DB, and dropping it in to him before the S gets there. That's not easy, and if underthrown just a bit, results in pick. So by this coverage you are making it difficult for Hilton to hurt you over the middle, and it would take the perfect pass to hurt you deep outside. A pass made even more difficult by the fact you are playing outside in January in NE, rather than in a dome.

b. In most coverages, with even 4 man rushes, you can usually afford to double 2 players. Well what do you know the Colts have 2 key receivers. ;) I think we have the perfect Fleenerator in Jamie Collins. He has the speed to run with him, the size to match up, and almost the same athletic skills. I'd have Collins matched up on him even when he goes outside. If he lines up inside, you have a S to take the top off any deep seem route When he lines up outside, you have a CB in a zone behind Fleener to take the top off any deep routes he might run. Again you align Collins on his inside shoulder and force outside releases. I want to force Luck to throw deep outside between two defenders in order to beat us. I do NOT want to have him making easy short throws on inside the numbers

c. I give the above as just one coverage. I wouldn't have a problem changing it and have a healthy Dennard on Hilton and Talib on the much larger Brazile if the Colts start to target him on small CB's

d. Also not mentioned are the myriad of zone and combo coverages that can be put into the game plan too numerous to mention.

6. One thing I got out of this thread was that the Colts don't have a lot of offensive weapons to fear beyond Luck and Hilton. Well think about what they are saying in Indy. Who do the Pats have that scares anyone beyond Brady. The Pats simply don't have a TE that gets more than 3 targets a game. Our top receiver is a midget barely averaging 10 ypc, and the only WR who's a deep threat and has size is very doubtful. So basically all they have is Deion Branch, Wes Welker and Wes Welker jr on a bad groin. Certainly not a scary line up, especially when you have a zero TE threat

7. The Pats are going to line up in a power running formation a lot. They are going to see 8 man fronts....a lot. They are going to have to throw the ball to the TE's a FB.....a lot.....more. I mean they don't have to be Gronk-like deep throws down the seam, but I hope Josh crafts a series of short outs, dump offs, and middle releases, that will make a consistent 5-10 yds and force the Colts to respect the TE's as a threat.

8. I think the Pats will get some sort of man coverage, because that's the best coverage to stop quick screens, slow screens and the short passing game the pats want to run. Then when you force the Pats into bunch formations to counter the man coverage, and when you see it you audible to some sort of preplanned zone which will frustrate the hell Brady.

I think to counter that likely eventuality, Josh will have a number of routes that come off that look and take advantage of the likelihood some DB or LB is jumping the screen or crossing looks. Something like the ones I mention in Sunday's idle thought, only a lot more.

9. Mathis is going to be a tough threat for Solder and Cannon, he's truly had a great season and is one of the better pass rushers around. However in Dante we trust. The Pats have usually done very well protecting Brady from great outside rushers. Its the inside rush I fear. That's why I think we'll see TE's being key. Having a TE moves Mathis out about 4 more feet (or another half second). All the TE has to do is take away Mathis' first step, and THEN I want him out in some route. I believe that kind of chip and run would neutralize Mathis for the most part. Anything under 3 sacks will be a win for the OL.

10. If Luck were a stationary QB, I'd love our chances of burying him under a raft of pressure, but he isn't and lane discipline is going to be mandatory and unfortunately that limits the effectiveness of our pass rushes. No inside moves because you have to keep him inside the pocket. Hard to be effective when you cut your options in half.

That being said there are things you can do, and most of them are going to have come from the middle. I think when Luck is in the shot gun it is mandatory that when present a threat to the gaps on either side of C on EVERY snap. Now you don't come every time, but you HAVE to threaten it. Then about 4 times a game you come with that outside DB blitz that would allow the DE's to make that inside move. The key here is disguising it well, perhaps even delaying it.

11. And in the end, after even the longest posts and explanations, it generally comes down to which team takes care of the ball the best. Its going to be cold, but not unbearably, and it could be wet, based on long range forecasts, so the team that gets the strip sacks, picks, and fumbles is likely going to win the game.
 
I won't quote - that was a book. The only thing I will comment on is the Deion Branch inclusion in the WR's. If you are talking old Deion - everyone we have is better than that Branch, so I doubt you are referring to him. We have no WR to compare with Branch during the glory years. He could and did stretch the field - we do not have a WR to that. Dobson showed flashes, but nothing consistent and whether or not it was because of injury - the fact remains he is still injured. If someone can show up and be Branch - I like our chances more. It would open up Edelman and Vereen in space. Fun! Fun! Fun!
 
I'd be more worried about facing the Cinci. I think we matchup pretty well in this game.
 
I don't know why are you surprised about that. Well, you say you aren't, yet, you felt to point all that out. Fans will be fans. You have the "same exact" types over here. Everybody do. It's just how some fans handle big games, they come up with theories that can reassure them. In reality, the Pats are favorites, but i don't think anybody would be shocked if it's a close game.

I simply replied to a previous post asking how Colts fans feel about the game. Not surprised or pointing anything out and not even saying the fans are incorrect.

:rolleyes:
 
BTW- I found that stat on the fact that the Pats were 4th in the league in opposing QB completion %. That is really quite stunning. So with that in mind I wonder if any of the stat nerd (and I say thing with the most respect) would indulge me in answers to the following questions.

1. Over the past 5 games what were the average rushing yds allowed, and would THAT average rank in the league?

2. What % of that rushing yardage were done by QB's

3. Do the Colts have anyone with more than 6 sacks besides Mathis. BTW they had 42, so Mathis had about half of them.

4. What did the Colt rushing D do over the last 5 games of the regular season?

Thanks
 
Yes, the Pats have problems with TEs, but so does most of the rest of the league. Did you watch this weekend? It was a weekend where TEs played big roles in several games.

I still think Fleener is just average to above average. If he creates the Pats the most problems on Saturday, the Pats probably win the game by double digits.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I think Fleener is an elite TE. Either that, or you manufactured that opinion out of thin air. I didn't see he was elite or even very good. Just that the team needs to concentrate on him because Talib and Dennard are both capable of taking away Hilton and the Colts don't have much of a threat through the air either than those two.
 
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I think Fleener is an elite TE. Either that, or you manufactured that opinion out of thin air. I didn't see he was elite or even very good. Just that the team needs to concentrate on him because Talib and Dennard are both capable of taking away Hilton and the Colts don't have much of a threat through the air either than those two.

What about the speedy DHB?

:D
 
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I think Fleener is an elite TE. Either that, or you manufactured that opinion out of thin air. I didn't see he was elite or even very good. Just that the team needs to concentrate on him because Talib and Dennard are both capable of taking away Hilton and the Colts don't have much of a threat through the air either than those two.

Never said you thought he was elite. I just disagree he is that big of a factor in this game. He is a factor, but I don't think he is a big factor. I could be wrong, but that is what I think.

Personally, as I said before, Luck's biggest weakness is his overreliance on his primary receiver. It was originally Wayne and now it is Hilton. I think you take that away from him and his game goes to crap. When Luck has a sub par game, Hilton usually does too (moreso than Luck's other targets).
 
Patriots really been playing well in the divisional round lately. Back to back crushings of the Broncos in 2011 and the Texans in 2012.

I think this Saturday will follow that pattern.
 
I hope the Pats play a VERY physical game. I think in the three SB wins the Pats were the more physical team each and every time and thus won it all. Last year the Ravens beat us up and I thought the Giants were the more physical teams in both SBs. The Pats were just too finesse out there w/o Gronk at 100% or at all.

We need to set the tone and not just beat but also BEAT UP the Colts and then do the same thing to Den/SD and so on. This means running the ball and having our D smack the other team in the face like Pollard did to Ridley last year. This team does not have the finesse players that prior teams had (AH, Woody, Lloyd, Maroney, Moss and Welker for instance) so maybe they will be forced to be a more physical team and send a message to future opponents.

Sans Landry, who may not even play I think the Pats can out muscle the Colts D and run the ball down their throats. At the same time punish Donald Brown, Fleener, DHB and Whalen. None are truly physical specimens and Talib, McCourty, Arrington and Gregory all hit pretty hard. As do Spikes, Collins and Hightower. Set the tone the way Bruschi, Law, McGinest and Harrison once did.

Punish the Colts on EVERY offensive play!
 
I hope the refs let our DB's play like they allowed the DB's this past weekend to play.
 
We need to play 60 minutes...nuff said.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
Five Thoughts on the Patriots Draft Picks: Overall, Wolf Played it Safe
2024 Patriots Undrafted Free Agents – FULL LIST
MORSE: Thoughts on Patriots Day 3 Draft Results
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots Head Coach Jerod Mayo Post-Draft Press Conference
2024 Patriots Draft Picks – FULL LIST
Back
Top