Pats @ Bucs preseason game 2

[BradyManny]

Yes. The Cover 3 is weak on the seams and in one flat. You are asking your linebackers to get a lot of width to get into their coverages, especially on the flat. They read run first so its not like they can motor there at the snap of the ball.

Defense backs in the Cover 3, or in most any type of zone, float on the wide receiver's outside shoulder and watch their entire section of field, and if they're any good, the bordering zones (and if they're great, the QB's eyes).

This is why Tampa Bay completed a lot of bubbles, benches, and slants. CBs were on the outside shoulder and were often drifting deep, and the linebackers have to read run before they can drop into the seams. A quick slant is three steps by the wide receiver, then an speed cut inside at an angle determined by where the linebacker/safety is. Easy to complete if you can assume coverage presnap.

For similar reasons, the flat NOT covered by a defensive back is often open if the slant isn't, because the OLB covering it has the farthest distance to travel. So that opens up WR hitches, along with RB routes. In high school and college, you'll almost always see the Cover 3 OLB have his flat on the short side of the field for this reason, regardless of offensive strength.

OK, cool - now I know (or think) we played an awful lot of cover 3 last season and we saw the same areas of the field exploited. And as a result we saw a D that aimed to limit big plays, and went for a "bend don't break" approach. I think a lot of people - myself included - were expecting the coverage to be a little more aggressive this season for a number of reasons (Capers' influence, a more aggressive D would get the ball back in Brady's hands faster), can we chalk this up to it just being pre-season or is the cover 3 just BB's preference and best for the 3-4?

 

[Bostonian1962]

For those asking about coverages, the Pats played most of the night in a Cover 3. The basics of the Cover 3 are that 3 defensive backs fill the deep zones and allow no one - even receivers on the other side of the field - behind them. The 4th defensive back generally assumes coverage of a wide flat, and the linebackers cover the remaining flat, both hook/curl zones on the seams, and the "extra" pass defender (they often rushed 3) sits in the middle of the field.

A standard Cover 3 with the Stud taking a flat, most common coverage on the night:

    CB        FS        CB


SS        LB    LB    LB        LB

A Cover 3 Strong "Roll" with the CB jamming and 4 rushing, while the rest of the secondary rolls into deep coverage over top. (They did this a lot to Bryant and Wheatley, and away from Hobbs and Spann - which explains why so many outs and hitches were completed sequentially towards one side of the field, away from the jam)

    SS        FS        CB

CB        LB        LB        LB

Obviously you could also have coverages where a safety "robs" the seam passing lanes while OLBs take both flats... didn't notice many safeties in seam coverage, so to answer Shock's question earlier, it is unlikely the slant was Dillard's responsibility, that probably belonged to a linebacker.

At least, those were my impressions on the night.

EDIT: should note again these are just my impressions... I don't yet have a recording I can rewatch, may not get it either, we'll see

Allow me to throw my football prowess and knowledge around a little bit also. In assessing the game last night, and determining what the Pats were doing, I've summed it up as follows:

BAD stuff was happening out there, as in not good. You know, I didn't like it. It was yucky.

 

[JSn]

OK, cool - now I know (or think) we played an awful lot of cover 3 last season and we saw the same areas of the field exploited. And as a result we saw a D that aimed to limit big plays, and went for a "bend don't break" approach. I think a lot of people - myself included - were expecting the coverage to be a little more aggressive this season for a number of reasons (Capers' influence, a more aggressive D would get the ball back in Brady's hands faster), can we chalk this up to it just being pre-season or is the cover 3 just BB's preference and best for the 3-4?

I honestly think we'll see the hard blitzes in games with scarier QB's. Everyone wants to do well, but not get hurt, in an evaluation game. If that means saving the really risky plays for big games, so be it. I think we would have given up a lot of points to to keep the gains low regardless, but likely Brady under centre would have equaled a much closer score.

 

[BradyManny]

I honestly think we'll see the hard blitzes in games with scarier QB's. Everyone wants to do well, but not get hurt, in an evaluation game. If that means saving the really risky plays for big games, so be it. I think we would have given up a lot of points to to keep the gains low regardless, but likely Brady under centre would have equaled a much closer score.

Yeah, that makes sense for sure...hard to read too much into pre-season scheme wise.

 

[Shockt327]

For those asking about coverages, the Pats played most of the night in a Cover 3. The basics of the Cover 3 are that 3 defensive backs fill the deep zones and allow no one - even receivers on the other side of the field - behind them. The 4th defensive back generally assumes coverage of a wide flat, and the linebackers cover the remaining flat, both hook/curl zones on the seams, and the "extra" pass defender (they often rushed 3) sits in the middle of the field.

A standard Cover 3 with the Stud taking a flat, most common coverage on the night:

    CB        FS        CB


SS        LB    LB    LB        LB

A Cover 3 Strong "Roll" with the CB jamming and 4 rushing, while the rest of the secondary rolls into deep coverage over top. (They did this a lot to Bryant and Wheatley, and away from Hobbs and Spann - which explains why so many outs and hitches were completed sequentially towards one side of the field, away from the jam)

    SS        FS        CB

CB        LB        LB        LB

When the CB jams and the safeties roll to that side isn't it known as 'cloud' coverage? And referring to the first coverage you diagrammed (with the safety in the flat), isn't that known as "sky."

Obviously you could also have coverages where a safety "robs" the seam passing lanes while OLBs take both flats... didn't notice many safeties in seam coverage, so to answer Shock's question earlier, it is unlikely the slant was Dillard's responsibility, that probably belonged to a linebacker.

Robber coverage, right? Did the Pats do much of this last year with Rodney? Cause I remember watching the ESPN highlights to the Divisional game against JAX, and I think it was Salisbury or Schlereth who pointed out that Harrison was in robber coverage, and the Pats hadn't shown that all year. Obviously ESPN isn't a great source of analysis, but I just thought I'd ask.

At least, those were my impressions on the night.

EDIT: should note again these are just my impressions... I don't yet have a recording I can rewatch, may not get it either, we'll see

I'm much less of an expert that you, but I'm pretty sure I saw some Cover 2 last night as well. Both safeties were playing deep halves, and the CBs were pressing the receivers (not sure if they were in man or zone). I also saw all 4 DBs play quarters, with all 4 LBs playing the underneath zones (almost positive I saw this on the first drive where Geiese threw a 3 yard dumpoff to Dunn on a 1st and 10 from the NE 22.)

 

[unoriginal]

When the CB jams and the safeties roll to that side isn't it known as 'cloud' coverage? And referring to the first coverage you diagrammed (with the safety in the flat), isn't that known as "sky."

Pretty much. Cloud and Sky are common terms for types of pass coverages, but in a general sense they are more common as terms for run force. As you noted, sky is when the safety is in the flat, so the safety has outside contain on runs. Cloud is when the corner has outside contain.

Related but slightly different concepts. If you are blitzing, say, you may have no one covering the flat, and a safety deep. In that case, even those the safety is deep, that side may be considered to have sky force (or no force, depends on the defense).

The reason you have those names is for the linebackers, who are run first players, so they know who is their help on the outside. Run pursuit is different when you have a corner containing than if you have a safety containing.

...

As for the rest, I dunno. I remember Garrard having a soundbite about our newfangled robber coverage, but the TV angles are too poor most of the time to get a good look at coverage most plays, or from game to game.

Like you, I recall many plays where corners were playing tough, but I thought the majority were one side or the other.

 

[NEPatriot]

The game was horrible. Without TB, pats O sucks. Pats D played a little bit better on second half. Time is running out. If we don't improve, we can forget about SB game now.

 

[PatsSox363804]

We don't game plan in the pre-season, and we've looked worse than that with better talent on the field (2004 vs the Bengals, 2005 vs the Saints, etc.) Not going to worry unless KC marches down the field on us week one.

 

[everlong]

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=27192&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2004&week=PRE2

 

[BradyManny]

So I rewatched the first few series for squeaks and gigs and here were a few of my amatuerish observations:

1) Meriweather injured on the play before he pulls up: Big Sey landed on him while he was tackling Dunn. He then waves to the training staff to take him out and they do on the next play. This might be a wild inference, but it tells me its not something like a torn ACL or ruptured Achilles, but a sprained ankle or bruised something. I could be wrong, but I have the feeling that muscle injuries - which ultimately are the more likely to end a season - have more immediate reactions and aren't the "oh, I can try and play through this" type.

2) Mayo did better than I thought on the initial viewing: There was a play or two where he either seemed to commit too soon or too late, but physically, he was handling the big guards pretty well, and was able to shake them off and make tackles. To my eyes, better than his more experienced ILB mate seemed to do. IE, I noticed Bruschi on the bottom of a pile, having been taken out of the run play that went for a gain. If only Mayo can pick up Bruschi's instincts, he's already physically fast and close to strong enough to play the position.

3) The apparent physical domination of the TB O-Line was pretty misleading: TB was running 2 TEs set, sometimes with a FB - we're talking about 7 or 8 potential run blockers on every play. The Pats rarely brought up a safety, I saw Spann up there once, but didn't notice him again, and seemed content to face TB's power packages with their regular front 7. And to be honest that first drive wasn't as bad as it looked - the line really only got beat on a couple of those runs. Sure, Wilfork didn't have his best day and was not absorbing two blockers as we have become accustomed, but I get the feeling, if this was a regular season game, you'd see Rodney in there coming up into the box to help out the run. In an exhibition, looked like Belichick was content on seeing on the front 7 fared without worrying about scheme.

In particular to that first drive, on replay, it really didn't look as bad as it seemed originally. The runs were not huge, and all it would've taken was one 3rd down stop to get off the field, ie, the short 3rd down pass in Fernando Bryant's direction that he (incorrectly) seemed adamant had hit the ground. He had good coverage, and that could've easily turned incomplete, they get off the field, and the fan base goes on its merry way.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

I looked high and low for this thread LOL. Seriously,I was STUNNED by what I saw Sunday night, I really didn't know what to think but I knew there was more to it than first met the eye. At least I hoped there was So I decided to find Box's thread (check), then watch the replay when it airs.

Great stuff Box and everyone!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I looked high and low for this thread LOL. Seriously,I was STUNNED by what I saw Sunday night, I really didn't know what to think but I knew there was more to it than first met the eye. At least I hoped there was So I decided to find Box's thread (check), then watch the replay when it airs.

Great stuff Box and everyone!

Actually, your going to have to be my Matt Cassel and come off the bench; I'm closing on my new home in about 15 hours and the past 48 or so have been just a wee bit hectic as a prelude to the real fun!

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Box and Unoriginal, great stuff as usual. Threads like this is why I keep coming back here.

 

[BritPat]

B_O_R, don't suppose you have any plans to break down any more plays from that game do you? Looked at the thread on Patriots Planet, but there's little else on there.

If not, no worries

 

[BritPat]

Something I have just noticed about Sundays game - when it looked like Cassel had thrown that INT (before it turned out the DB had dropped the ball), Welker comes from nowhere with a tackle that Rodney would have been proud of

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

B_O_R, don't suppose you have any plans to break down any more plays from that game do you? Looked at the thread on Patriots Planet, but there's little else on there.

If not, no worries

Sorry BP, I just won't have the time, the new home needs some handicap modifications before I can move the parents in. It's well after 1 a.m. and I'm still on an adrenaline high from getting one corner of my garage cleaned out and transferred to the new place. Too much fun!

 

[BritPat]

Sorry BP, I just won't have the time, the new home needs some handicap modifications before I can move the parents in. It's well after 1 a.m. and I'm still on an adrenaline high from getting one corner of my garage cleaned out and transferred to the new place. Too much fun!

Not a problem fella, much appreciated either way