Patriots Training Camp 8/06/15

[Concussion Protocol]

Wish we knew more about the RBs, specifically third-down. I know it's hard to really evaluate that position right now but I want to know!!! I think it's great that Gray is still looking good, I think he will pair well with Blount this year. Otherwise I have seen a few different guys say the different 3DRB's have "flashed"... but not much to go off of. Can't wait to see their blitz pickup. IMO Cadet has a chance to make the team even if he doesn't win the job, because he can do many things: RB, KR, working on both punt and kick coverage teams, and can also be a reserve WR or be used in special packages.

Gray looks like he's even stockier this year, if that's possible. He's like a chiseled Jerome Bettis. I really liked the way he ran last year. It seems like he lacks Blount's wiggle in space, but he definitely has the whole "pad level" thing going for him. 2 power backs with very different styles.

 

[Nunchucks]

I am thinking that Wilson is going to make the team and maybe even start.

 

[turkeyneck]

Gray looks like he's even stockier this year, if that's possible. He's like a chiseled Jerome Bettis. I really liked the way he ran last year. It seems like he lacks Blount's wiggle in space, but he definitely has the whole "pad level" thing going for him. 2 power backs with very different styles.

I'd love to see a strategy of using Gray early to grind the defense and Blount late, after the defense has gotten arm and leg weary from Gray's pounding. When the tackling starts to get half-hearted that's when a fresh Blount can hit the homeruns.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I've seen the stuff from observers and writers. What I'm interested in, and haven't seen, is the quotes you cite from players and coaches that he could be starting by game #1. That is far more meaningful than anything any observer or writer says, and in fact is out of character for the team , which is part of what makes it so remarkable.

I never quoted anyone. I never said he would be a Day 1 starter. I never said it came from the coaching staff. What I did say is that the people who have watched him have been very impressed and some observers feel he could be a Day 1 starter. So it would appear that we're getting hung up on semantics a bit since New England's roster moves are always fluid. The guys who appear on the field to start a game may not be the guys on the field as the game goes on. They have so many packages and different ways to use players. So sorry if my post implied more than that.

Richards has apparently been impressive, but I think you may have exaggerated when saying some think he can be the opening day starter. Even if that is true, it hasn't been indicated in any of the reports I've seen.

Again, I've read reports where observers have him penciled in as the starter next to McCourty. Is this gospel? No. Is it written in stone that this will happen? No. I was merely expressing what I have read. I never quoted anyone or even expressed my own opinion. What I expressed was excitement to read that a young player in a position of need (somewhat) is doing well early in camp. That's all.

Nonetheless, I respect both of you and your responses (no sarcasm).

 

[PatsBoy12]

There's been quite a few positive remarks about Easley since he came off PUP.



Why? Obviously you'd rather the entire team be healthy, but LaFell has a proven connection with Brady that doesn't appear threatened in any way by the time off. Maybe it he misses the entire camp it might be worth worrying about, but we're still a week away from the first preseason game.

Thanks again for your response. Of course I want the team to be healthy. However, I stated what I did about LaFell because he became one of my favorite players in the league last season. He is a complete receiver. His injury is more significant to me as a fan of his than someone lesser, like Darius Fleming or someone like that. He means more to me as a player, and I would think he also means more to the team because he has more responsibility and is a higher profile.

Glad you read more positive things about Easley. I haven't. That was my post. Just like you said you have not seen what I wrote about Richards. We obviously have not read all the same articles and there's nothing wrong with that. You are one of the few, and I say this as respectfully as I can because I don't know you, that seem to have an issue with almost everything I post. Dude, put me on ignore and you never have to see my comments unless someone quotes it. That's it. I have nothing against you at all, though. So peace to you and enjoy the upcoming season.

 

[BTTA]

I never said it came from the coaching staff.

Actually, you did:

Richards' intelligence continues to wow the coaches, players and onlookers. They say he could be the starter come game one of the season.

But I understand now that you were only referring to onlookers with the word "they." I was simply looking for (hoping for) something more substantial, for the reasons I gave.

No harm, no foul.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Actually, you did:



But I understand now that you were only referring to onlookers with the word "they." I was simply looking for (hoping for) something more substantial, for the reasons I gave.

No harm, no foul.

Exactly. So, only in the interest of defending myself (not flaming you), I repeat that I NEVER said the coaches said it. I have read zero quotes from any of the coaches regarding anyone as a gameday starter. I don't even know if I have ever seen this other than when he was asked about who would start the 2001 SB. lol

But again, I respect your post in response. I understand where you were and are coming from on the topic. We both want the same things for the team.

 

[tasmlab]

--


I disagree. the value of a guy who can get a first down or clutch play when everyone else is covered is much greater than some mathematical average. Look at Faulk's contribution over the years. there's also the draw play.

It's all about spreading the defense or catching it off guard.

This is what I was thinking. I would think there was value on the potential THREAT of the RB catching a pass when he's back there, further giving the defense another thing to worry about even if the RB ends up running or blocking.

 

[The Gr8est]

Way too early draft grade based on what we know so far. This is not based on position but how good i think the players are.

Brown - A (as advertised)
Richards - A- (surprisingly this is looking like a good pick... You could have gotten him later i think but he is playing above his draft selection it looks like
Grissom - B- (some good things but a lot left to see)
Flowers - B (some good things... more consistent than Grissom)
Jackson -A (home run pick)
Mason - B (Early and a lot will depend on how he improves)
Cardona - B- (not a big impact spot but he looks ready to go and does upgrade the team)
Wells - D (a few okay things but no impact looks like... I think he is probably cut)
Derby - D (injured and did not do much before the injury to get me excited)
Roberts - B- (Showed flashes and is athletic but rare and competing for a spot)
****son - F (have heard almost nothing about him)

I think we will have 8 draft picks make this roster either as part of the day 1 53 or later in the season and contribute for years to come.

This is looking like a pretty good draft. You are lucky usually if 4 people work out and have any decent size impact.

I think you are under valuing Cardona if he turns out as good as advertised.

He could potentially be an A+, and we know how much BB values ST.

 

[BlueThunder]

On the Cardona issue, I haven't been to TC yet....hope I can make it there shortly,( if it's still OTP) but how is Cardona on blocking after the snap? Anyone ??

I have seen his rocket snap to punter/FG kicker on video..

Thanks in advance ..

 

[supafly]

--


I disagree. the value of a guy who can get a first down or clutch play when everyone else is covered is much greater than some mathematical average. Look at Faulk's contribution over the years. there's also the draw play.

It's all about spreading the defense or catching it off guard.

Well, it certainly wasn't worth the money that was given to Vereen and to me, aside from Akeem Ayers, Vereen's departure was the easiest to predict.

I'm not disputing the idea of the importance of a third down back, as much as I'm reminding others that we've gotten by without a lot of catches before, and that we may spread that RB reception production around from more than just one guy this year.

 

[JMC00]

In regards to the 3rd Down RB

Remember when Faulk went down and people were complaining about a jests castoff being the 3rd down back?

Or when Woodhead was let go and Vereen hadn't proved anything and seemed injury prone?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think you are under valuing Cardona if he turns out as good as advertised.

He could potentially be an A+, and we know how much BB values ST.

The best way to analyze the Cardona pick is that you never hear his name. Ever.

 

[jah]

In regards to the 3rd Down RB

Remember when Faulk went down and people were complaining about a jests castoff being the 3rd down back?

Or when Woodhead was let go and Vereen hadn't proved anything and seemed injury prone?

Vereen definitely had the "glass" label before 2013, but I don't know how many people really doubted his skills.

I'll give you Woodhead, although I remember a lot of us here were excited when we got him and knew that he was underutilized in New Jersey.

I don't see an injury-prone, yet talented player like Vereen in this role. White would be the closest comparison even though he's done his best to downplay his talent every time he takes the field.

Cadet does draw some parallels with Woodhead, but unlike Woodhead, he looks to have absolutely no running ability (3.4 ypc).

Dion Lewis has always seemed pretty talented but he's had a pretty long career of getting cut and traded for nothing.

I think Bolden could end up winning the third down back role by default, and he might not even be that bad.

To summarize, I think there are reasons to be optimistic about this position, but not as many reasons as we've had in the past.

 

[BobDigital]

I think you are under valuing Cardona if he turns out as good as advertised.

He could potentially be an A+, and we know how much BB values ST.

Cardona could be the best long snapper of all time and he would not get an +A from me. I think no matter how good he is it is generally bad value to draft a LS at any point in the draft.

I know I said it is not based on position in my post but LS is the lone exception. I might give a punter or kicker an A but never a long snapper.

 

[Galeb]

Cardona could be the best long snapper of all time and he would not get an +A from me. I think no matter how good he is it is generally bad value to draft a LS at any point in the draft.

I know I said it is not based on position in my post but LS is the lone exception. I might give a punter or kicker an A but never a long snapper.

I would trade a 5th round pick for zero botched snaps and no blocked punts for 5 years.

 

[RayClay]

Well, it certainly wasn't worth the money that was given to Vereen and to me, aside from Akeem Ayers, Vereen's departure was the easiest to predict.

I'm not disputing the idea of the importance of a third down back, as much as I'm reminding others that we've gotten by without a lot of catches before, and that we may spread that RB reception production around from more than just one guy this year.

The position doesn't have value, because there are a lot of undersized RBs who can catch and help in the return game. Same reason i tried to calm people that were losing their minds about losing welker-now we have 2 replacements.

However, given there's plenty of small RB/receivers, that's no excuse to not have a good one for Brady to use as a safety valve.

 

[Oswlek]

I would trade a 5th round pick for zero botched snaps and no blocked punts for 5 years.

Plus the fact that, less than a 5th round investment and it was likely that the Navy wouldn't allow him to play football. If you feel the guy is draft-worthy, and a 6th or 7th may not be enough to convince the Navy to let him out of his commitment, is bumping up to a 5th really that outlandish?

 

[Oswlek]

Cadet does draw some parallels with Woodhead, but unlike Woodhead, he looks to have absolutely no running ability (3.4 ypc).

Dion Lewis has always seemed pretty talented but he's had a pretty long career of getting cut and traded for nothing.

FWIW, I broke down the numbers a while back and it may be helpful to know that

A) that 3.4 ypc suffers from small sample size and
B) it is still superior to what Vereen did after week five last year, by a healthy margin.

I wouldn't read anything into Cadet's rushing history.

Also, Dion Lewis may have been cut a couple more times than Woodhead, but I feel like your post overstates (perhaps unintentionally) the gap between the two. I suspect that, if it weren't for Hard Knocks, Lewis would actually appear to be the more impressive of the two at the time of acquisition.

I'm really not worried about the receiving back position. It seems highly probable one will be OK and, as you say, Bolden is a reasonable emergency option.

 

[jah]

FWIW, I broke down the numbers a while back and it may be helpful to know that

A) that 3.4 ypc suffers from small sample size and
B) it is still superior to what Vereen did after week five last year, by a healthy margin.

I wouldn't read anything into Cadet's rushing history.

Also, Dion Lewis may have been cut a couple more times than Woodhead, but I feel like your post overstates (perhaps unintentionally) the gap between the two. I suspect that, if it weren't for Hard Knocks, Lewis would actually appear to be the more impressive of the two at the time of acquisition.

I'm really not worried about the receiving back position. It seems highly probable one will be OK and, as you say, Bolden is a reasonable emergency option.

I think you've sold me on not writing off Cadet's rushing ability. I was originally tempted to mention the small sample size myself, actually. I don't disagree that Lewis was a better prospect in 2011 (he came into the league after we signed Woodhead), but by now he's on his fourth team in 5 years and it looks like he's usually only been on a roster during offseasons. He had good OTA reports and by all accounts I've read, he's doing just as well as the competition, so don't get me wrong. And I'm not really worried about the position, if at all. I'm just not excited about it either.