Patriots offered Mankins Top 3 Guard Pay

[Christopher Patriot]

Mankins for a second, or respective player.
I'd still love to see him traded for a pass rusher,but it looks more and more like it will be another pick.
My question is how does Brady feel about it?
If he was overly concerned I'd think he'd make sure Mankins was there.

 

[ahmed]

What you wrote doesn't.

What he said does :

"After the 2008 season, me and my agent approached the Patriots about an extension and I was told that Mr. Kraft did not want to do an extension because of the [uncertain collective bargaining agreement]," Mankins said. "I was asked to play '09 out, and that they would address the contract during the uncapped year. I'm a team player, I took them at their word, and I felt I played out an undervalued contract.

"That's the big thing," he continued. "Right now, this is about principle with me and keeping your word and how you treat people. This is what I thought the foundation of the Patriots was built on. Apparently, I was wrong. Growing up, I was taught a man's word is his bond. Obviously this isn't the case with the Patriots."

How is offering him top three money at his position not "addressing the contract" ?

I guess he may have interpreted it as the new contract kicking in immediately, whatever, again he has the right to say no. But to claim the Patriots (Krafts) don't keep their word after being offered that kind of money is really, really bad. Just say the offer wasn't good enough.

Don't take this the wrong way but were you present for their conversation or for their contract negotiations? Nothing we know is for certain.

'I guess he may have interpreted it as the new contract kicking in immediately': what do you mean by this?

 

[Miguel]

According to the Boston Globe:

Extra Points - New England Patriots News and Analysis - Boston.com

Mankins was offered a contract that would make him the third highest paid guard in the NFL, including all of the appropriate guarantees and bonuses according to Breer.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Top Ten Guards and Centers

That would mean that Mankins was offered a 6-year contract that averaged more than $7.1 million.

The media (it may have been Breer) said that the Patriots offered Mankins a 5-year $35 million deal. If you add the $3,268,000 RFA tender to $35 million you get $38.268 million. Divide $38.628 million by 6 years and you get an average of $6,438,000, which is probably Top 10 money. I do not see how that is Top 3 money.

 

[ahmed]

Exactly. It sounds like the team proposed to use the RFA season as a launching point for a 5 year extension. As long as the guaranteed money is in line, all that does is allow each side to spin the deal the way that works for them and make the cap hits more manageable. Same thing they did with Seymour when they extended him with 1 year left on his rookie deal. He got $6M in signing bonus and the following year an $18M option bonus that was guaranteed. Allowed the team to treat it for cap purposes as a 4 year $32M deal. Allowed Seymour's agent to spin it as a 3 year $30M in new money deal with $24M or so guaranteed. Win-win.

Mankins is getting really lousy advice from his agent, who happens to be Vincent Jackson's agent too. Two of the remaining three holdouts...interesting. Love how he characterizes the player as lost, then adds the comments about the team being old school but things can change... Don't hold your breath Frank.

If I am not wrong and I remember it correctly, the last year of Seymour's contract was part of his original rookie contract while Mankins fulfilled that and they want to extend him on the RFA contract... quite a big difference.

 

[crowell33]

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Top Ten Guards and Centers

That would mean that Mankins was offered a 6-year contract that averaged more than $7.1 million.

The media (it may have been Breer) said that the Patriots offered Mankins a 5-year $35 million deal. If you add the $3,268,000 RFA tender to $35 million you get $38.268 million. Divide $38.628 million by 6 years and you get an average of $6,438,000, which is probably Top 10 money. I do not see how that is Top 3 money.

Just quoting the article.

 

[BelichickFan]

Don't take this the wrong way but were you present for their conversation or for their contract negotiations? Nothing we know is for certain.

Well no sh!t. But unless the Patriots promised to make him the highest paid player at his position, and there's no way they would do that, the offer is appropriate. Top three for his position and that's not keeping their word ? No, I don't know exactly what their word was but anyone who pays attention to the Patriots knows that "top at your position" wasn't promised whether they were there or not.

'I guess he may have interpreted it as the new contract kicking in immediately': what do you mean by this?

My guess to what the problem is is that Mankins wants the new contract starting this year but the Patriots, while guaranteeing plenty of the new contract, wanted him to play out the $3+M RFA tender before the new deal kicked in. If that's the problem then Mankins is fine to decline if he sees fit but not to start calling the Krafts liars.

 

[BelichickFan]

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Top Ten Guards and Centers

That would mean that Mankins was offered a 6-year contract that averaged more than $7.1 million.

The media (it may have been Breer) said that the Patriots offered Mankins a 5-year $35 million deal. If you add the $3,268,000 RFA tender to $35 million you get $38.268 million. Divide $38.628 million by 6 years and you get an average of $6,438,000, which is probably Top 10 money. I do not see how that is Top 3 money.

The Patriots probably consider the 2010 RFA amount to be part of the previous contract, not the new one, and, therefore, don't count it. Again, that's reason for turning it down but not for the wording used.

 

[ahmed]

Well no sh!t. But unless the Patriots promised to make him the highest paid player at his position, and there's no way they would do that, the offer is appropriate. Top three for his position and that's not keeping their word ? No, I don't know exactly what their word was but anyone who pays attention to the Patriots knows that "top at your position" wasn't promised whether they were there or not.


My guess to what the problem is is that Mankins wants the new contract starting this year but the Patriots, while guaranteeing plenty of the new contract, wanted him to play out the $3+M RFA tender before the new deal kicked in. If that's the problem then Mankins is fine to decline if he sees fit but not to start calling the Krafts liars.

That changes everything does it not? 3M for one year brings down the average down and is no longer the 'Top 3' that is being quoted is it? Refer to Miguel's post above.

 

[ahmed]

The Patriots probably consider the 2010 RFA amount to be part of the previous contract, not the new one, and, therefore, don't count it. Again, that's reason for turning it down but not for the wording used.

Do you really think the Patriots told him... play this year and next year due to the lockout, we'll have you sign the RFA and then extend the deal from there and Mankins said sure no problem?

 

[BelichickFan]

That changes everything does it not? 3M for one year brings down the average down and is no longer the 'Top 3' that is being quoted is it? Refer to Miguel's post above.

I know, I get it, I referred to it before. Whether 2010 would belong to the old contract, the new one or be some bastard year in between is debatable. And if it causes Mankins to turn down the offer then so be it. That doesn't change that the Patriots made a valiant attempt to "address the contract". Again, turn it down if you don't like it. But don't cry in the corner like a little girl because the Patriots were mean. The Patriots addressed the contract, they held true to their word. It wasn't good enough, say that, don't sob because it's not exactly what you wanted.

 

[BelichickFan]

Do you really think the Patriots told him... play this year and next year due to the lockout, we'll have you sign the RFA and then extend the deal from there and Mankins said sure no problem?

According to Mankins the Patriots said they'd "address the contract". That's all we know. It seems like they did but not to his satisfaction. So he started name calling.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Top Ten Guards and Centers

That would mean that Mankins was offered a 6-year contract that averaged more than $7.1 million.

The media (it may have been Breer) said that the Patriots offered Mankins a 5-year $35 million deal. If you add the $3,268,000 RFA tender to $35 million you get $38.268 million. Divide $38.628 million by 6 years and you get an average of $6,438,000, which is probably Top 10 money. I do not see how that is Top 3 money.

THANK YOU!!!!

The media spin going on with Mankins right now, reminds me of the same racket the Red Sox have going in with the media in demonizing Nomar, Pedro, Manny, Jason Bay, or any other player they want to start a smear campaign for.

 

[ahmed]

According to Mankins the Patriots said they'd "address the contract". That's all we know. It seems like they did but not to his satisfaction. So he started name calling.

And maybe, just maybe, they told him they would offer him a brand new contract when his rookie deal is out the next year and then threw the RFA year in his face or never mentioned it before or something? Mankins has never been anything but a team player and that is why I find it hard to believe that he's just sobbing or crying.

And as far as I know, the Patriots did not contradict anything he said or did they? I honestly do not know that part but to me it is telling if they did not.

 

[BelichickFan]

And maybe, just maybe, they told him they would offer him a brand new contract when his rookie deal is out the next year and then threw the RFA year in his face or never mentioned it before or something? Mankins has never been anything but a team player and that is why I find it hard to believe that he's just sobbing or crying.

And as far as I know, the Patriots did not contradict anything he said or did they? I honestly do not know that part but to me it is telling if they did not.

I'm guessing that it was left unsaid, that Mankins thought "addressing the situation in 2010" meant the new deal would kick in this year and the Patriots meant he'd get the extension with guaranteed money but it wouldn't kick in until next year. I'd be shocked if the Patriots flat out lied. I admit I don't know but a legitimate misunderstanding on the issue makes sense. But Mankins ended it incorrectly IMO.

Regardless, he's a commodity and I hope we trade him rather than taking the comp pick.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Top Ten Guards and Centers

That would mean that Mankins was offered a 6-year contract that averaged more than $7.1 million.

The media (it may have been Breer) said that the Patriots offered Mankins a 5-year $35 million deal. If you add the $3,268,000 RFA tender to $35 million you get $38.268 million. Divide $38.628 million by 6 years and you get an average of $6,438,000, which is probably Top 10 money. I do not see how that is Top 3 money.

My guess would be looking at a measure other than the AAV...which of course is the most meaningless. Could be guaranteed money, guaranteed percentage, first three take...you know that.

 

[ahmed]

I wouldn't mind trading him because I would rather spend the 6-7 million (I am not saying he's not worth and I am sure some team will give it to him) a year on a tackle or WR or LB or something as long as his replacement will not mess up the OL which is the big question mark.

 

[BelichickFan]

I wouldn't mind trading him because I would rather spend the 6-7 million (I am not saying he's not worth and I am sure some team will give it to him) a year on a tackle or WR or LB or something as long as his replacement will not mess up the OL which is the big question mark.

A DE, RB or OL would work for me. Anything to get some value from the player.

I know it's a pipe dream but Mankins and Maroney for Stephen Jackson would be really good for both teams IMO. It would help us dramatically but the Rams would get a viable RB with less wear and tear plus a pro bowl Guard to go with the two tackles they drafted high the past two years.

 

[DefenseRules]

This agent is sure spending a lot of time talking to the media. Won't get him anywhere with this team. He should know that. It didn't work well for other agents.

 

[Water Boy]

If I were a GM building a team under the salary cap, I would feel real uneasy about spending $7 Million plus a year for an offensive guard.

 

[ahmed]

If I were a GM building a team under the salary cap, I would feel real uneasy about spending $7 Million plus a year for an offensive guard.

No question, I would not even consider it really especially with the new cap being probably lower than it currently is.