Patriots Defensive Deficiencies

[Brownfan80]

I agree that Hobbs had pretty good coverage on this one, but I don't fault Wilson either. It was 3rd and 1 and the Pats had 8 in the box on that play. Harrison was up near the line of scrimmage meaning Wilson was probably playing deep middle--there was no way he was going to get over in time. Props to Plummer, he made a great read and an even better throw.

Anyway, there has been a lot of (deserved) Wilson-bashing recently, but I thought he played pretty well last week before he got hurt. Given how horrible Sanders looked we really need him in there.

True, and with how they were gashing our run D I can't really blame the Ss for biting on PA.

I'm hoping that if Wilson can't play, then Hawkins can. If we're stuck with Sanders against Cincy we're effed.

 

[shakadave]

SuberBowl 39 our starting secondary was CB: Samuels/Gay Safety: Harrison/Geno

How do you feel they are not going to get the job done? Because they had 4 bad plays in 3 games?

Hobbs is an upgrade over Gay, Samuels has two more years under his belt. The only place the secondary took a step back is with Rodney because of his injury and I am not ready to say that yet because it will take a little time for him to get back to his old self if it is possible. We also have upgraded our Nickel and Dime packages as well with Hawkins and Scott.

You are using selective memory when making this statement, IMO.

But Hawkins in injured. Gay is out for the year. Hobbs is injured. Wilson is injured. 4 out of our top 6 DBs are injured. My calendar says 2005.

 

[mgcolby]

Hawkins and Wilson are practicing and listed as questionable. Hobbs is the only one not practicing and he finished the game last week which makes me think he will play Sunday. It doesn't look anything like 04 or 05, yet.

 

[cstjohn17]

Honestly, how good? I have watched several Jags, Steelers, Ravens and Chargers games this year and I wished our team hit like theirs. I just don't think we intimidate anyone. Everyone on our team has become so nice. Tedy was in this week's Parade magazine with his wife. Nobody spoke of getting revenge against Denver last week. Do you ever see one of our defenders chew out another for a lame ass tackle attempt? Do you think we'll have one shut out this year? Do you think we'll finish in the top 10 in total defense or points given up?

I think you can throw Denver's D into that mix, the played great against the Pats. I don't think the Patriots will be in the top 12 in points against which used to be one of their hallmarks and we may not have the offense to pick up the slack.

I don't think the D has been great by any stretch but they were hung out to dry by the offense on Sunday. I thought there was a lot of intensity from the D line. It looked like Denver just wore the Pats defense down and beat us at our game. The Broncos were more prepared, executed better and were better coached. They played field position and limited mistakes and walked out with a tough win on the road. I don't see this as a dominant D like in 2003 & 2004, it will take a balanced effort (offense, defense & special teams) to win games. We are not strong enough in any one area to have one of the units have an off night. This makes the margin for error razor thin (pun intended). Looking at it realistically we have two main weaknesses on defense, sometimes these warts can be hidden sometimes they can't:
1) an old, slow set of inside LB
- showed on many of T. Bell's runs, the most obvious example was on a 3rd and 9 in the 1st quarter, Plummer got flushed out of the pocket and ran for about 11 yards without getting touched, the closest Patriot was Seau who was at least 10 yards away, that was truly pathetic
2) an average secondary
- except for the 2 big plays the Pats were able to hide this
- Hobbs beat by a larger receiver, Samuels & Sanders... we all know that one

 

[SVN]

We have Colvin, Vrabel, Green, and TBC, the team isn't that slow; however, I'd be happier if they dropped Bruschi and Seau more and rushed them less often.

agree but look at the pitt defense last sunday...they really frustrated palmer as much due to the speed as much as the scheme and pitt plays a 3-4 as well...i always felt out D was slower on the field -not ability wise-than most good defenses...

 

[captain stone]

Football fib: New England’s big problems lie with the offense.

Daddy’s pigskin wisdom: The Patriots' offense certainly isn’t going to win any beauty pageants this season. But the team’s defensive futility has quietly flown under the radar. New England ranks 26th in defensive passer rating (94.0), 28th in third-down conversion percentage (opponents have converted 46.7 percent of their attempts) and dead last with just one takeaway in three games. The defensive passer rating figure is especially dreadful considering the quarterbacks the Patriots have faced so far this season – the jittery J.P. Losman, the glass-shouldered Chad Pennington and the erratic Jake Plummer, who was on the proverbial hot seat before shredding the inept New England pass defense for 256 yards and two back-breaking TDs.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1026

Here's another cold, hard football fact: our back 8 (LBs and DBs) have no drafted talent at the backup/future starter positions, and only 2 - TBC and Sanders - who were drafted at all.

Does any team have a worse group of backup LBs than we do? If so, please let me know; it would make me feel better. Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel and Colvin are on the field for every snap; the longer the game, and the season, progresses, the more tired they become, and the less pressure they can generate.

 

[Miguel]

Tidbits that may add to this discussion.

Did the Patriots defense really play in the 2nd half of the 2005 season??

Or did they just play lousy offenses???

Two games against the Dolphins who finished 16th in scoring
Saints who finished 31st
lost to the Chiefs who finished 6th in scoring
Two games against the Jets who finished 29th in scoring
The Bills who finished 24th
The Bucs who finished 20th
The Jags who finished 12th
Lost to the Broncos who finished 7th

When was the last time the Pats shut down a high-powered offense??

 

[cstjohn17]

Tidbits that may add to this discussion.

Did the Patriots defense really play in the 2nd half of the 2005 season??

Or did they just play lousy offenses???

Two games against the Dolphins who finished 16th in scoring
Saints who finished 31st
lost to the Chiefs who finished 6th in scoring
Two games against the Jets who finished 29th in scoring
The Bills who finished 24th
The Bucs who finished 20th
The Jags who finished 12th
Lost to the Broncos who finished 7th

When was the last time the Pats shut down a high-powered offense??

I did a similar analysis in the summer... my opinion, the Pats were ranked 31st in pass defense for a reason, the combination of no consistent pressure and an average secondary sets the stage for teams being able to pass the ball. I had hopes this year would be better but really no moves were bad to improve the secondary or pass rush. We should be better than 31 but top 15 would be a reach.

full post is here --> http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=127913&postcount=17


This gave me an excuse to break down last years stats in more detail. The breakdown compare the number of points allowed and pass yards allowed against three variables:
- First half schedule versus second half of the season
- Against teams with winning records versus losing records
- Against quarterbacks of various levels (Excellent, Good, Average & Crap)

The full data is in the attached .pdf

Pass yards allowed Average points allowed
Schedule
1st half 254.75 28.13
2nd half 237.38 14.75


Opponents record
winning record 257.6 25.4
losing record 226.8 14.83

Quarterback rating
Excellent 321 40
Good 241 31.3
Average 267 19.6
Crap 188 13

Full Data
Game Team Opp. Record Pass yards QB Schedule Points QB Rating
1 OAK Loser 265.00 Collins 1st half 20 Average
2 CAR Winner 154.00 Delhome 1st half 27 Good
3 PIT Winner 216.00 Roeth. 1st half 20 Average
4 SD Winner 248.00 Brees 1st half 41 Good
5 ATL Winner 298.00 Shaub 1st half 28 Average
6 DEN Winner 262.00 Plummer 1st half 28 Average
7 BUF Loser 274.00 Losman 1st half 21 Crap
8 IND Winner 321.00 Manning 1st half 40 Excellent
9 MIA Winner 360.00 Frerotte 2nd half 16 Average
10 NO Loser 343.00 Brooks 2nd half 17 Average
11 KC Winner 323.00 Green 2nd half 26 Good
12 NYJ Loser 135.00 Bollinger 2nd half 3 Crap
13 BUF Loser 181.00 Losman 2nd half 7 Crap
14 TB Winner 155.00 Simms 2nd half 0 Average
15 NYJ Loser 163.00 Bollinger 2nd half 21 Crap
16 MIA Winner 239.00 Frerotte 2nd half 28 Average

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I'm with you gentlemen, the pass D is not good at all. That's why I was hoping for a stud DB in the draft or FA. But the real problem may lie up front where the Pats just don't scare anyone with their pass rush. Supposedly we have all this talent on the D-Line, and while I do understand the 3-4 linemen in general aren't firstly cut out as pass rushers, what I don't undertand is how all this alleged talent in front of Vrabel and Colvin can't mount a more threating attack on a passer?

Could it be the scheme? Oh help me that I bring up a possible fault in BB's defensive genius but something is holding us back. Either that D-line isn't really that hot or D play calling needs some changes. Or is it even worse- the team lacks a fire in their guts?

 

[mgteich]

We have a group of very fine pass-rushers in the front seven. It may indeed be a matter of scheme and game plan. Ask an expert if you wish: try Peyton Manning. He has often detailed how good our front seven can be, along with the best linebackers in the game. Colvin, Bruschi and Vrabel are indeed feared pass-rushers. So are the backups: Banta-Cain and Green. Our front three are less involced, as consequence of the 3-4. However, when we run a 4-3 in certain situations, we free up Seymour.

I believe it is a matter of not trusting the secondary. We could use more pressure and more blitzes, including safety and corner blitzes as we have in the past. But this is now a dangerous strategy. We used to trust guys like Law and OTIS and even Buckley to take care of business when the pressure was applied and the quarterback is rushed. Now we drop Bruschi back in coverage to help.

I'm with you gentlemen, the pass D is not good at all. That's why I was hoping for a stud DB in the draft or FA. But the real problem may lie up front where the Pats just don't scare anyone with their pass rush. Supposedly we have all this talent on the D-Line, and while I do understand the 3-4 linemen in general aren't firstly cut out as pass rushers, what I don't undertand is how all this alleged talent in front of Vrabel and Colvin can't mount a more threating attack on a passer?

Could it be the scheme? Oh help me that I bring up a possible fault in BB's defensive genius but something is holding us back. Either that D-line isn't really that hot or D play calling needs some changes. Or is it even worse- the team lacks a fire in their guts?