The biggest flaw

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by xmarkd400x, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    The biggest flaw with your 2008 Patriots is their pass defense. (Surprising, I know)

    Blame it on the scheme, the pass rush, the injuries, the coverage, or whatever. I'm just relaying the facts from the ColdHardFootballFacts.

    Opposing QBs of the 2008 New England Patriots (through week 13) have compiled this stat sheet:
    225 cmp / 356 att (63.2%) 2,708 yds 7.61 YPA*, 21 TD 12 INT for a 92.1 Passer rating
    (Whole list here: Cold, Hard Football Defensive Passer Rating through Week 13)

    As a reference, that passer rating would be #7 on the career passer rating list (below Montana and above Philip Rivers)
    (Reference: Career Passer Rating Leaders -

    Our own Matt Cassel is having a worse year than opposing QBs are having against our pass defense:
    305 cmp / 442 att (64.0%) 3,052 yds 6.9 YPA* 14 TD 10 INT 85.3 Passer Rating

    *I copied the YPA stats and I do not believe they factor in sacks.
  2. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner In the Starting Line-Up

    I shutter to think about the type of game Warner can potentially have. Thankfully it is in Foxboro. If it were in Arz, it would have been a massacre.
  3. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    The thought of Fitzgerald and Boldin against our pass defense has been keeping me up nights worrying about this game. I can't imagine a worse matchup for the Patriots, I'm just hoping we win a shootout. Maybe one of them will be dinged up next week and will be held out of our game with them since they've clinced the division (and aren't likely looking at a bye anyways).
  4. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb Supporter Supporter

    Unfortunately, we are all well aware of what the fatal flaw is in this team, particularly pass defense on 3rd down.
  5. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    how did we get here?

    - the plan for replacing Asante -- Deltha O'neal, signed days before Game 1
    - no DBs drafted on Day one in 2007, 2006 !!
    - lousy pass rush -- bad luck?? low production due to injuries, age
  6. bradmahn

    bradmahn In the Starting Line-Up

    Let's not forget about Meriweather.

    I'm pretty sure Terrence Wheatley (who started game 8, when, unfortunately, he was lost for the season) and/or Wilhite could be considered plans for replacing Asante. It's pointless to debate, but I think it's pretty clear O'Neal was a stop-gap until the younger corners picked up their own play.

    A lot of injuries to the parts of the defense that were weakest and had the most inexperienced depth (secondary and linebackers) is the predominant reason why they've struggled.
  7. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 Supporter Supporter

    "Massacre?" Yeah. I guess you might be right, but we are talking about an 8--5 team in the weakest division in the league with three other teams that have nine wins among them all year.

    Still, I'm hoping for a game time temp of 19 degrees F, 15 mile/hour winds gusting to 25 and maybe a little sleet or snow, just like they get in Arizona where they close the Dome when the temp drops below 40. Or, as Brewski likes to say "Patriots Weather."
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #12 Jersey

    The top four picks in the last draft were devoted to the defensive back 8. But two of the top vets in the group (Thomas, Harrison) hit IR, as did 2 of the top rooks. And there was a plague of JAG injuries as well.

    Projected starters for next week are a returning All-Pro, last year's top pick, another recent first-rounder, three recent mid-round picks (one of them a rook), and two once-excellent vets returned from the scrap-heap. Top backups are a UDFA rookie and some JAGs.

    I think they botched the Asante negotiation by undervaluing him before he proved himself. But I don't think they've disrespected the needs of the positions.
  9. bakes781

    bakes781 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    Uh oh another negative thread! :eek: Better post while it's still here I suppose! :singing:

    It is incredible that this team is even above .500 with those kinda stats. I guess you could say the schedule has been very favorable. I still think it's one & done in the playoffs unless the offense can really start to resemble 2007 consistently or someone emerges as a consistent pass rusher.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  10. stcjones

    stcjones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    Warner can't pass very well if he IS FLAT ON HIS BACK!!!!.......This is the key for the NE Pats for the remainder of their games....but most importantly against the CAHDinals......BRING THE F'in house on nearly every down........If you get pressure ON ANY QB it obviously takes PRESSURE off of the secondary....How BB and Pees have not figured that out this year is beyond me......We have a weak secondary....starting with Hobbs....who always seems to get left on an island and burned like a piece of charcoal.....WE all know why give the opposing QB all the time in the world to get a throw off against our weak secondary? BLITZ!!! BLITZ!!!.....put a spy or spies on the RB.....but all other D lineman are all in.........I would rather go down that way than
    playing "bend don't break" and let the next Seneca Wallace pick us apart.........GO PATS!
  11. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Even the most casual of fans watching the Patriots does not need statistical analysis to determine the biggest flaw on the Pats is the inability to pressure opposing quarterbacks. However, I differ on my opinion of how we got here.

    Yes, I was disappointed/concerned with the Pats not signing a more well known name to replace Samuel, but the Pats scheme has been based more on the front seven than on the DB's. Deltha O'Neal was never a plan to replace Asante. He was brought in because Fernando Bryant didn't pan out, and Terrence Wheatley went on IR - as did Tank Williams and Rodney Harrison.

    As far as recent day one draft picks, the Pats took Wheatley this year and Meriweather a year ago - and also picked up Wilhite in the 4th round.

    I still do have unanswered questions about the pass rush, despite the multiple threads on the subject. Is it the players (execution) or scheme (designed to cover up the lack of talent in the secondary)? If it's the latter, then I would agree that an occasional blitz - like the one that forced the fumble at the end of the game Sunday - would be preferable to the (lack of) results from the Pats' pass rush this season. Will be interesting to see what happens with Colvin and Seau on board for two full weeks of practice - and game planning - against a very good passing team, the Cardinals.
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae Retired Jersey Club Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    The problem is that it's not just a problem with the secondary. It's also a problem with the linebackers in coverage. Guyton and Mayo may be young and fast, but they are also young and inexperienced, and they are getting beaten in coverage by pretty much any tight end with a pulse. Sending blitzes means that James Sanders, Brandon Meriweather, Deltha O'Neal (Wilhite now), Jerod Mayo AND Gary Guyton have to hold their own in coverage.

    I don't think anyone, including the families of those players, really thinks that everyone of that group can cover in man-to-man for even the first 3 seconds of a blitz.
  13. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

    iam more worried about a rested and crazy oakland team with 2 big backs against our beatup D line than AZ in the snow where leinhart may start to rest warner.
  14. ScottishPatriots

    ScottishPatriots On the Roster

    Hopefully its cold and wet for that one, the last thing we need is a clear warm day.
  15. jbb9s

    jbb9s In the Starting Line-Up

    The thought of Deltha O'neil covering Bolden (or Fitzgerald) is outright frightening!
  16. 37Harrison

    37Harrison 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #37 Jersey

    I know that the guys in the secondary are not going to be mistaken as pro-bowlers at any time however, I again say and believe that the front 7 isn't doing anything to help them and even if Samuel was back there, the result would be much of the same.

    The OP threw out some stats that I don't believe tells the whole story. Out of the entire front 7 only Seymour and AD have been able to crack the top 50 players in the NFL for sacks. Seymour is ranked 19th and AD is ranked 29th. The two most devastating losses to this D is Rodney, because of his play at the line with QB pressures and knockdowns, and obviously AD.

    Not one guy is in the top 50 for tackles for a loss or any other individual stat for that matter (that I saw). With stats like these, QB's are able to pick apart the defense, just like last year. Do we not remember what AJ Feeley did to this team last year? 345 yards and 3 TD's. It was only because he threw 3 INT's did the Pats perfect record stay intact. The D only managed 1 sack in that game and couldn't get to him otherwise.

    The next week Boller threw for 210 yards and 2 TD's and almost beat them, again no pressure was applied on Boller.

    The whole D has been really banged up but the front 7 isn't doing their part to help out. They can't stop the run or get pressure on the QB.
  17. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    I think you may have a great point. While we tend to focus here on the DB or DL, it's the play of those LB affects both - and the only ones that have been scrutinized are Vrabel and Bruschi, while Guyton and Mayo get gold stars on their forehead.
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