Patfans Draft Forum mock thread -Feb 2009

[VJCPatriot]

Trade: Matt Cassel to Minnesota for their 1st and 2nd round picks. #22 and #54.

Trade DOWN: From #22 to # 29. 140 pts. Receive New York Giants 1st and 3rd round picks. #29 and #91. The Giants agree to move up so that they can secure LB James Laurinitis.

1A- #23: Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
1B- #29 (NYG): Larry English OLB Northern Illinois
2A- #47 (SD): James Casey TE Rice
2B- #54 (MN): Connor Barwin DE/TE Cincinatti
2C- #58: Juaquan Iglesias WR Oklahoma
3A- #89: Scott McKillop ILB Pittsburgh
3B- #91 (NYG): Nic Harris SS Alabama
3C- #97 (Comp) Samuel: Rashad Johnson FS Alabama
4A- #124: Kevin Barnes CB Maryland
4B- #136 (Comp) Stallworth: Frantz Joseph ILB Florida Atlantic
5A- #158: Kevin Huber P Cincinatti
5B- #167 (Comp) Gay: Devin Moore RB Wyoming
6- #192: Deon Butler WR Penn State
7- #230: Darryl Richard DT Georgia (Patriots' Mr. Irrelevant)

Some comments on this draft:

I decided to play safe and double up on positions of need such as CB, OLB, and Safety. There's a lot of potential on this draft list but way too many prospects. I think that the Pats in the real draft will deal away some of these picks for future picks because I just can't see 14 rookies making this roster. And if we send em down to the pratice squad and they look good, expect them to get poached, ala Garret Mills et alia.

I actually think that the 7th round pick could be quite interesting. Darryl Richard has nice size for a DT and he was a team captain which shows some leadership qualities. Certainly a pick that can pay off and could make a decent backup if Wright leaves for greener pastures. Seymour might also take him under his wing since they are both Georgia alums.

I considered shocking the world and taking Lesean McCoy with pick #22 but then I wouldn't have gotten an extra 3rd rounder and I also would have missed out on McKillop on the second day. I did not end up drafting an offensive lineman because the big 4 were all rated out of range, although I am expecting at least one of them in the actual draft to drop to the Patriots draft range. Overall I like this draft but I'd like to find out what we actually get for Cassel so I can redo it more accurately. If the Patriots sign a marquee OLB in free agency, I'd probably go ahead and take McCoy and skip out on English. But we'll have to see how that works out first.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Matt Cassel Trade To Detroit for 20th + 2010 future compensation

TRADE: 47th Pick (430 pts.) + 89th Pick (145 pts.) Traded to K.C. for 34th Pick (560 pts.) + Pick 195 (14 pts.)

No arguments with these two.

TRADE: 2010 3rd Round + 2009 6th (192) to Carolina for 93rd Pick

Question: Why do you feel the Patriots would make this trade, which they generally don't do (they're normally the ones trading out, not trading in)? I'm just curious.

4.3- #83 (Comp PHI) S/OLB NIC HARRIS (105)

At one time a potential first rounder. At the senior bowl he played OLB. There is no reason for that. He is a natural leader and plays with emotion. Good hands and hits well. Could be great in the Patriots system of a SS, and play near the line. Room to bulk up on his frame to become a real big hitter. SMART player, and decent in coverage with average speed.

As a not-so-minor point, the Pats don't get PHI's third-rounder; they get a pick (#97) at the end of the third round. [If Harris stays below 97, obviously, it's a moot point.]

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No comp picks, no trades, off the top of my head (in other words, based on names I've heard here):
23 Donald Beatty, OT, UConn or Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
47 James Casey, TE, Rice [yes, I'm as disturbed as you are]
58 Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati
89 Nic Harris, SS, Oklahoma
120 Frantz Joseph, ILB, FAU
151 Sammie Lee Hill, DT, Stillman
186 Hunter Cantwell, QB, Louisville
217 Graham Gano, P, FSU

 

[Richter]

No comp picks, no trades, off the top of my head (in other words, based on names I've heard here):
23 Donald Beatty, OT, UConn or Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
47 James Casey, TE, Rice [yes, I'm as disturbed as you are]
58 Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati
89 Nic Harris, SS, Oklahoma
120 Frantz Joseph, ILB, FAU
151 Sammie Lee Hill, DT, Stillman
186 Hunter Cantwell, QB, Louisville
217 Graham Gano, P, FSU

It's William Beatty, not Donald. Donald Brown is UConn's running back, who's another guy I wouldn't mind picking up later on. Depth and can serve as Faulk's understudy.

 

[dryheat44]

I love Devin Moore and have had him as a 3rd/4th round pick on many of my mocks. I think he would be a great eventual replacement for Kevin Faulk and could be a Darrin Sproles kind of player. I also think we could use him on screens and short passes a lot to free up his open field skills, and have called him a "poor man's Harvin". BUT Walter's football has consistently been giving him tot he Pats in the 2nd round, and I just don't see him being a 2nd round pick right now. He didn't get a combine invite, which was a big mistake, and there are too many other talented players out there. So yes, I'd love to take him, but not at 58 as things stand right now.

I'd much rather take a guy like Curtis Brinkley in the 7th-udfa than take Moore in the second or third round. I don't know why you (not you personally...the royal "you") would take somebody that was clearly in a conference below his talent level that high. Would he be considered such a high pick if he played in the SEC or Big 12? This is where Chris Johnson sets a dangerous precedent...but even he played in a much tougher conference than Moore. It's like taking the best WR in NAIA, and trying to compare him to the NCAA elite.

 

[Clonamery]

Trade: Matt Cassel to Minnesota for their 1st and 2nd round picks. #22 and #54.

Trade DOWN: From #22 to # 29. 140 pts. Receive New York Giants 1st and 3rd round picks. #29 and #91. The Giants agree to move up so that they can secure LB James Laurinitis.

1A- #23: Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
1B- #29 (NYG): Larry English OLB Northern Illinois
2A- #47 (SD): James Casey TE Rice
2B- #54 (MN): Connor Barwin DE/TE Cincinatti
2C- #58: Juaquan Iglesias WR Oklahoma
3A- #89: Scott McKillop ILB Pittsburgh
3B- #91 (NYG): Nic Harris SS Alabama
3C- #97 (Comp) Samuel: Rashad Johnson FS Alabama
4A- #124: Kevin Barnes CB Maryland
4B- #136 (Comp) Stallworth: Frantz Joseph ILB Florida Atlantic
5A- #158: Kevin Huber P Cincinatti
5B- #167 (Comp) Gay: Devin Moore RB Wyoming
6- #192: Deon Butler WR Penn State
7- #230: Darryl Richard DT Georgia (Patriots' Mr. Irrelevant)

Some comments on this draft:

I decided to play safe and double up on positions of need such as CB, OLB, and Safety. There's a lot of potential on this draft list but way too many prospects. I think that the Pats in the real draft will deal away some of these picks for future picks because I just can't see 14 rookies making this roster. And if we send em down to the pratice squad and they look good, expect them to get poached, ala Garret Mills et alia.

I actually think that the 7th round pick could be quite interesting. Darryl Richard has nice size for a DT and he was a team captain which shows some leadership qualities. Certainly a pick that can pay off and could make a decent backup if Wright leaves for greener pastures. Seymour might also take him under his wing since they are both Georgia alums.

I considered shocking the world and taking Lesean McCoy with pick #22 but then I wouldn't have gotten an extra 3rd rounder and I also would have missed out on McKillop on the second day. I did not end up drafting an offensive lineman because the big 4 were all rated out of range, although I am expecting at least one of them in the actual draft to drop to the Patriots draft range. Overall I like this draft but I'd like to find out what we actually get for Cassel so I can redo it more accurately. If the Patriots sign a marquee OLB in free agency, I'd probably go ahead and take McCoy and skip out on English. But we'll have to see how that works out first.

Nic Harris is from Oklahoma. You don't see a need to draft an OL?

 

[Mark Morse]

I think Cassel to Detroit makes alot of sense. Det keeps their 1st overall and selects the top OT. Then they get a solid QB in Cassel for picks #20 and #33.

1A- #20: Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
1B- #23: Clay Matthews LB USC
2A- #33 Max Unger OL Oregon
2B- #54 Louis Delmas FS W Michigan
2C- #58: Connor Barwin LB/TE Cincinatti
3A- #89: Chip Vaughn SS Wake Forest
3B- #97 (Comp) Samuel: Rashad Johnson FS Alabama
4A- #124: Brian Manderville TE Northeastern
5A- #158: Kevin Huber P Cincinatti
5B- #167 (Comp) Gay: Tyrell Sutton RB Nortwestern
6- #192: Kevin Akins CB/LB BC
7- #230: Daryl Richard DT Georgia Tech

 

[VJCPatriot]

Nic Harris is from Oklahoma. You don't see a need to draft an OL?

Correction noted.

An OL would be nice, but I didn't see the value at the spots I was picking. Playing by the rules established on the first page, none of the top 4 tackles were falling early enough to pick 22 or 23. And in round two, I'd rather have a real good tight end prospect like Casey then draft a guard there. I'm also about 90% sure that BB will draft a tight end this year. He's overdue.

 

[aaron spacemuseum]

I'm not sure how it became conventional wisdom that we'll be getting 3 comp picks this year in rounds 3, 4 and 5, but I think people putting too much stock into that now are going to be very disappointed next month. The pick for Asante seems probable since he's a top tier player, but Stallworth and Gay have done nothing remarkable in the last two years (on Pats and on new teams). I really don't see the compensation being valid in either case.

That said, I think Mayoclinic's mock on this thread is pretty much my dream draft -- with the exception of Maybin being the first pick over Sintim or English. I don't know what it is, but I can picture an Authentic Sintim Pats Jersey in the upper righthand corner of patriots.com very vividly.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not sure how it became conventional wisdom that we'll be getting 3 comp picks this year in rounds 3, 4 and 5, but I think people putting too much stock into that now are going to be very disappointed next month. The pick for Asante seems probable since he's a top tier player, but Stallworth and Gay have done nothing remarkable in the last two years (on Pats and on new teams). I really don't see the compensation being valid in either case.

That said, I think Mayoclinic's mock on this thread is pretty much my dream draft -- with the exception of Maybin being the first pick over Sintim or English. I don't know what it is, but I can picture an Authentic Sintim Pats Jersey in the upper righthand corner of patriots.com very vividly.

The compensation is based primarily on Salary. Not on performance. Performance is usually the difference when the salary range is covered by two picks. Only Stallworth is a margin pick and he'll probably be a 5th. That's how its figured. Go look up AdamJT13 and read the past years if you need some evidence to the fact

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I'd much rather take a guy like Curtis Brinkley in the 7th-udfa than take Moore in the second or third round. I don't know why you (not you personally...the royal "you") would take somebody that was clearly in a conference below his talent level that high. Would he be considered such a high pick if he played in the SEC or Big 12? This is where Chris Johnson sets a dangerous precedent...but even he played in a much tougher conference than Moore. It's like taking the best WR in NAIA, and trying to compare him to the NCAA elite.

I was the one who got Mayo on the whole Moore subject. Just like Chris Johnson he was coming from a non BCS conference with blazing speed. Where he was not invited to the combine will hurt his stock. I was looking forward to him running this 40 which would have risen his draft status. Yes with the success of Steve Slaton and Chris Johnson may have had me not thinking strait but I do like this kid and think he will be a factor in the NFL.

 

[Warren94]

ok Let's give this the old college try.

#23 Max Unger C
#47 Paul Kruger De
#58 Connor Barwin LB/TE
#89 Rashard Johnson S
#120 Vance Walker
#151 Ryan Purvis TE
#186 Ellis Lankster CB
#217 Ian Johnson RB

thoughts?

 

[dryheat44]

6.3- #93 (CAR) TE CORNELIUS INGRAM (96)

Would have been the first TE taken this year if he didnt suffer a torn ACL and missing his senior season with the gators. Not an ideal blocker, but good hands and finds holes in the defense well. If healthy during the combine, his stock could rise.

Wait...what? That's a ballsy statement....and not even remotely true. What does Ingram do well? He can't block, can't reliably catch, can't stretch the field....

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. Since I have NFLDraftBlitz open in another window, here's the write-up from a source who seems to be a very charitable grader overall:

He's tough to project to the NFL level because he lacks the size to play tight end, the blocking ability to be an h-back and the top-end speed to play wide receiver. Doesn't appear to be a big fan of contact. Lacks the strength to be overly effective as a blocker. Has been a body catcher in the past.

Maybe the writer bleeds Seminole crimson and gold...but that seems to be my impression too. He's always struck me as a guy who doesn't like football, but is a decent athlete and wants to walk around campus in a uniform to impress women.

 

[patchick]

OK -- now that a bunch of you have done the exercise: Which players did you find yourself carefully structuring your draft around?

I often find that's the most revealing part of doing this kind of mock. It helps you realize which players have the rarest skill sets, which positions have talent range gaps, etc.

 

[bakes781]

Well I personally went from top to bottom. So I never went back and said well I already took a LB in the 1st so I better change that to CB.

But looking back at the rankings there's a significant run on LBs; between 13 to 29 there are 6 LBs listed. In that same span there's not a single OL listed.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

OK -- now that a bunch of you have done the exercise: Which players did you find yourself carefully structuring your draft around?

I often find that's the most revealing part of doing this kind of mock. It helps you realize which players have the rarest skill sets, which positions have talent range gaps, etc.

For all that I finally broke down and declared Barwin my binky, it was Sintim. I would have been happy with either Chung or Delmas or Byrd at S. I wanted Barwin, but he wasn't a BPV without first taking Sintim. Other than Curry, no other player in this draft so obviously looks to open as many options for the defense.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

ok Let's give this the old college try.

#23 Max Unger C
#47 Paul Kruger De
#58 Connor Barwin LB/TE
#89 Rashard Johnson S
#120 Vance Walker
#151 Ryan Purvis TE
#186 Ellis Lankster CB
#217 Ian Johnson RB

thoughts?

Since you asked.

- Unger is okay, but what is your vision for him? Starter?
- Kruger is okay, but what is your vision for him? How is he an improvement on the current OLB prospects on roster?
- Barwin is my binky, but what is your vision for him compared to Kruger, Crable, and Co.?
- Johnson is good.
- Walker, why? His NFL Draft Scout profile describes him as a one-gap DT. They also note he's "too short and lacks the girth to fit some defensive systems." That sounds like he's 180 out for NE's DL profile.
- Purvis is good.
- Lankster is good.
- Johnson is good.

 

[patchick]

For me, I was surprised to find that the big tipping-point decision was about defensive ends. I'd expect one of Sintim, English, Barwin etc. to be around in the 2nd; likewise one of the CBs, OGs and safties. Pick up another 2nd in a Cassel trade, be flexible about trading up with later picks, and you should be in good shape. But at DE it's starting to look like Jackson, Gilbert or bust, and given the number of teams likely in the 3-4 DE market I expect Gilbert to rise very fast.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Right now my guy is Sean Smith, not as a CB, but at FS. I invision him next to Hobbs and Meriweather and covering the tall recievers in the red zone.

But with over 2 moths to go, this could change.

 

[VJCPatriot]

OK -- now that a bunch of you have done the exercise: Which players did you find yourself carefully structuring your draft around?

I often find that's the most revealing part of doing this kind of mock. It helps you realize which players have the rarest skill sets, which positions have talent range gaps, etc.

I'll give you a different take. I don't get married to individual players to "build my draft around". That's because the draft is such a fluid process that you could easily find the player you want taken when you're picking. Then you need to scramble to take your backup guy.

What I will say is this, I like to take the Double Down approach for positions of need. We saw this last year when BB drafted both Wheatley and Wilhite for the CB position. He also took Mayo and Crable as linebackers. In the past he took Thomas and Mills as tightends, etc.

I've tried to reflect this in my recent mock. I doubled down on outside linebackers, inside linebackers, corners, safeties, and even wide receivers. But in reality it's pretty difficult to 'double down' on multiple positions without using a lot of picks so I think at most that will happen to two positions this year, when we see it happen we'll see a clear indicator on what BB thought needed the most improvement/help.

The players that are flexible to play two positions allow you to effectively 'double' down on two positions with just 3 players. Example: Connor Barwin projects to OLB/TE for us. That means by taking English, Barwin, and Casey we've effectively 'double downed' on both outside linebackers and tightends.

I suspect that Box finds Sintim indispensable because he can be projected to either ILB or OLB. This allows a lot of flexibility while drafting as well as creating 'double downs' for positions of perceived need.