PatFanKen Where Art Thou?

[Jlaff]

Good to know I'm not telling you anything new and that you're just ignorant by choice.

Ignorant of what?

 

[VrabelJr]

Ignorant of what?

Re-read my penultimate reply.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let’s just put it this way: every Patriots homer is a genius from 2001-18 in the same sense every investor is a genius in a bull market. The people who noticed the major red flags with the team were marginalized and mocked, for being insightful and tuning out the national pundit take.

 

[Jlaff]

Re-read my penultimate reply.

What are you taking about? I told you I didn't disagree that armchair experts get it wrong. So no "ignorance" there.

The "penultimate" comment in your previous reply was "Nobody on this website has any, aside from Ian" referring to "accountability".

What are you getting at and when are you going to make an actual point other than ball washing Ian?

 

[Jlaff]

Let’s just put it this way: every Patriots homer is a genius from 2001-18 in the same sense every investor is a genius in a bull market. The people who noticed the major red flags with the team were marginalized and mocked, for being insightful and tuning out the national pundit take.

I'm still Team Bill but this is definitely on point.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What are you taking about? I told you I didn't disagree that armchair experts get it wrong. So no "ignorance" there.

The "penultimate" comment in your previous reply was "Nobody on this website has any, aside from Ian" referring to "accountability".

What are you getting at and when are you going to make an actual point other than ball washing Ian?

The cope from Team Bill is something else. As usual they’ll go after the people who call out Bill even though such people are correct. They must hate that 3 hour inconvenience every Sunday.

 

[Ian]

No he constantly reminded everyone about his credentials and also how naive we are to question lord Bill. We’re not “real fans” after all.

I would say, the only issue I’ve had is not giving a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Especially given how he and Tom collectively essentially changed everything here, considering how things were prior to that. That would fall into the “real fan” category, I guess, although it doesn’t necessarily need to be one way or the other.

I’ve always usually preferred the idea to at least let things play out before really critiquing either the team or an individual decision. The reason for that, and I hate to say it, is we’ve had a lot of discussions here that fell into that category early in the season, and turned out to be quite different by December.

There were certainly enough precedents set to justify that mindset. Clearly, that was potentially going to go south at some point, and well, here we are.

 

[PATS16N0]

First Patricia sucked, then Mac sucked, O'brien sucks, Belichick sucks now Patfanken sucked, you guys are taking down everyone in your path, it wasn't kumbaya amongst all those good years but some of you guys are way over the top. The back slapping from posts years ago is childish, sometimes I wonder how old some of you guys are.

Accountability is a real bummer after being a loud mouth forever about how right you are versus how wrong everyone else is.

 

[Jlaff]

Accountability is a real bummer after being a loud mouth forever about how right you are versus how wrong everyone else is.

This is exactly it. We all got to sit there and watch people take premature victory laps for their opinions while mocking those who disagreed. These same people are later shown to be wrong and it's suddenly not appropriate to criticize.

 

[Jlaff]

Come on @VrabelJr, hit me with some of that "logic".

 

[PATS16N0]

This is exactly it. We all got to sit there and watch people take premature victory laps for their opinions while mocking those who disagreed. These same people are later shown to be wrong and it's suddenly not appropriate to criticize.

Yeah, now it’s trolling and drama starting. Before it was just people being right and telling us how stupid we were while being hopelessly and comically wrong.

 

[venecol]

Yeah, that’s never been a thing with him. And that’s also not a thing he’s ever said. That was something I said because his knowledge of the game is significantly better than he was being given credit for.

Even Ken acknowledged that his knowledge was based on a time when football was different. He acknowledged his limitations in understanding the OZB run schemes being run by 49ers and others. The NFL has evolved a lot since his coaching days.

He was consistent in defending Belichick and his coaches, not surprising as a former coach himself. That colored his analysis with ingrained bias that didn't allow valid claims and concetns to be discussed.

That's the point many of us have been trying to make:

1. You have homer fans that root for the team but choose to blindly trust the GM/HC.
2. You have other fans that root for the team but choose to question and criticize the GM/HC.

They both want their team to succeed. On this forum, the first are called real fans, the second haters and negative nancies. You belong to the 1st group. You listen to that group more because they're your boys. You intercede between the 2 groups always supporting the first because you want to maintain a positive forum.

To the second group, it's not positive, it's delusional because reality is being obfuscated with hope. Hope isn't something a lot people believe in unless it's during a game when we all hope the Hail Mary works or hope we can make a 60 yd fg.

Honestly, you really should stay out of interceding in these debates and let us work it out among ourselves. This isn't Romper Room. It's a football forum for gods sakes. It's entertainment. If ppl get annoyed by certain posters let them use the mute/block features. Trying to shut down convos is not the correct strategy. Just my opinion.

 

[PATS16N0]

Had to literally listen to people call for Tom ****ing Brady mentions to get Voldemort’ed into a sub-forum because even mentioning his ‘traitorous’ name was so triggering to the future, while having posts deleted for saying Mac Jones is hot garbage.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

 

[Ian]

Had to literally listen to people call for Tom ****ing Brady mentions to get Voldemort’ed into a sub-forum because even mentioning his ‘traitorous’ name was so triggering to the future, while having posts deleted for saying Mac Jones is hot garbage.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

That’s not the reason. People wanted to follow Brady and the Buccaneers, so rather than have a forum full of Buccaneers threads, I decided to make it easy and give people that space. Granted, yes, for whatever reason, it became polarizing, but as the person who created the forum, that was the intention.

 

[lancerman]

That’s not the reason. People wanted to follow Brady and the Buccaneers, so rather than have a forum full of Buccaneers threads, I decided to make it easy and give people that space. Granted, yes, for whatever reason, it became polarizing, but as the person who created the forum, that was the intention.

To be fair there was an attempt to make a single Bucaneers/Brady megathread to avoid that. That thread also ended up being the thread that got most of the traffic in the Brady forum. There were still people that couldn't handle it and made everyone miserable because they had to see any discussion about it. And then those same people just went into the Tom Brady forum to keep up the complaining. I didn't really see the harm in just leaving it at the one mega thread. There were definitely people that were hyper sensitive to Brady that made it pretty clear that they were intent on astroturfing any discussion about him out of anger of it being there at all.

 

[Ian]

Even Ken acknowledged that his knowledge was based on a time when football was different. He acknowledged his limitations in understanding the OZB run schemes being run by 49ers and others. The NFL has evolved a lot since his coaching days.

He was consistent in defending Belichick and his coaches, not surprising as a former coach himself. That colored his analysis with ingrained bias that didn't allow valid claims and concetns to be discussed.

That's the point many of us have been trying to make:

1. You have homer fans that root for the team but choose to blindly trust the GM/HC.
2. You have other fans that root for the team but choose to question and criticize the GM/HC.

They both want their team to succeed. On this forum, the first are called real fans, the second haters and negative nancies. You belong to the 1st group. You listen to that group more because they're your boys. You intercede between the 2 groups always supporting the first because you want to maintain a positive forum.

Yeah, the problem is that it’s not that simple. Unfortunately, there’s critiquing the team constructively, and then there’s constantly looking for things to be wrong with it.

There are a fair amount of people who fall into that category, and that’s the one that makes discussions and the overall mood of this place challenging. Some of those people would be happy if this place burned down, because they would just move on to the next place/platform/app/whatever.

The people who criticize while also trying to have a balanced conversation at least makes those threads easier to have a real dialogue, as opposed to “F-you, you’re wrong!” and then calling people, “homers”, or whatever.

At the same time, I’m not going to deny that there are also people who go to over the top of the other way, but that only exacerbates the problem. largely, because I don’t believe in calling anybody that chooses to be critical, a hater, unless it’s every single time. But that’s my take on that.

To the second group, it's not positive, it's delusional because reality is being obfuscated with hope. Hope isn't something a lot people believe in unless it's during a game when we all hope the Hail Mary works or hope we can make a 60 yd fg.

Honestly, you really should stay out of interceding in these debates and let us work it out among ourselves. This isn't Romper Room. It's a football forum for gods sakes. It's entertainment. If ppl get annoyed by certain posters let them use the mute/block features. Trying to shut down convos is not the correct strategy. Just my opinion.

Lol, I generally try to, but the problem with that is that usually comes down to who has the endurance to outlast, and wear the other person out. Which, don’t get me wrong, is impressive, but when it goes on for page, after page in the middle of a thread, that can get a little taxing.

 

[Guts]

That’s not the reason. People wanted to follow Brady and the Buccaneers, so rather than have a forum full of Buccaneers threads, I decided to make it easy and give people that space. Granted, yes, for whatever reason, it became polarizing, but as the person who created the forum, that was the intention.

I petition to have the subforum closed
He's retired and he's having his ceremony in June...The topics of the greatest player in franchise and NFL history shouldn't be cast out to Mordor anymore...

 

[Ian]

To be fair there was an attempt to make a single Bucaneers/Brady megathread to avoid that. That thread also ended up being the thread that got most of the traffic in the Brady forum. There were still people that couldn't handle it and made everyone miserable because they had to see any discussion about it. And then those same people just went into the Tom Brady forum to keep up the complaining. I didn't really see the harm in just leaving it at the one mega thread. There were definitely people that were hyper sensitive to Brady that made it pretty clear that they were intent on astroturfing any discussion about him out of anger of it being there at all.

Yes, it started with the megathread, which I didn’t think was fair to people who wanted to follow his progress, and various other stories, that happened during the season. I’m not a big fan of those threads, because it makes it harder to find new relevant news without having to dig through them.

I’m not disagreeing it got a little, ridiculous, but again, that was my thought process there.

 

[Ian]

I petition to have the subforum closed
He's retired and he's having his ceremony in June...The topics of the greatest player in franchise and NFL history shouldn't be cast out to Mordor anymore...

I agree, I just haven’t gotten around to it yet. There are threads in there I don’t want to see die completely by shutting it down, but I haven’t had time to go through them yet

 

[lancerman]

Yes, it started with the megathread, which I didn’t think was fair to people who wanted to follow his progress, and various other stories, that happened during the season. I’m not a big fan of those threads, because it makes it harder to find new relevant news without having to dig through them.

I’m not disagreeing it got a little, ridiculous, but again, that was my thought process there.

Tbh I don't envy the position you were in. I wouldn't want to deal with it