Pass rushing against the Bills lacked disguise

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Finnishfan, Nov 13, 2012.

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  1. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

    After watching the Bills game, I had a feeling that our 3rd down defense had the issue mentioned in the topic. Then after the Monday night game between KC and Steelers, that feeling was only emphasized. So I decided to inflict more severe mental pain on myself and went back to watch the Bills game again.

    Now that feeling of mine got confirmed.

    Breaking down the entire game was too much of a task, so I decided to focus on 3rd down plays by the Bills. I took a screenshot of every starting lineup we had on those plays. The lack of disguise on our pressure packages was staggering. Here are some numbers:

    1) There was a total of 16 times that we lined up for 3rd down (or 4th down), and that includes all downs that were replayed due to penalties.

    2) Including defensive backs, our LOS lineup were
    3 players - once
    4 players - 8 times
    5 players - 4 times
    6 players - 2 times
    7 players - once

    Well this number is partially explained by the fact that we played very little press coverage on 3rd downs, so we only had a total of 14 defensive players line up at the LOS who were in slot/outside coverage positions.

    3) A breakdown of those 60 players who lined up around the ball:
    3 players - 7 times
    4 players - 6 times
    5 players - 3 times

    4) Out of 60 players we had lined up around the ball, a staggering 45 (75%) played with their hand on the ground (and rushed the passer). So there was only a total of 15 standing players around the ball who the OL had account for in those 16 downs.

    5) On 9 of those 16 3rd downs (56.25%), ALL PLAYERS AROUND THE BALL lined up with their hand on the ground

    6) Out of the 29 players who didnt have their hand on the ground, only 5 were in a somewhat successful disguise, others showed either blitz or coverage, and did just that. This is purely based on my perspective, but I paused the plays, read the formation, and missed only 5 calls. And I am not a professional QB.

    Now despite that analysis didn't include all the moving parts, it still showed me one of the biggest reasons why Fitzy looked so comfortable again. We didnt surprise him and we didn't make Bills OL calls more difficult by scheme. They knew exactly when they could double Jones (which was quite often). And we didn't even try to disguise our efforts, at least not with an effort visible to me.

    When you watch any great defensive team play, you see more than often them showing blitz when playing coverage. Why they do this, is becouse they want to keep the OL guessing how many will come, and where they come from. Why is it that we don't even try to hide what we are on the LOS?

    With our level of disguise, Jones will not reach 12 sacks this year, becouse the OL can safely double him on every down and we don't even try to exploit the openings created by those double teams. Funny thing is, he was even tripled on some downs, becouse the Bills had a blocking TE on his side and the Guard expected somekind of a support rush from that side and ended up toying with completely outmatched Jones while Fitzy had as much time as he needed.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  2. Gumby

    Gumby In the Starting Line-Up

    #11 Jersey

    Great stuff.

    Thanks for the hard work. (Gotta love patsfans; posters here always researching and coming up with this type stuff).

    So, it wasn't clear to me; of those 16 times
    how many did we actually rush 3, 4, or how many +4 more
    how many outside blitzers (cb/s)? (i seem to recall only once - dont know if that was a 3rd down)
  3. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

    I didnt write down the amount of rushers, becouse I focused more on the formations and looks we gave them.

    But since I got the screenshots still here, I can look into that.
  4. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Practice Squad Player

    This is exactly what i been saying since day 1. This scheme is garbage and Patricia has no creativity. He expects to win defensively by pure skill alone. This is the NFL buddy our team is not made of all stars. This is why our secondary is so bad, our scheme does nothing to disguise our flaws.
  5. 1960Pats

    1960Pats In the Starting Line-Up

    No Jersey Selected

    I'm hoping that as the season winds down the Pats will add some wrinkles to our defense. Maybe Talib will give the coaching staff the boost it needs to stop playing such a vanilla defense. What's they're doing now is not working.
  6. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

    Here you go, stats made to order. :)

    Our rusher counts (THIS IS OF 13 PLAYS, because 2 false starts and 1 delay of game that were included in the 16 were impossible to include in here):
    3 players - 3 times
    4 players - 8 times
    5 players - once
    7 players - once

    So that is kinda lame. Only 3 or 4 man rushes, and only two outside blitzes (both from slot). Only 1 all out blitz, and there I had only 1 guy in adequate disguise so eventually no one had a free lane to QB and Fitz made us pay.

    Also that 5 player blitz has a run blitz. So we only had 1 pass down there, where we rushed more than 4. Combine that with our crappy disguise, and no wonder we didn't get much pressure on Fitzy.


    Added down and distances (most of them obvious passing downs): Down & distances and rusher counts.
    3&1 0 False start
    3&6 4
    3&16 0 False start
    3&21 3
    3&15 4
    3&2 4
    3&12 4
    3&8 4
    3&16 0 Delay of game
    3&19 3
    3&4 4
    4&4 4
    3&1 5 Run blitz
    3&goal at the 2 7
    3&9 3
    3&3 4

    Also, I need to correct/add few things to OP:

    1) The 45 with hand on the ground was false. 48 is the correct number, so its even worse. Excluding the 2 false starts and 1 delay of game, the number is 43.

    2) We had only 1 guy during the entire game, who didnt rush the passer on 3rd downs after putting his hand on the ground.

    3) We had only 10 pass rushers in those 13 downs that I counted, who didnt have their hand on the ground. So total of 53 rushers on those 13 downs that I was able to count.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  7. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

    A sad addition to this is that all out blitz we pulled on them on the 3rd&goal. Had we even tried to fake blitz earlier, they might have thought we are faking it there as well and someone could have gotten a free pass to Fitz. But since we didnt disguise at all earlier, they knew we were coming.

    That play led to the Donald Jones TD, although I do have to say that it was a great throw by Fitz, blown coverage by Dennard(?) and Fitz was just about to run out of time.
  8. Marqui

    Marqui In the Starting Line-Up

    What scheme? All the Pats D does is line up to get shredded.

    Then again, with their "coaching" they would probably get burnt trying to be creative too.
  9. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

    Fantastic work.

    Watching the game, it really seemed as though they were playing very vanilla, hoping to just keep the lead and make them drive down the field, and not get a quick score on a big play.
  10. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

    I wonder if the D is simply not getting it and forced to simplify
  11. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #24 Jersey

    Any idea how this broke down by quarter? Sure seemed like they backed off further and further as the game went on.

    Thanks for the breakdown.
  12. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

    It was pretty even between the 4.

    If you look at my down and distance + rushers addition from page 1, I can tell you that first 5 took place in the 1st quarter, next 3 took place in the 2nd, and then 4 in the 3rd and 4 in the 4th.

    Out of the 5 in the first, 4 of them came in a bunch due to 3 consecutive penalties. In the second quarter, 2 were bunched. In the 3rd quarter, the first 2 were bunched as well and the next 2 were the 3rd down followed by the 4th down.

    The 4th quarter situations were all "separated".

    Funny thing is this, when I wrote this reply I realized that Bills took staggering 3 pre-snap penalties and 2 holding penalties on 3rd down situations.

    NEVERTHELESS they converted 63% of them, and 1 of which they didn't convert on 3rd down they converted on 4th down.

    The 4 3rd down plays Bills didnt convert went as follows:
    1st Q
    3rd&21 at their own 20 yard line - Draw to Jackson for 10 yards
    2nd Q
    3rd&12 at our 20 yard line - Sack by Ninko, Fitz flushed to the pocket by Jones
    3rd Q
    3rd&19 at their own 3 yard line - Draw to Jackson for 4 yards
    3rd&4 at our 28 yard line - Our only succesful disguise blitz of the night, caused a hasty throw from Fitzy to covered Donald Jones - They did convert the following 4th down

    All 4 converted in the 4th quarter.

    So two of those 3rd down "stops" we had, came with a 3rd&forever on the Bills defensive red zone when they went safe and ran the ball. Only 2 of them were "legit stops" due to a good defensive play.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  13. skspikex2

    skspikex2 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    #22 Jersey

    Even when Chandler Jones got double team, and I think 3 plays where he was triple team, there was still no push from the other end. :mad:
  14. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #24 Jersey

    Thanks again!

    Odd that that the the very vanilla D was the plan all along. It's a bit disconcerting that despite that there appeared to be a good amount of confusion (according to my lying eyes at least) and a lack of fundamentals. Hopefully it's just a product of the new rules + bye or better yet some upcoming changes that weren't ready to be implemented in game. Regardless this had better be a bump in the road rather than true regression because what we saw Sun won't get it done against a PO caliber team.
  15. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

    True, fundamentals were not in place either in that game. I think Tom E Curran said we had 25 missed tackles in that game.

    But I would guess most of them were on CJ Spiller who is one of the fastest guys in the NFL and Fred Jackson who was the RB who broke most tackles in the NFL in 2011 (if my memory serves me correct here).

    Also, I really don't know the averages here. 25 sounds like a lot, but thats about as deep as I can dig into that number.
  16. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #24 Jersey

    It looks like the Bills took 68 snaps on offense; I have to believe missing a tackle every 3 snaps on average is not just high, but embarrassingly so.
  17. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract


    if it understand you, we should be blitzing more. Please describe the results of a B Spikes blitz that tackled nothing but air, and turned a routine two yard gain, into a 25 yard romp by CJ around left end.

    Why or why Mr.Cass, why didn't that work? In all your posts about new schemes, you never say anything about the results of that play you prescribe.
  18. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

    I see your point in that things aren't as simplistic as "blitz more!", like some posters here seem to suggest. But in his defense, I wouldn't call a MLB blitz up the middle a dazzling display of play calling creativity, though.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  19. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Practice Squad Player

    Is this a legitimate question? Seriously think about what you are saying. What fantasy world do you live in where plays/schemes will be successful 100% of the time on every play? Cmon man get serious.
  20. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    Kind of a silly argument indeed.

    If we're going to play it like that how many points,first downs and yards were given up in that soft prevent D ?
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