Our Future At OT

[mgteich]

2016
I'm fine with 2016. We have too solid starters. We have Cannon that Scar as our 2016 backup. And we have Thuney as the emergency #4 OT. We also have Waddle or Fleming if we want to carry four OT's not including Thuney.

2017
We have Solder in his contract year, with no possibility of franchise in 2018.
We have Waddle.

Will someone make sense of this for me.

 

[supafly]

I don't know if Thuney is any more capable of playing emergency OT in the NFL than guys here who have already done it like Stork and Kline. Either way, yes, we should have interior linemen who are able to spot start in a pinch.

I still think that they should've gone OT in the draft because there's absolutely nothing behind Solder/Vollmer. Why that is would be anyone's guess, but it not only affects 2017, but 2016 as well.

 

[Gronk]

Will someone make sense of this for me.

Anyone who attempts to do so is lying.

It's a problem. Solder due to injury, etc may be a possible get for reasonable cost thru 2019 or so. RT I think they're hoping for the best. There's no long-term plan set in stone at any OL position, that's just how it is. More volume on the interior OL positions though.

 

[supafly]

Is there any chance that they may be more confident in the possibility of keeping one of Gronk/Bennett in to block should an injury to an OT occur? That would be my one and only guess, because I just can't get on board with the "Scarnecchia loves Marcus Cannon" theory.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

we have a big problem at tackle if either vollmer or solder get hurt again. the same deal with RB is blount goes down.

 

[Gronk]

Is there any chance that they may be more confident in the possibility of keeping one of Gronk/Bennett in to block should an injury to an OT occur? That would be my one and only guess, because I just can't get on board with the "Scarnecchia loves Marcus Cannon" theory.

I think that's more in a "that could help in a pinch or certain situations" category, or 2 good blocking TEs is better than one/none. There's no way they're counting on TE blocking play as a substitute for the main 5 OL play as an offensive concept, generally speaking.

I've sort of come around on maybe thinking that I've unfairly reduced Cannon's performance to what I saw in the AFCCG, but I have to be proven wrong before I would speak otherwise. He might not be the worst option available, but he's got work to do to for sure. The avoidance of OTs in the draft says that Scar approves, but he can approve all he wants if the OL is the reason they suck in 2016 he will take a bigger hit than he ever did before.

 

[supafly]

I think that's more in a "that could help in a pinch or certain situations" category, or 2 good blocking TEs is better than one/none. There's no way they're counting on TE blocking play as a substitute for the main 5 OL play as an offensive concept, generally speaking.

I've sort of come around on maybe thinking that I've unfairly reduced Cannon's performance to what I saw in the AFCCG, but I have to be proven wrong before I would speak otherwise. He might not be the worst option available, but he's got work to do to for sure. The avoidance of OTs in the draft says that Scar approves, but he can approve all he wants if the OL is the reason they suck in 2016 he will take a bigger hit than he ever did before.

There's no way that they're sticking with Cannon, Waddle, and Fleming as our backup OTs. No way in hell.

Cannon--on his BEST day, is strictly a RT only.

 

[BelichickFan]

Patriots Won't Overlook LaAdrian Waddle - PatsPropaganda

 

[supafly]

Patriots Won't Overlook LaAdrian Waddle - PatsPropaganda

I'm guessing that they feel that Waddle currently fills the backup LT role, which is where they had him lining up before injury. It surely isn't Cannon or Fleming.

I'm hoping that someone else is added between now and the end of TC, and/or that someone else steps up and offers a viable option. I'm assuming that Fleming will eventually be let go and it will be Waddle and Cannon as the backup OTs. We could do worse, but it's nothing that's going to make anyone feel comfortable, either.

 

[Gronk]

There's no way that they're sticking with Cannon, Waddle, and Fleming as our backup OTs. No way in hell.

Cannon--on his BEST day, is strictly a RT only.

I think you're right conceptually, the T position in the case of (almost certain) injury of Solder or Vollmer is horrific on its face. But they didn't do anything to improve that spot in the draft or FA, so....I think they might be sticking with that.

I feel like I have no idea what they think of the T position. If no one but Solder/Vollmer has to see significant time they're probably ok. rCannon at RT would not damage my psyche if not for the AFCCG, so maybe he's ok. I can get over it, but he's gotta be perfect or I'll **** on his mom.

 

[supafly]

I think you're right conceptually, the T position in the case of (almost certain) injury of Solder or Vollmer is horrific on its face. But they didn't do anything to improve that spot in the draft or FA, so....I think they might be sticking with that.

I feel like I have no idea what they think of the T position. If no one but Solder/Vollmer has to see significant time they're probably ok. rCannon at RT would not damage my psyche if not for the AFCCG, so maybe he's ok. I can get over it, but he's gotta be perfect or I'll **** on his mom.

I suppose that once it's broken down with Waddle at LT and Cannon at RT, it seems as though we can "get by" with the usual handful of missed games from our starters.

That said, I would certainly feel much better if one of the no-names stepped up and looked good in camp, as well as potential exploration for another team's cap casualty or roster trimming. Unfortunately, there are TWO pretty big wildcards in play, and that's what's likely making people skeptical. One would be the talent of La'Adrian Waddle ("who names their kid 'La'Adrian?' "), and the other would be which version of Marcus Cannon shows up. One has looked serviceable at RT, while the other version has looked very inconsistent and downright lousy.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Are the 49ers still looking to shop Anthony Davis? Can he fit into the cap?

 

[supafly]

Are the 49ers still looking to shop Anthony Davis? Can he fit into the cap?

I'm not sure how that works when a player officially retires and then comes back. According to Sportrac, he was due for a 5.1m dollar cap hit this year, but they "crossed out" the specifics of his pact once he retired, as you can see in the link : Anthony Davis

I'd have to guess that @Miguel has weighed in on this once or twice over the years, so maybe he can shed some light on whether or not SF still controls his rights (I think they still do), and whether or not the original pact is still in place (I'm guessing that it is).

The Pats can obviously create some additional cap space from any number of moves, so it's certainly doable. The bigger question for me would be what they'd want in return, and the fact as to why something wasn't done with another team over draft weekend.

 

[VectorPrime]

Unless we get really lucky and get a gem like Vollmer in a late round again I honestly have no idea how we are going to get by after next season. We simply don't pick high enough to draft franchise tackles and I highly doubt we will give top end money to a FA.

 

[mgteich]

I suppose that once it's broken down with Waddle at LT and Cannon at RT, it seems as though we can "get by" with the usual handful of missed games from our starters.

That said, I would certainly feel much better if one of the no-names stepped up and looked good in camp, as well as potential exploration for another team's cap casualty or roster trimming. Unfortunately, there are TWO pretty big wildcards in play, and that's what's likely making people skeptical. One would be the talent of La'Adrian Waddle ("who names their kid 'La'Adrian?' "), and the other would be which version of Marcus Cannon shows up. One has looked serviceable at RT, while the other version has looked very inconsistent and downright lousy.

Are you presuming that we have two backups OT's active instead of the usual one?

 

[mgteich]

I have to believe that the team is planning on extending one, or even two, of our OT's. As of now, we have Solder and Waddle for 2017, and no one beyond.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

It's very concerning that we're going into the season with the same backups as last year. Of course Scars knows how to evaluate these guys as he is the best in the business, but it's pretty clear to the casual fan that Cannon and Fleming could'nt get the job done last year as backups. Not sure about Waddle, but a lot of fans want to run Cannon and Fleming out of town.

 

[Gronk]

I have to believe that the team is planning on extending one, or even two, of our OT's. As of now, we have Solder and Waddle for 2017, and no one beyond.

Solder is the only one whose performance and age make sense. Solder is a reasonable approximation of Matt Light at LT - not a total beast, but an absolutely solid plus player who is signable at reasonable money - so hopefully last year was an aberration injury-wise like Light missing most of '05 and they can get another 4-6 years out of him. **** him missing time might even make him cheaper. Starting over completely there seems undesirable.

They have a lot of talent/competition stacked up at C/G and I think that will work itself out. I'd go as far as to say that, unless they have drafted totally wrong there, they should be set there with talent and contract leverage for a few years out between Stork, Andrews, Jackson, Mason, Cooper, Thuney, pick 5 as actives given that they can kick Stork or Thuney out to T in a pinch if not as a norm.

That leaves RT and swing/backup T as the problem area, and they've done nothing to address that long-term or improve it short-term. If Vollmer (and Solder too, really) don't miss any time they're good for this year, but beyond...eh. I don't think of Waddle as much besides semi-competent filler, it's a big but not unfixable issue that does need to be addressed. For 2016 they seem to be counting on being healthier than 2015 as enough to make it work. That's at least logical, if imperfect and potentially problematic.

 

[supafly]

Are you presuming that we have two backups OT's active instead of the usual one?

Incorrectly, yes.

And just when I was beginning to think that it all made sense.

 

[BTTA]

There's no way that they're sticking with Cannon, Waddle, and Fleming as our backup OTs. No way in hell.

It has been suggested here in prior threads that a quick scan around the league would show that very few teams have more than two good tackles, and many are struggling to find the second one.