OT: Percy Harvin Wants Out

[PATSYLICIOUS]

No to Harvin but this thread got me thinking of what BB is going to do about our KR situation, we desperately need an upgrade there. Did we have a single KR past midfield last year?

 

[VJCPatriot]

But heres' the rub about Harvin's 58% snap count. How are you going to get Harvin consistently on the field when the Pats mostly play double tight end sets to take advantage of Gronk and Hernandez? Lloyd and Welker are already locked in as our two top wideouts.

Furthermore Harvin mainly plays a slot role, same as Welker, although he does have more speed and has KR ability, which is something we do need. But how do you get him on the field enough to satisfy him, considering playing time is one of his main complaints?

And last but not least, it's all about the money. Even if PH was available for only a '2nd round pick' (which is pure speculation btw, it might cost more), how can you afford to pay Harvin and Welker, and then later resign Hernandez too? If Harvin is looking for an 8m+ deal, I don't see it very likely that he will get it from the Pats. Which means that basically we are giving up a 2nd rounder or more for a 2 year rental?

No to Harvin but this thread got me thinking of what BB is going to do about our KR situation, we desperately need an upgrade there. Did we have a single KR past midfield last year?

How can you forget Connolly's miracle kick return? That play basically won us the game! As for KR, yeah we need one. Hopefully one of our younguns such as Vereen can step into it because it was very bad last year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

But heres' the rub about Harvin's 58% snap count. How are you going to get Harvin consistently on the field when the Pats mostly play double tight end sets to take advantage of Gronk and Hernandez? Lloyd and Welker are already locked in as our two top wideouts.

Furthermore Harvin mainly plays a slot role, same as Welker, although he does have more speed and has KR ability, which is something we do need. But how do you get him on the field enough to satisfy him, considering playing time is one of his main complaints?

And last but not least, it's all about the money. Even if PH was available for only a '2nd round pick' (which is pure speculation btw, it might cost more), how can you afford to pay Harvin and Welker, and then later resign Hernandez too? If Harvin is looking for an 8m+ deal, I don't see it very likely that he will get it from the Pats. Which means that basically we are giving up a 2nd rounder or more for a 2 year holdout rental?

Fixed that for you.

 

[treeclimber]

No to Harvin but this thread got me thinking of what BB is going to do about our KR situation, we desperately need an upgrade there. Did we have a single KR past midfield last year?

i dont think bill cares about kickoffs due to the fact the nfl reduced the importance of them. thats why slater always tells them to stay in the end zone cause he doesnt want them hurt

 

[Nehalem]

But heres' the rub about Harvin's 58% snap count. How are you going to get Harvin consistently on the field when the Pats mostly play double tight end sets to take advantage of Gronk and Hernandez? Lloyd and Welker are already locked in as our two top wideouts.

Furthermore Harvin mainly plays a slot role, same as Welker, although he does have more speed and has KR ability, which is something we do need. But how do you get him on the field enough to satisfy him, considering playing time is one of his main complaints?

And last but not least, it's all about the money. Even if PH was available for only a '2nd round pick' (which is pure speculation btw, it might cost more), how can you afford to pay Harvin and Welker, and then later resign Hernandez too? If Harvin is looking for an 8m+ deal, I don't see it very likely that he will get it from the Pats. Which means that basically we are giving up a 2nd rounder or more for a 2 year rental?

Harvin would be used to replace Welker. In theory he would be a faster Welker, who can also be a deep threat, running back, and elite kick returner.

 

[Ivan]

Harvin would be used to replace Welker. In theory he would be a faster Welker, who can also be a deep threat, running back, and elite kick returner.

True that, and in theory Ochocinco would have been an All Pro once working with Brady and Haynesworth All World once being utilized properly. Little did we know that utilizing Big AL properly really meant handing him a knife and fork.

 

[Snake Eyes]

True that, and in theory Ochocinco would have been an All Pro once working with Brady and Haynesworth All World once being utilized properly. Little did we know that utilizing Big AL properly really meant handing him a knife and fork.

Was BB stupid for hiring Brandon Lloyd? I mean, in theory he's supposed to help out the offense but he might just be another in a long line of WR free agent busts?

Harvin's abilities could provide a very nice boost to our offense capabilities, not something to be taken lightly.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Was BB stupid for hiring Brandon Lloyd? I mean, in theory he's supposed to help out the offense but he might just be another in a long line of WR free agent busts?

Harvin's abilities could provide a very nice boost to our offense capabilities, not something to be taken lightly.

Lloyd has already had success in the system and with the OC albeit working with jag QB's. So you're trying to compare apples to an orange.

 

[Ivan]

Was BB stupid for hiring Brandon Lloyd? I mean, in theory he's supposed to help out the offense but he might just be another in a long line of WR free agent busts?

Harvin's abilities could provide a very nice boost to our offense capabilities, not something to be taken lightly.

Brandon Lloyd didn't cost them Wes Welker, and as most people know being on the same page as Brady is critical to success in the Patriots offense. No player is more in sync with Brady than Welker, who Brady calls "the best player on our team," and there is absolutely no way to know if Harvin would be able to thrive the way Welker has. Just because he's fast and plays the slot doesn't make it a smart move, and basically any realistic trade involving Welker is idiotic. If they want to bring him in to add to the roster i'm fine with giving up a 3rd for him, if it involves Welker no thanks.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Harvin is not going anywhere...including NE.

Harvin seems to be pissed off and is making these statements,but the Vikings have NO plans on trading him,they need Harvin to keep this team from being a one dimentional team and killing Peterson with overuse when he returns.

 

[BlueThunder]

Trade Ninkovich, Edelman, a 3rd and a 7th for Harvin.

Keep that up and you wont be around for post #2

 

[Ivan]

Harvin's abilities could provide a very nice boost to our offense capabilities, not something to be taken lightly.

There is no player in football who the Patriots could get in trade for Welker who would produce more than he has, so the idea he would be a "boost" is foolish.


If the Lions want to trade Calvin Johnson then I'm on board with the swap, other than that no thanks, and even then the Patriots would have to hope like hell a great slot WR emerged to keep Brady from getting killed on blitzes.

 

[Ivan]

Harvin is not going anywhere...including NE.

Harvin seems to be pissed off and is making these statements,but the Vikings have NO plans on trading him,they need Harvin to keep this team from being a one dimentional team and killing Peterson with overuse when he returns.

I agree, Spielman appears intent upon making an example of Harvin, and the Vikings hold all the cards. he can hold out but all it will do is improve their draft position next year, they know they aren't going anywhere this year so a hold-out threatens nothing.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Harvin was back at mini camp practice this AM so they must have hugged it out... Either that or someone explained the new holdout math to him.

 

[Snake Eyes]

There is no player in football who the Patriots could get in trade for Welker who would produce more than he has, so the idea he would be a "boost" is foolish.

First off, I never endorsed any particular trade involving Welker. Next, how do you know Harvin woudnt outproduce Welker? That's just speculation on your part, nothing more.

Finally, Harvin's versatility creates impact beyond what his stats indicate. The fact that a defense has to spend time preparing for more attacks by the Patriots means they're going to be spread thinner at their practice and have to make more decisions during a game, increasing the liklihood they'll make a mistake.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

i dont think bill cares about kickoffs due to the fact the nfl reduced the importance of them. thats why slater always tells them to stay in the end zone cause he doesnt want them hurt

Kickoffs are still very important. There were not as many but still 9 KR TD's in the league last year and in the Super Bowl too the Giants had a couple pretty good returns out past the 30 and was part of the reason they controlled the field position all day, at least 1 or 2 lead to FG's that you never know would have occured had they started the possession 10-15 yards back. It was a tough break because we had superior ST's to the Giants all season except that day but it shows how KR can affect the game even without monster returns. The Patriots need a legit KR badly I believe we were 29th in the league in KR Avg.

 

[Deus Irae]

First off, I never endorsed any particular trade involving Welker. Next, how do you know Harvin woudnt outproduce Welker?...

We don't know that a 3 month old infant wouldn't outproduce Welker. You can't possibly know unless you actually perform the 'experiment' under the required conditions.

However, we do know that what Welker has done had never been done before. Welker has 4 100 catch seasons (would likely have been 5 without the ACL injury, but what is, is), and 2 120 catch seasons. If it hasn't been done before despite there being literally thousands of people who had the opportunity to do it, it's usually (admittedly not always) because it's a difficult thing to do. The odds are that Harvin would not be able to match Welker, let alone beat him.

 

[Snake Eyes]

We don't know that a 3 month old infant wouldn't outproduce Welker. You can't possibly know unless you actually perform the 'experiment' under the required conditions.

However, we do know that what Welker has done had never been done before. Welker has 4 100 catch seasons (would likely have been 5 without the ACL injury, but what is, is), and 2 120 catch seasons. If it hasn't been done before despite there being literally thousands of people who had the opportunity to do it, it's usually (admittedly not always) because it's a difficult thing to do. The odds are that Harvin would not be able to match Welker, let alone beat him.

I think the odds of Harvin coming in and having a great year are better than the 3 month old infant. Also, is it possible Welker's season isn't as good as last season?

Having less focus on Welker is a good thing.

 

[BradyFTW!]

One other thing to think about: Harvin is presumably demanding a trade because he wants a new contract. If you trade for him then you have to give him a new deal. How is that going to sit with players currently on the team that have not been extended yet, like Hernandez, Vollmer, Chung and Spikes?

This- I dunno why anyone thinks he would come cheap. He's mad at the Vikings for a reason, and when a player's mad at his team it's almost always because he wants more money.

 

[Danger Zone]

About Welker.. even as age catches up to him and he loses a step, he is none-the-less on the same page as Brady.

One thing that IS proven about Welker (and not Harvin), is that he completely gets the offense.

... sometimes super talented receivers come in and never "get" it. :wink:

Smarts count for a lot with this offense (Brown, Branch etc). Maybe his pay will outstrip Welkers aging talent, but pay aside, I think there will be a place for Welker here for a several years yet, even if its as a possession receiver.