OT: Jets going after Jason Taylor HARD

[Deus Irae]

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I am banned at GangGreen.

Good for you! Even for a Jets fan, being banned from that cesspool should be considered a badge of honor. Unfortunately for you, JI is even worse.

 

[zoostation]

Can someone explain to me why Mayo is such a better player then David Harris?

Is this a f#cking joke??? Please tell me you're not serious!

 

[Adam Seward]

The JETS FO has excelled and gettiing good talent in quickly over the past 3-4 years, while the PATS have not.
The JETS trajectory is on an upward slope and the Patriots is not.
It di not have to be this way. the PATS had teh ammunition to ve up and pull off a "Darrell Revis" trade but BB and the FO were arrogant and assumed they could coach up "B" level players to "A" level.

The well si running dry and 3 second round picks are not going to instantly turn this team back into the 2007 patriots.

Building a team and collecting talent are distinctly separate.

Please tell me you have not set 2007 as the standard to judge the Pats, thats ridiculous, the team was probably the best of the decade and one of the best all time. 2007 was the peak on the "slope graph trajectory" you are using to judge the franchises. Just because it has come back down to reality and we arent winning with Madden like ease doesnt mean we arent ahead of the Jets and our franchise has been tapering off. Remember, their fanbase sold their souls to get the Jets into the playoffs last year.

 

[jmt57]

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I am banned at GangGreen.

If it was a ban at Jets Insider, that would have been sacreligious after the epic Rat in the basement thread.

Got Rat! - Jets Insider.com Forums

Damn, the pictures aren't showing up any more - too bad, that thread was a classic.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Why has this turned into another Pats vs Jets draft and FA moves thread? We've already had enough of those! It will be settled on the field come September.

Getting back on topic. With the Boston Globe saying Taylor and the Pats have mutual interest, what are the chances he ends up here?

I would think if given a choice between NE and the NYJ, he would choose NE unless the salary he is offered is vastly different and that plays a large role in his decision making.

I wanted him last year, and I've been interested in him again this year in somewhat of a rotational DE/OLB role. I think he'd be a great locker room presence and would be a good mentor for Crable and any other young DE/OLB we add.

Some have said his level of play has considerably dropped. Anyone live in Florida or have Sunday ticket and get a good look at this guy last season for more than 2 games?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Can someone explain to me why Mayo is such a better player then David Harris?

Mayo is more athletic, has superior sideline-to-sideline range, has the athleticism to cover tight ends, and is plenty capable against the run. Harris is a superior run-stuffer, but that's just about it. The result is that Mayo's a far more versatile player, he's on the field more, and his presence on the field doesn't tip the defense's hand as to what they're doing to nearly the extent that Harris' does.

Honestly, up until earlier today, I had never heard of anyone even suggesting that Harris was a comparable player. Even if Mayo doesn't make it 100% back this year--which we have no reason to believe that he won't--he's still better.

 

[WelshPat]

I'm kinda siding with Mangold on this one, i think they are pretty comparable players.

And too whoever said Faneca made D'brick a better player, you are way off base, Faneca is the worst player on that line, no where near the player he once was

 

[Mangold74]

Mayo is more athletic, has superior sideline-to-sideline range, has the athleticism to cover tight ends, and is plenty capable against the run. Harris is a superior run-stuffer, but that's just about it. The result is that Mayo's a far more versatile player, he's on the field more, and his presence on the field doesn't tip the defense's hand as to what they're doing to nearly the extent that Harris' does.

Honestly, up until earlier today, I had never heard of anyone even suggesting that Harris was a comparable player. Even if Mayo doesn't make it 100% back this year--which we have no reason to believe that he won't--he's still better.

Your way off base on Harris. Maybe you don't watch the Jets, but Harris is often a primary pass rusher in Rex's scheme.

He does a solid job in covering backs and tight ends and he also is in dropping into a zone.

I will say Mayo might be a little more fluid laterally then Harris but Harris ability to pass rush more then makes up for that.

After Revis, Harris the most important player on the Jets defense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Originally Posted by Mangold74
To make matters worse, the JETS FO is going to bring Taylor in...you don't think that is demoralizing to the PATS?

Why would it be...because we had interest last season? Taylor is just using the JETS for leverage. Miami is still interested but doesn't want to sign him for 2 more years and doesn't want to sign him until they know how his shoulder has rehabbed. The JETS are desperate to sign someone in the slot losing their PK opened up. Taylor is the one target they could sign in that slot that would grab ink, which is what Woody values most.

The Patriots haven't contacted Taylor's agent at all this off season.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Agent for Jason Taylor says there’s been no contact with Patriots as of yet

 

[Rob0729]

Brad Smith in 4 seasons has returned kicks for half a season. He's been the Jets best special teams player for the last four years. They've used him as a good role player on offense. He was a converted QB project drafted in the 4th round and while he's never going to be even an average wr from scrimmage his value on specials has been great.

The only high pick that the Jets recieved that they totally bombed on was Gholston. You seem to hate Sanchez for no apparent reason. Brick is a franchise LT, Revis was the best defensive player in football last year, I'll take Harris any day over Mayo. You judge Keller on his stats but the Jets rarely passed the ball last year. If my memory is correct, the Pats have struggled to cover him, he had touchdown receptions in the playoffs. You seem to think Keller is another crappy player but he's not and he's entering his 3rd season and he will have the same qb for the first time.

Leon Washington was one hell of a 4th round pick prior to injuring his knee in Oakland. A great kick returner and a third down back that can score a touchdown any time the ball is in his hands.

You make it out like the Jets haven't drafted well or if they have drafted well it's only because they had a high pick or traded up. Plenty of teams screw up high picks and plenty of teams trade up and screw up picks.

Did you really say that Wilhite and Edelman have done more as pros then Sanchez and Keller? Is that a joke?

D'Brickishaw Ferguson is the most overrated player on the Jets. Good, not great run blocker and mediocre pass blocker. The fact that the overall Jets' line is great, he gets credit for it. But there is a reason why the Jets run to the right side of the line more than twice as much as they run to the left.

Keller has worlds of talent, but is like Ben Watson. He is far too inconsistent. He can be Antonio Gates like one game and then go several games where he is invisible. Blame the gameplan all you want, but with Sanchez struggling all season he needed a consistent dump off outlet and he wasn't open.

As for Harris vs. Mayo, the jury is still out. Last year, the world would have taken Mayo over Harris in a heartbeat. Why? Because like Mayo this year, Harris had a disapointing second season largely due to injuries.

The jury is still out on Sanchez. He has shown some flashes of brilliance, but overall his performance last year was very, very subpar for the fifth overall pick. I know it was his rookie season, but he was awful until the Jets made a conscious effort to take the ball out of his hands and made him a game manager who handed the ball off 30 plus times a game and passed for 19 or less passes.

 

[NE39]

Your way off base on Harris. Maybe you don't watch the Jets, but Harris is often a primary pass rusher in Rex's scheme.

He does a solid job in covering backs and tight ends and he also is in dropping into a zone.

I will say Mayo might be a little more fluid laterally then Harris but Harris ability to pass rush more then makes up for that.

After Revis, Harris the most important player on the Jets defense.

I like Harris and think he is a good player, but he isn't Ray Lewis. He is a tough, instinctive player who plays disciplined and does a good job getting to the ball to make tackles. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes and is a hard hitter.

However, he doesn't move well laterally and he isn't a good man defender in coverage. Basically, Mayo can do the thing Harris does and is better in coverage. That is my take anyway, and I've seen them both play quite a bit.

I think Bart Scott is kind of overrated in the Jets defense as well. The guy who is very underrated in the Jets front 7 is Calvin Pace. He is a terrific LB with real versatility. He does everything well.

 

[JSn]

Vrabel has exactly (4) sacks in his last 29 regular season games. But if you mean a young Vrabel, then I agree.

Yes, a Vrabel-type is what I was implying.

 

[Zeus]

D'Brickishaw Ferguson is the most overrated player on the Jets.

That's a remarkable accomplishment considering the competition.

 

[Metaphors]

The guy who is very underrated in the Jets front 7 is Calvin Pace. He is a terrific LB with real versatility. He does everything well.

Agree. Also believe Bryan Thomas is a solid player that doesn't get enough ink. If Taylor signs, Thomas (30 yo, $3M+ salary the next 2 years) will likely go to make room. From the Pats perspective, I would have Thomas in town for a visit before he unpacked his locker.

As for all the Jets love being spread around, where were you people around Christmas? The Jets were 7-7, 4-7 in the last 11 with the only wins being Oakland, Carolina, Buffalo and TB. Tubby even pronounced them out of the playoffs.

The Jets have played 5 games since then:
- 2 lay-down games by the Colts and Bengals
- Beat a terrible Bengals team
- Beat a good SD team by gaining 262 net yards (53 on one play when the stud CB from SD escorted Greene for the winning TD) and the SD kicker went 0-3
- Lost to Indy being outscored 24-0 (drives of 80, 57, 65, 65) to finish the game

That is the only on-field evidence beyond the very ordinary team the Jets fielded in week #15 (home loss to Atlanta in what the Jets considered a playoff game). That is the difference from the bandwagon being absolutely empty to being overflowing.

Maybe the off-season is the reason for optimism?
- Lost their top rusher and replaced him with a RB that has 3400 touches worth of tread worn off the tires (ypc progression of 5.2, 4.7, 3.8, 3.3)
- Lost their #2 CB and replaced him with the stud CB from SD mentioned above, whose reputation is built on half a season in 2007
- Lost a young, talented safety and replaced him with a guy who has 4 documented concussions
- Welcome back a 31 yo NT who flirts with 400 lbs. and has been washed out of 3 of the last 6 seasons...and welcome back their scatback and return guy off of injury (but disgruntled over contract issues)
- Their savior QB still isn't running after a "minor" procedure on his knee almost 2 months ago

So they lost Jones, Sheppard and Rhodes and replaced them with Pouty, Daddy and Dizzy? I submit to you that the Jets are not any better than they were after week #15 and are counting on Sanchez having a big offseason of development (still...isn't...running) to result in huge improvement in 2010. If anyone was touting the Jets a little over 3 months ago, I'll listen. Anyone who joined the parade after Christmas, not so much.

 

[DEVIOUS 1]

Agree. Also believe Bryan Thomas is a solid player that doesn't get enough ink. If Taylor signs, Thomas (30 yo, $3M+ salary the next 2 years) will likely go to make room. From the Pats perspective, I would have Thomas in town for a visit before he unpacked his locker.

As for all the Jets love being spread around, where were you people around Christmas? The Jets were 7-7, 4-7 in the last 11 with the only wins being Oakland, Carolina, Buffalo and TB. Tubby even pronounced them out of the playoffs.

The Jets have played 5 games since then:
- 2 lay-down games by the Colts and Bengals
- Beat a terrible Bengals team
- Beat a good SD team by gaining 262 net yards (53 on one play when the stud CB from SD escorted Greene for the winning TD) and the SD kicker went 0-3
- Lost to Indy being outscored 24-0 (drives of 80, 57, 65, 65) to finish the game

That is the only on-field evidence beyond the very ordinary team the Jets fielded in week #15 (home loss to Atlanta in what the Jets considered a playoff game). That is the difference from the bandwagon being absolutely empty to being overflowing.

Maybe the off-season is the reason for optimism?
- Lost their top rusher and replaced him with a RB that has 3400 touches worth of tread worn off the tires (ypc progression of 5.2, 4.7, 3.8, 3.3)
- Lost their #2 CB and replaced him with the stud CB from SD mentioned above, whose reputation is built on half a season in 2007
- Lost a young, talented safety and replaced him with a guy who has 4 documented concussions
- Welcome back a 31 yo NT who flirts with 400 lbs. and has been washed out of 3 of the last 6 seasons...and welcome back their scatback and return guy off of injury (but disgruntled over contract issues)
- Their savior QB still isn't running after a "minor" procedure on his knee almost 2 months ago

So they lost Jones, Sheppard and Rhodes and replaced them with Pouty, Daddy and Dizzy? I submit to you that the Jets are not any better than they were after week #15 and are counting on Sanchez having a big offseason of development (still...isn't...running) to result in huge improvement in 2010. If anyone was touting the Jets a little over 3 months ago, I'll listen. Anyone who joined the parade after Christmas, not so much.

Stop trying to bring logic to an illogical discussion.

 

[JSn]

Diner morning news: Is Taylor a fit in New York? | National Football Post

This is a good read.

Excerpt:

Taylor won’t get 15 sacks, and we all know Ryan has no inner voice; he just says what he thinks. Fifteen sacks are hard for anyone to achieve, but Ryan believes his scheme will enhance Taylor’s game. If this were 2000, I would believe Ryan, but it’s 2010, and I don’t believe, based on tape, that Taylor is capable of double-digit sacks.

 

[Mangold74]

Agree. Also believe Bryan Thomas is a solid player that doesn't get enough ink. If Taylor signs, Thomas (30 yo, $3M+ salary the next 2 years) will likely go to make room. From the Pats perspective, I would have Thomas in town for a visit before he unpacked his locker.

As for all the Jets love being spread around, where were you people around Christmas? The Jets were 7-7, 4-7 in the last 11 with the only wins being Oakland, Carolina, Buffalo and TB. Tubby even pronounced them out of the playoffs.

The Jets have played 5 games since then:
- 2 lay-down games by the Colts and Bengals
- Beat a terrible Bengals team
- Beat a good SD team by gaining 262 net yards (53 on one play when the stud CB from SD escorted Greene for the winning TD) and the SD kicker went 0-3
- Lost to Indy being outscored 24-0 (drives of 80, 57, 65, 65) to finish the game

That is the only on-field evidence beyond the very ordinary team the Jets fielded in week #15 (home loss to Atlanta in what the Jets considered a playoff game). That is the difference from the bandwagon being absolutely empty to being overflowing.

Maybe the off-season is the reason for optimism?
- Lost their top rusher and replaced him with a RB that has 3400 touches worth of tread worn off the tires (ypc progression of 5.2, 4.7, 3.8, 3.3)
- Lost their #2 CB and replaced him with the stud CB from SD mentioned above, whose reputation is built on half a season in 2007
- Lost a young, talented safety and replaced him with a guy who has 4 documented concussions
- Welcome back a 31 yo NT who flirts with 400 lbs. and has been washed out of 3 of the last 6 seasons...and welcome back their scatback and return guy off of injury (but disgruntled over contract issues)
- Their savior QB still isn't running after a "minor" procedure on his knee almost 2 months ago

So they lost Jones, Sheppard and Rhodes and replaced them with Pouty, Daddy and Dizzy? I submit to you that the Jets are not any better than they were after week #15 and are counting on Sanchez having a big offseason of development (still...isn't...running) to result in huge improvement in 2010. If anyone was touting the Jets a little over 3 months ago, I'll listen. Anyone who joined the parade after Christmas, not so much.

1) The love being spread around? A pats fan started a thread about the Jets going after Jason Taylor. No matter what any Jets fan says they are obviously wrong and a moron. I find it comical that since your team has had success for the last decade that all of you think your smarter then other teams fans.

2) The Jets can only play who the teams on their schedule. If you want to find fault in them beating Indy, Cincy, Cincy and then San Diego be my guest. I'm pretty sure that if the Pats had beaten those teams to get to the AFC championship that none of you would have complained that your opponent wasn't strong enough.

Let's also keep in mind that San Diego was favored at home by double digitis and hadn't lost a game in how many weeks? The Chargers offense was playing at an extremely high level until they ran into the Jets defense. I guess you won't give any credit to the top defensive and rushing team in the league last year.

The Jets were giving Peyton a hard time in Indy but I'll be honest the Colts are a better team and the Jets defense was running on fumes. Strickland and Scott both were hurt and missed a large portion of that game. When the Jets had to go to their 5th corner in Drew Coleman against Peyton you knew they were in trouble. Shocking that a rookie qb playing with an exhausted injured defense couldn't win a third straight playoff game on the road in Indianapolis against Peyton Manning.

3) The Atlanta game was a bad loss, but thats what happens when you start a rookie qb. Sanchez by himself lost a number of games. The Jets made the decision to go with a rookie qb rather then signing a veteran. Sanchez killed them against New Orleans, New England, Buffalo and Atlanta. 15 of his interceptions came in 4 games. Sanchez was the main reason why the Jets didn't win 10+ games. If they had brought in a decent veteran qb their defense was so good that they would have easily won 10 games.

4) Thomas Jones was a product of the Jets line. If you give him a big hole he will get yards, but he doesn't like contact, never breaks a tackle and has zero value as a check down out of the backfield. The Jets decided they were better off paying Tomlinson for one year around $2 million then paying Thomas Jones 1 year for 5+ million. Tomlinson is not the primary back, he will not be on the field for 50 snaps. They brought him in as a role player and to help Sanchez develop. Tomlinson is not what he used to be, but for one year he can improve the Jets overall offense.

The Jets lost their 2nd best corner? Lito Sheppard couldn't cover anyone last year. He didn't even start against the Colts because Peyton abused him a few weeks earlier. Cromartie is perfect for the Jets system, he's a cover corner and one of the best. Chargers played zone coverage because they couldn't get any pressure last year. Cromartie has his issues, but to say that Cromartie isn't an upgrade over Lito Sheppard is insanity.

I won't even discuss Kerry Rhodes. I would rather have a corpse playing safety on the Jets then Kerry Rhodes. Jenkins has a 360 pound weight clause in his contract. His injury last year had nothing to do with his weight, Shaun Ellis fell on his knee. And the Jets did get to the AFC championship game without Jenkins and Washington so getting them back will only improve the team. I know I know, they didn't deserve to make it to the AFC championship game, those other teams didn't try.

The Jets improved their running game by getting rid of Thomas Jones. KC will enjoy his 3.7 ypc behind that s$itbox offensive line. Lito Sheppard couldn't cover a blind man and Kerry Rhodes cared more about being seen on TV then making plays. Personally for 2010 I would prefer Tomlinson, cromartie and the combination of Pool and Eric Smith playing safety.

I'm sure Sanchez won't have learned anything from playing in 3 road playoff games and spending the entire off season watching film with his offensive coordinator and coach. As long as he's 100% by training camp nothing else really matters.

The Jets defense is only going to get better with a year of Rex figuring out who his guys are and who aren't his guys. Sanchez will only improve going into his 2nd season as an NFL QB. He couldn't have played much worse in a handful of games.

As I've said before, the Patriots are still the team to beat in the division because of Brady. He's one of the top qb's of all time and he's still in his prime and the division still goes through Brady. But for any of you that want to blindly hate the Jets and not be a little concerned with what they've done the last 4 years just doesn't make any sense.

 

[JSn]

The trouble with some of the Jets moves is that they are band-aids and they aren't a long-term solution. Will you have a real, durable NT this year?

 

[Mangold74]

The trouble with some of the Jets moves is that they are band-aids and they aren't a long-term solution. Will you have a real, durable NT this year?

They had one last year in Pouha. The Jets don't play a true 3-4 defense where the nose tackle has to take on 2 blockers every play. Jenkins will be back along with Pouha. Their defensive line was not a problem last year.

 

[Rob0729]

1) 4) Thomas Jones was a product of the Jets line.

The Jets line is so good that Jones was a great RB before Ferguson, Mangold, Faneca, and Woody because he knew that those guys would eventually block for him. You do realize that last year was Jones' fifth consecutive year of 1,100 or more yards and he has has had 1,200 or more yards for four of those 5. And he was only a Jet for three of those years and the Jets line as constituted today has only been together for two of those years. In fact, his second most yards in a season over the last five years was with the Bears (in 2005, he had 1335 yards and 9 TDs). That's how great the Jets line is that they made him a good on other teams before he even became a Jet.

That's how misinformed the Jets fans are about their own players. They need to be schooled on their own players (or former players) by people who have had no vested interest in the player whatsover.