OT: Bears crumbling, paving way for Jimmy G?

[Username]

Breer says Cleveland (their 2nd round 1 pick) and the Saints are both candidates for offering a first rounder...

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Breer says Cleveland (their 2nd round 1 pick) and the Saints are both candidates for offering a first rounder...

I think Cleveland had two first and two second rounders.

Seems like bb could extract a nice price for jimmy g from Cleveland.

 

[AHoodieWorshipperInParis]

I think Cleveland had two first and two second rounders.

Seems like bb could extract a nice price for jimmy g from Cleveland.

Just like he did for Jamie Collins ? #ClevelandMcDucks

 

[The Gr8est]

Just like he did for Jamie Collins ? #ClevelandMcDucks

So who was offering more for Collins?

 

[BelichickFan]

Wouldn't combine measurements have resolved that?

It did. He's 6'2 1/8". Rob changed the subject when that was pointed out.

 

[Ivan]

Just like he did for Jamie Collins ? #ClevelandMcDucks

No, like he did for Cassell.

Or how about Randy Moss, he traded a fourth round pick for him, got a couple of HOF caliber seasons out of him and then traded him to Minnesota for a third when he was toast. People can act like Belichick is an idiot all they want but they just look like fools doing itS

 

[AHoodieWorshipperInParis]

No, like he did for Cassell.

Or how about Randy Moss, he traded a fourth round pick for him, got a couple of HOF caliber seasons out of him and then traded him to Minnesota for a third when he was toast. People can act like Belichick is an idiot all they want but they just look like fools doing itS

I was not questioning Bill's supreme intelligence and i would never do that (there is one reason why my pyjama is a cut-off hoodie ), just expressing my disappointment in Cleveland's unwillingness to simply give us their original 3rd rounder, for a young probowler regarded as one of their future defensive cornerstones after all. I felt a little bit of a disrespect in this comp pick story. The fact is they are aggressive and pretty efficient in stockpilling all those draft assets... thank God they proved to be terrible in using them properly to build through the draft, otherwise they would have a championship-caliber roster at this point.

The bottom line is we would never get the kind of compensation we expect for Jimmy from the greedy Browns.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Out of those 3, I'd say Jimmy G looks like the best option.

Cousins didn't look that impressive against the Cowboys and there will be a big free agent bidding war to sign him, so why would he choose to go to one of the worst teams?

Tony Romo is old and injury prone.

Jimmy G can be franchise tagged if necessary.

If we get a top 5 pick for Jimmy G, I will be more than happy to drive him to the airport myself.

He deserves to start at this stage of his career anyways. I doubt he is content to stay and be a backup another 3-4 years as Brady's avocado ice cream keeps him looking young and strong!

Kirk Cousins, Tony Romo and Jimmy G make this an embarrassment of riches for QB hungry teams. I would worry it knocks the value down for all of them but QBs are too valuable.

The draft has no QB worth getting imo and a lot of teams feel that way.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I really do not see Brady going from mvp to scrub in one season.

The only way Brady's production starts to slip is if the o line sucks.

Brady's game has always been built around smarts and exploiting match ups and not about his running or firing bullet passes.

 

[Deus Irae]

Cousins didn't look that impressive against the Cowboys

????

 

[Ivan]

I was not questioning Bill's supreme intelligence and i would never do that (there is one reason why my pyjama is a cut-off hoodie ), just expressing my disappointment in Cleveland's unwillingness to simply give us their original 3rd rounder, for a young probowler regarded as one of their future defensive cornerstones after all. I felt a little bit of a disrespect in this comp pick story. The fact is they are aggressive and pretty efficient in stockpilling all those draft assets... thank God they proved to be terrible in using them properly to build through the draft, otherwise they would have a championship-caliber roster at this point.

The bottom line is we would never get the kind of compensation we expect for Jimmy from the greedy Browns.

Collins is a 8 game rental in terms of trade value so expecting more than what they got is unrealistic, and if you use the same formula that is used when delaying a pick for a year they actually did get Clevelands 3rd. When a team trades for a pick in the following draft instead of the upcoming draft it loses a round in trade value, e.g. When the Raiders gave the Patriots their first for Seymour it was considered a 2nd by everyone, including football executives, because it was delayed a year. Using that formula it is reasonable to consider the pick they got for Collins to be a round higher because they get it a year earlier than they would have had he left in free agency. As for Collins I think he and a number of other Patriot players started prioritizing their free agency and health over their play this season, just as Talib did his last two AFCCG's as a Patriot, and I think that had the potential to ruin the Patriots season. I think guys like Collins and Sheard became preoccupied with sack numbers and unwilling to play hard against the run out of fear of injury and ruining a big payday so Belichick had to take dramatic action. I think some blame can be put on Belichick for failing to anticipate this could become a problem with so many impending free agents but once it started manifesting in their play he had little choice but to take action. I do believe the reports they were going to turn Collins into a situational player against the pass and believe Collins wanted no part of that, thus the trade. Imo something similar has been going on with Sheard but they may have gotten through to him in time to save his season.

 

[Ivan]

We all love JG. Most of us do, anyway. But you have the "problem" that Brady looks like he'll play more than 2 more years and JG will move on in no more than 2 years. A year and a few months, in fact. Unless Brady changes his mind, suffers a bad injury or the Patriots trade him, it doesn't matter what you think of JG. As much as he probably appreciates it, loving him isn't enough.

I agree, however this is also why they will hold out for whatever Belichick deems Garrapolo's real value to be. First they will rule out a team like the Jets because they won't trade him in division, and the Broncos because they won't trade him to an immediate contender for the AFC, so that will limit the trading partners to some degree, but after that it will simply come down to their price, which if Lombardi is right was already set by the Bradford trade. Imo if a team like the Bears will give them a top ten pick they will make the deal, but if the first rounder is in the second half of the first round they will want a second or third,possibly delayed a year, as part of the deal, and if Cleveland offered their first it would be done in a heartbeat and we would all get the last laugh as 31 heads as well as those of their fans would explode. If teams don't meet this price I see Belichick holding firm and keeping Garrapolo through the end of his deal, and as outrageous as it now seems possibly even franchising him and taking the huge cap hit. We may even see him keep the cap space in this coming season so he can roll it over into Garrapolos contract year and minimize the impact of it. And now that I think of that I think that may well be his long term approach to the issue. Save 15 million to roll over in the coming free agency and then use it to franchise Garrapolo, it provides them with great security and would force two firsts from any team desperate enough to cough them up.

 

[aluminum seats]

I agree, however this is also why they will hold out for whatever Belichick deems Garrapolo's real value to be. First they will rule out a team like the Jets because they won't trade him in division, and the Broncos because they won't trade him to an immediate contender for the AFC, so that will limit the trading partners to some degree, but after that it will simply come down to their price, which if Lombardi is right was already set by the Bradford trade. Imo if a team like the Bears will give them a top ten pick they will make the deal, but if the first rounder is in the second half of the first round they will want a second or third,possibly delayed a year, as part of the deal, and if Cleveland offered their first it would be done in a heartbeat and we would all get the last laugh as 31 heads as well as those of their fans would explode. If teams don't meet this price I see Belichick holding firm and keeping Garrapolo through the end of his deal, and as outrageous as it now seems possibly even franchising him and taking the huge cap hit. We may even see him keep the cap space in this coming season so he can roll it over into Garrapolos contract year and minimize the impact of it. And now that I think of that I think that may well be his long term approach to the issue. Save 15 million to roll over in the coming free agency and then use it to franchise Garrapolo, it provides them with great security and would force two firsts from any team desperate enough to cough them up.

Use paragraphs, dude.

 

[patsfan13]

Not if you want this team to go thru the dark ages post brady

Brissett may be better than Jimmy G in a couple of years.

 

[aluminum seats]

Brissett may be better than Jimmy G in a couple of years.

Don't see it.

Actually, for what it's worth, which is very little, I've recently had the thought that the Pats will be keeping JG. Not based on anything in particular, just a feeling.

Thought it was important that I keep everyone informed on my thoughts on the subject.

 

[AHoodieWorshipperInParis]

Collins is a 8 game rental in terms of trade value so expecting more than what they got is unrealistic, and if you use the same formula that is used when delaying a pick for a year they actually did get Clevelands 3rd. When a team trades for a pick in the following draft instead of the upcoming draft it loses a round in trade value, e.g. When the Raiders gave the Patriots their first for Seymour it was considered a 2nd by everyone, including football executives, because it was delayed a year. Using that formula it is reasonable to consider the pick they got for Collins to be a round higher because they get it a year earlier than they would have had he left in free agency. As for Collins I think he and a number of other Patriot players started prioritizing their free agency and health over their play this season, just as Talib did his last two AFCCG's as a Patriot, and I think that had the potential to ruin the Patriots season. I think guys like Collins and Sheard became preoccupied with sack numbers and unwilling to play hard against the run out of fear of injury and ruining a big payday so Belichick had to take dramatic action. I think some blame can be put on Belichick for failing to anticipate this could become a problem with so many impending free agents but once it started manifesting in their play he had little choice but to take action. I do believe the reports they were going to turn Collins into a situational player against the pass and believe Collins wanted no part of that, thus the trade. Imo something similar has been going on with Sheard but they may have gotten through to him in time to save his season.

Good point. They get thier 3rd comp pick in the #100 range one year earlier (provided Alex Mack stays healthy in Atlanta) + some flexibility in the next FA as they could elect not to play the comp pick game if they like one of those top impending free agents. But still, from the Browns perspective, this move is regarded as a huge steal. They smartly took advantage of the Patriots situation (in a hurry for a deadline trade to part ways with a "locker room cancer"). It may be a 1/2 season rental, but technically they own control on Jamie's contract for 2 1/2 seasons (As players can be franchised twice) and they reportedly talked with the player's agents about a possible extension before making the deal (they have more than enough cap space to get it done). By the way, considering that Hue Jackson said he's OK with players freelancing + Jamie's mindset that seems to fit in well with the quiet, "more-of-a-family-feel" Browns environment, I would be shocked if Jamie Collins is not a Cleveland Brown in 2017. Even if he's fooling the Browns and doesn't intend to stay there, he needs more than the five games remaining to reestablish his value, so he would benefit greatly from this franchise tag year.

 

[Ivan]

Good point. They get thier 3rd comp pick in the #100 range one year earlier (provided Alex Mack stays healthy in Atlanta) + some flexibility in the next FA as they could elect not to play the comp pick game if they like one of those top impending free agents. But still, from the Browns perspective, this move is regarded as a huge steal. They smartly took advantage of the Patriots situation (in a hurry for a deadline trade to part ways with a "locker room cancer"). It may be a 1/2 season rental, but technically they own control on Jamie's contract for 2 1/2 seasons (As players can be franchised twice) and they reportedly talked with the player's agents about a possible extension before making the deal (they have more than enough cap space to get it done). By the way, considering that Hue Jackson said he's OK with players freelancing + Jamie's mindset that seems to fit in well with the quiet, "more-of-a-family-feel" Browns environment, I would be shocked if Jamie Collins is not a Cleveland Brown in 2017. Even if he's fooling the Browns and doesn't intend to stay there, he needs more than the five games remaining to reestablish his value, so he would benefit greatly from this franchise tag year.

I think the "freelancing" stuff has been greatly misinterpreted. It's OK for great players who do intense film study to go off of cues they pick up and take chances provided it's an educated guess and they let teammates know to cover their ass, it's another story altogether when players disregard their responsibilities to go after the QB and big plays occur as a result. I think Collins was the latter and concern about injury Limited him against the run, but that's just speculation in my part, however I can definitely see where making him a part time player could have detrimental repercussions in the locker room and practice

 

[luuked]

I really do not see Brady going from mvp to scrub in one season.

The only way Brady's production starts to slip is if the o line sucks.

Brady's game has always been built around smarts and exploiting match ups and not about his running or firing bullet passes.

The obvious issue is not a rapid decline but simply an injury. Looking how lucky Brady has been since the ACL to avoid really major injuries despite the pounding he has been taking it is not unreasonable to assume that this luck could run out at any given snap.

One broken leg, separate shoulder or ligament damage and his career with the Pats could be done.

 

[The Gr8est]

If there are no QBs in the draft who look like franchise QBs, and the available veterans are Cousins, Romo, and Jimmy, I think the Pats will make out like bandits if they decide to trade Jimmy.

Other posters have made the point that it is quite possible that BB has decided to try and keep Jimmy, and may have created the cap space to make it possible.

There are far more than three other teams looking for a QB upgrade, so it will be a sellers market for teams liking Jimmy. Even if the Pats are willing to trade Jimmy, it isn't a case where the Pats will just have to accept the best deal they can find, like it appears was the case with Collins, since it looks like BB was intent on getting Collins off of the team, whereas all indications are that they really like Jimmy.

Romo only makes sense to a team who are a QB away from being a SB contender next year, and that better be a team that can protect him since he is so fragile, which is ironic since the Cowboys have the best OL in the NFL* and good receiving targets in Witten and Bryant, if they can't protect him who can?

In any event, Romo is only stopgap for anyone.

There are mixed opinions on Cousins, but Washington is likely to franchise him anyway.

So that leaves Jimmy, a young, potential franchise QB, who the Pats like, and may not want to trade anyway.

That does NOT scream "bargain".

 

[Ivan]

Washington really has to pay Cousins or let him walk, franchising him for top five money overall makes no sense.

Romo may well be done, he can't stay healthy.

Garrapolo will cost a team a high price as I think Belichick is fine with keeping him around through 2017.