Oliver's agent...

[BelichickFan]

So far no one has offered us a first for Asante, whom everyone says is a top five CB.

Do we know that or are you assuming that we would have traded him if so ? I've not read anywhere that no-one has been willing to offer that, I've read that the Patriots are sticking to the unreasonable compensation of two #1s for a Franchised signee.

 

[arrellbee]

That is all I found as well. You would think there would be a page with the rules of the supplemental draft on NFL.com.

LOL. They won't even put the standard rule book on their site. I presume it's a deliberate decision on the NFL's part to leave fans in the total dark about so many of the mechanics of the NFL operation. But, in my opinion, that's a frustrating and rotten way to treat the fans.

 

[dryheat44]

Actually, no. From what I read, you are saying that the fact that the Pats have the Raiders 3rd round pick doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the supplemental draft. I disagree. I believe that it does.

Also, according to Brandt, there are 3 ways the NFL has determined the order for the supplemental draft. The 1st way was every teams name was put into a hat and drawn out. The second way (as stated in his 2003 article) was the previous year's draft order. And the 3rd way, based on the 2006 article, was that there are now 3 tiers (as you said). What I don't see, one way or the other, is that its strictly based on the TEAMS and not on the PICKS. Neither the Brandt article nor the about.com article imply anything either way.

Yes, your first statement has my position right. While the pick is available for the Patriots to forfeit, I do not see, as Mike Reiss does, how it gives the Patriots the right to jump into the Raiders priority slot for the third round. If I read the tier system correctly, and assuming the percentages hold in the lottery(ties broken alphabetically), the NFL Priority list will be:

Tier 1:
1. Oakland
2. Detroit
3. Cleveland
4. Tampa Bay
5. Arizona
6. Washington
7. Houston
8. Miami
9. Minnesota

Tier 2:
10. Atlanta
11. Buffalo
12. San Francisco
13. Carolina
14. Cincinnati
15. Green Bay
16. Jacksonville
17. Pittsburgh
18. St. Louis
19. Tennessee
20. Denver

Tier 3:
21. New York Giants
22. Dallas
23. Kansas City
24. Seattle
25. New Orleans
26. New York Jets
27. Philadelphia
28. Indianapolis
29. New England
30. Baltimore
31. Chicago
32. San Diego

This is the order for the entire supplemental draft...it doesn't change depending on what round is bid. We're together right now, yes?

From what has been linked to this thread, each team then has the option of delivering a secret bid to the commissioners office, and here's where we diverge as far as I can tell: According to everything I've read, each team has delivered a list of desired players to the commissioner's office, along with which round they want to draft them in. The commissioner then sorts each bid by player. For the sake of simplicity, let's say Oliver is the only player who any team wants to spend a draft choice on. Whichever team has bid the highest round for Oliver is awarded him. If multiple teams bid the same round, the team with the highest priority gets him. This is what has been written, and if we're assuming the authors of the articles are correct, this is the process. This seems cut and dried. If the Patriots and four other teams bid a third round pick on Oliver, the team with the highest priority ranking gets him. Oakland can't bid round three. The Patriots can. That doesn't mean the Patriots can bid round three with the Raiders priority number.

Now, where there is room for some confusion, is that while it isn't mentioned, it's possible that the authors of these articles have assumed that there has been no trading, and that each team owns their original pick in the third round of next year's draft, as BelichickFan mentioned a few pages ago. If that's case, maybe the teams do not bid the round they want to draft the player, but instead indicate the draft position they wish to use. Not only are we assuming the authors' assumption in this case, it really doesn't make sense, since we don't know the 2008 draft order yet, and it's possible that the Raiders pick will be after the Patriots pick in the third round.

The only other possibility is that each team who has acquired a pick with another team take over their priority ranking for each particular round, which I believe is the way you believe it is. That seems way too complicated to be reasonable, as there would need to be seven different priority lists drawn up for the draft, possibly necessitating seven different lotteries to be help for each tier.

 

[dryheat44]

He also ran in the 4.50-4.58 range today, so he might not go so high after all.

 

[mgcolby]

Here is Reiss's reply to my email.

Thanks for the email. Probably the best thing I can do is forward the email I received from the league when I asked the question if the Patriots can use the Raiders pick:

"A club may exercise a selection in the supplemental draft as long as it owns the unconditional rights to the pick (key there is "unconditional"). So if the Patriots do indeed own the rights to Oakland's third-round pick in next year's draft, they may exercise it in this year's supplemental if they so chose. The resulting lost pick in next year's draft would be based on the order of finish in the 07 regular season."

It is my understanding that a team with two picks in one round would have to specify before the draft which pick it intends to use -- the higher pick or the lower one. Since the supplemental draft is done via email, this is the only way I can see it being done.

Hope this helps. Patsfans is a super place to talk Pats, or simply read threads to hear what fans are talking about.

 

[kriskanos]

Reiss is reporting Oliver ran a 4.56 and a 4.59

 

[kriskanos]

I'm glad now his stock shouldnt skyrocket,and we can get him relatively cheap.I am not a big believer in workout warriors.Give me game speed anyday.Heres the stat I care about. Calvin Johnson 2 catches...Nuff said

 

[reflexblue]

Curious when WAS the last time the pats grabbed someone from the supplamental draft under Belichick?

 

[mgcolby]

Curious when WAS the last time the pats grabbed someone from the supplamental draft under Belichick?

There wasn't a last time. J'rod Cherry was the only player ever selected by the Patriots in the supplemental draft ('99).

Just curious what is your point?

 

[spacecrime]

There wasn't a last time. J'rod Cherry was the only player ever selected by the Patriots in the supplemental draft ('99).

Just curious what is your point?

Probably that this isn't a thing that BB does a lot, unlike draft day trades, which he does do a lot.

As I understand it, very few teams make a stab at picking up guys in the supplemental draft.

I can see why. The timing is awkward.

 

[BelichickFan]

Curious when WAS the last time the pats grabbed someone from the supplamental draft under Belichick?

Very few players are taken, it's not much of a statistic - plus the way it's run we never know if the Patriots bid a pick or not.

 

[Remix 6]

if u guys think BB doesnt get supplemental players..ask yourself. How many have other teams picked? Not many people take part in supplemental drafts..its usually 3-4 players.

 

[spacecrime]

LOL. They won't even put the standard rule book on their site. I presume it's a deliberate decision on the NFL's part to leave fans in the total dark about so many of the mechanics of the NFL operation. But, in my opinion, that's a frustrating and rotten way to treat the fans.

Most fans don't care. If teh Pats select a guy in the supplemental draft, 99 out of a hundred fans will say, "I thought the draft was over."

This forum is the exception. We have no other lives, so we try to predict beforehand the number and round of compensatory picks, and argue reasonably intelligently about things that Lenny P and John Clayton would have to look up, like what are the cap ramifications if Troy Brown is signed with the team in July, becomes a coach in September, and re-signs with the team in November.

 

[mgcolby]

Probably that this isn't a thing that BB does a lot, unlike draft day trades, which he does do a lot.

As I understand it, very few teams make a stab at picking up guys in the supplemental draft.

I can see why. The timing is awkward.

I figured as much, I just figured I would give him a chance to clearify it before I went into things like - When was the last time (prior 2006) did the Pats draft a RB in the 1st round under BB?

 

[dryheat44]

Originally Posted by Reiss
Thanks for the email. Probably the best thing I can do is forward the email I received from the league when I asked the question if the Patriots can use the Raiders pick:

"A club may exercise a selection in the supplemental draft as long as it owns the unconditional rights to the pick (key there is "unconditional"). So if the Patriots do indeed own the rights to Oakland's third-round pick in next year's draft, they may exercise it in this year's supplemental if they so chose. The resulting lost pick in next year's draft would be based on the order of finish in the 07 regular season."

It is my understanding that a team with two picks in one round would have to specify before the draft which pick it intends to use -- the higher pick or the lower one. Since the supplemental draft is done via email, this is the only way I can see it being done

mgc, thanks for taking the initiative and going to the source. Now I'm even more certain that he's misinterpreting. The league says "unconditional rights" because it's possible that a team trades its pick and picks up another. It's not in there for multiple picks. And a team like the Patriots can't specify which pick it's going to use, because the 2008 draft order isn't set yet, so nobody knows which pick is going to be higher.

 

[CrayzeeNepFan1]

I say bring him on but for the most a 3rd round pick more depth to the backfield especially if they decide to let assante go next year cause he will play this one is always welcomed.

 

[spacecrime]

I figured as much, I just figured I would give him a chance to clearify it before I went into things like - When was the last time (prior 2006) did the Pats draft a RB in the 1st round under BB?

Not quite the same. The pats have only had a few first round picks under BB, so it isn't surprising that any given position hasn't yet been drafted in the first round. But he has drafted all positions in rounds 1-7, hasn't he? He has had chances aboukt every year to draft someone in the supplemental draft and hasn't drafted ANYONE in ANY ROUND.

That is more significant, I think, than the fact that he has drafted RBs in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and seventh rounds, but not the sixth.

None of it means anything. If he likes the guy, and feels the last draft left the Pats exposed, or if he really likes the kid, or whatever, he can always put in a bid.

I just don't see why everyone is going ga-ga over the guy, and assuming it will take a second round pick to get him, and why everyone thinks the Pats are interested. From the Herald:

"... agent Jason Chayut said yesterday that he would imagine someone from all 32 teams will be at today’s Pro Day workout, though he hasn’t heard yet from the Patriots. Similarly, Bulldogs director of strength and conditioning David Van Halanger talked to approximately 12 teams about Oliver, but not the Pats."

 

[mgcolby]

Not quite the same. The pats have only had a few first round picks under BB, so it isn't surprising that any given position hasn't yet been drafted in the first round. But he has drafted all positions in rounds 1-7, hasn't he? He has had chances aboukt every year to draft someone in the supplemental draft and hasn't drafted ANYONE in ANY ROUND.

That is more significant, I think, than the fact that he has drafted RBs in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and seventh rounds, but not the sixth.

None of it means anything. If he likes the guy, and feels the last draft left the Pats exposed, or if he really likes the kid, or whatever, he can always put in a bid.

I just don't see why everyone is going ga-ga over the guy, and assuming it will take a second round pick to get him, and why everyone thinks the Pats are interested. From the Herald:

"... agent Jason Chayut said yesterday that he would imagine someone from all 32 teams will be at today’s Pro Day workout, though he hasn’t heard yet from the Patriots. Similarly, Bulldogs director of strength and conditioning David Van Halanger talked to approximately 12 teams about Oliver, but not the Pats."

I honestly don't know to much about him and I wouldn't be excited or dissapointed regardless of the outcome. I was more intrigued by the fact that there was no clear cut answer available for the situation (at least that we could find).

My only point was that just because BB hasn't picked someone in the supplemental draft doesn't mean he wouldn't or hasn't tried. So in this instance using the past, doesn't support the point that we both think he was trying to make. Thats all I was trying to get across.

 

[patpatriot]

This kid is about the same size and speed as the CB from Cal (Hughes?) that the Colts took in Round 3 this year. Sounds like he's safety material! That said, what are the chances of a rookie CB/safety with ordinary numbers getting a slot on this year club? On the other hand, All-SEC means something and Georgia is a favored Pats school. If the Pats are going to bid at all, I'll bet they don't propose any more than their own 3rd rounder.

 

[kriskanos]

mgc, thanks for taking the initiative and going to the source. Now I'm even more certain that he's misinterpreting. The league says "unconditional rights" because it's possible that a team trades its pick and picks up another. It's not in there for multiple picks. And a team like the Patriots can't specify which pick it's going to use, because the 2008 draft order isn't set yet, so nobody knows which pick is going to be higher.

I am not trying to be rude but I feel you are kinda dense.Supplemental draft order is not determined by the next years record(how the hell would that work?Kreskin?)It costs you next years pick but its based on last years record in a 3 tiered system.Doing Da Doing.