Ohrnberger a Bust ?

[crowell33]

The Pats have had more luck with undrafted folks such as Connelly and Wendell -- not much with late round OL picks. Last year though both their late round OLmen were cut but ended up making the full squads of other teams.

Sounds right to me. When Cannon is cleared ( he claims he'll be ready for the first day of camp ), Mankins & Connolly are the day one starters with Wendell and Cannon ( as he recovers ) the backups. Not sure how Ohrnberger makes this squad.

This is even assuming that the Pats don't bring in a free agent or another undrafted free agent as well.

 

[DaBruinz]

If memory serves the Pats traded Kickoff returner and starting CB Ellis Hobbs to the Eagles for a fifth round pick. They then promptly traded that fifth round pick along with their own fifth rounder, to get up into the fourth round to take Ohrnberger in the 2009 draft.

After the conclusion of Ohrnberger's second training camp last summer, he was cut on September 4th, 2010. No team in the NFL put in a waiver claim for him. Recall this was while Mankins was a holdout and the Pats were looking for Guard help. Ohrnberger was later resigned but was buried on the OG depth chart behind Undrafted OG Dan Connolly and Undrafted OG Ryan Wendell.

Is this guy a bust ?

The trade was for two fifth round picks. And, by definition, a 5th round pick can't be a bust.

That being said, Ohrnberger was a 4th round pick, not a 5th. The 5th round picks (137 and 141) were traded for numbers 123 and 198.

As a 4th round pick, Ohrnberger hasn't panned out, yet. But Lets also remember that the Pats had acquired Ojinnaka who was an OT/OG. Which, as you said, buried Ohrnberger on the depth chart.

This is Ohrnberger's 3rd year with the team. This is the make or break year, imho. Just because he was cut doesn't mean that the Pats don't value him. He had Practice Squad options remaining. Which is why the Pats signed him to it.

 

[DaBruinz]

I would call him a bust because of what the Patriots have invested in him and what he has returned.

Foremost is that they elected to keep him on the roster and let Ted Larsen go.

Secondly, it was reported that the Patriots traded Hobbs to Philly specifically so they could package the fifth round picks for Ohrnberger.

Lastly they have devoted two seasons to develop him in a position for which they have had known needs with Neal aging and Mankins contract coming due. Eye witness reports of his progress are less than positive.

Could you please cite your sources for the Pats tradings Hobbs to get the Picks to get Ohrnberger?

Could you also cite your sources of "eyewitness reports"?

 

[DaBruinz]

No, it's not. You're using a freak injury to define a trade. I'm using the established game of Hobbs in comparison with the career, to date, of Ohrnberger. It was a bad trade.

Trades are defined by what the players do for the respective teams AFTER the trade occurs. Not by what the player did before the trade. To ignore that Hobbs only played in 16 games over 2 seasons before retiring is just silly.

This trade really didn't work out for either team. Ingram started off well, but has since bounced to 2 other teams. Ohnrberger is on what should be his final attempt with the pats.

My highest expectation now is him making the team as a reserve interior lineman. My lowest is him getting cut. Either way, i won't lose sleep over it.

 

[DaBruinz]

You seem confused. The fact is that a fourth rounder was cut after his second season training camp and none of the other 31 teams wanted to claim him.

I read all the other posts on this thread looking for a poster who said that a draftee has to be "basically first year pro-bowl or a-hole", as you claimed. No other poster said anything even remotely close to that.

If Ohrnberger was a bust, do you really think that BB would have signed him back to the Practie Squad? Just because the other "31 teams didn't want him" doesn't make him a bust. That just means that, at the time, they felt their rosters were set. Nothing more.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think what we have here is in fact 2 bad things. First, that we devalued Hobbs to a point where we let him go for a 5th round pick. Maybe he wasnt worth the 3rd we used to draft him, but he was a servicable nickle back and a dynamic ST weapon. Now add in the problem that we overvalued and traded up for Orny. He was drafted in a typical spot for a G/C that STARTS in the league at some point in his career. First and second round picks are rarely used on G/C. The fact that Dante obviously ok'd the pick and couldnt develop him is telling me that YES in fact he is a bust. But our cupboard is so thin at G he is still here. Now why didnt we pick up Moffitt instead of Mallett???

The Pats didn't "let him go for a 5th round pick". It was TWO fifth round picks. Which they turned into a 4th and 6th.

One item you forgot to mention is that Hobbs had been injury prone with the Pats and that Hobbs was in the last year of his contract.

The Pats didn't pick up Moffitt because they clearly didn't have him valued as a 3rd round pick, which is where Mallett was chosen. OH, and another thing, Moffitt was off the board when Mallett was drafted.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think what we have here is in fact 2 bad things. First, that we devalued Hobbs to a point where we let him go for a 5th round pick. Maybe he wasnt worth the 3rd we used to draft him, but he was a servicable nickle back and a dynamic ST weapon. Now add in the problem that we overvalued and traded up for Orny. He was drafted in a typical spot for a G/C that STARTS in the league at some point in his career. First and second round picks are rarely used on G/C. The fact that Dante obviously ok'd the pick and couldnt develop him is telling me that YES in fact he is a bust. But our cupboard is so thin at G he is still here. Now why didnt we pick up Moffitt instead of Mallett???

It wasn't that he wasn't worth the 3rd that they used to draft him. It was that the remaining time on his contract wasn't worth it. He was in his final year, and therefore was worth much less.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

Ellis Hobbs was our best corner and would have dramatically improved the 2009 team. Bodden had an alright season but was still not as good as Hobbs and the others were of course awful. Ohrnberger, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing.

I agree that it's hard to call a 5th round pick a bust, but considering what the Pats gave up, it was at the very least an awful trade.

 

[RayClay]

This is all silly. Mankins has yet to sign long term and they are going to force as much competition for the guard spots as possible, let the best win. It's who learns and improves.

I don't think they feel like paying Mankins a huge contract then letting him go, so they will likely trade him or sign him IMO. I suppose he could play for big money, then get free like he wants, who knows?

The point is, they've never paid anything for guards before Mankins and likely have more raw material options than ever at the position now. Remember Neal wasn't even a football player.

 

[RayClay]

Ellis Hobbs was our best corner and would have dramatically improved the 2009 team. Bodden had an alright season but was still not as good as Hobbs and the others were of course awful. Ohrnberger, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing.

I agree that it's hard to call a 5th round pick a bust, but considering what the Pats gave up, it was at the very least an awful trade.

Obviously BB disagreed with you. If you think he gave up on a player he wanted for the future because he just had to have more 5th round picks, I've got some Everglades property for you.

Hobbs was in the last year of his contract.

One possibility. The only purpose of a draft pick is it might land you a player you want. If you have a player you want that you can possibly sign, you would never trade them for a pick.

Richard Seymour attracted what might have been a very high 1st, yet the Patriots did not trade him because they wanted a pick. They traded him because they foresaw a contentious battle over a huge contract and they needed to sign Brady and Wilfork.

Had Seymour been younger, pre injuries, they wouldn't have traded him for any pick. they would have gone all out to sign him, as they did previous.

Any time a team trades a player for a pick, they have a problem with paying that player long term, or the value, or fit of that player, period. Then they make the best deal.

 

[TheComeback]

Ellis Hobbs was our best corner and would have dramatically improved the 2009 team. Bodden had an alright season but was still not as good as Hobbs and the others were of course awful. Ohrnberger, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing.

I agree that it's hard to call a 5th round pick a bust, but considering what the Pats gave up, it was at the very least an awful trade.

Haha, Hobbs was a better player than Bodden? You've gotta be kidding me.

I was a Hobbs fan when he was here, but he definitely wasn't better than Bodden.

 

[crowell33]

Ellis Hobbs was our best corner and would have dramatically improved the 2009 team. Bodden had an alright season but was still not as good as Hobbs and the others were of course awful. Ohrnberger, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing.

I agree that it's hard to call a 5th round pick a bust, but considering what the Pats gave up, it was at the very least an awful trade.

Ohrnberger was a fourth round pick.

 

[captain stone]

If memory serves the Pats traded Kickoff returner and starting CB Ellis Hobbs to the Eagles for a fifth round pick. They then promptly traded that fifth round pick along with their own fifth rounder, to get up into the fourth round to take Ohrnberger in the 2009 draft.

After the conclusion of Ohrnberger's second training camp last summer, he was cut on September 4th, 2010. No team in the NFL put in a waiver claim for him. Recall this was while Mankins was a holdout and the Pats were looking for Guard help. Ohrnberger was later resigned but was buried on the OG depth chart behind Undrafted OG Dan Connolly and Undrafted OG Ryan Wendell.

Is this guy a bust ?

In the words of Severus Snape: Ob...viously.

 

[Ring 6]

Ellis Hobbs was our best corner and would have dramatically improved the 2009 team. Bodden had an alright season but was still not as good as Hobbs and the others were of course awful. Ohrnberger, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing.

I agree that it's hard to call a 5th round pick a bust, but considering what the Pats gave up, it was at the very least an awful trade.

Bodden in 2009 was far, far better than Hobbs. It wasn't even close. Not even an argument that can be reasonably made.

 

[TomPatriot]

Hobbs played 16 games over two years (starting 7) and then retired. It's hard to say the deal was particularly bad.

There was one bad thing about the deal - Hobbs.

 

[TomPatriot]

Ellis Hobbs was our best corner and would have dramatically improved the 2009 team. Bodden had an alright season but was still not as good as Hobbs and the others were of course awful. Ohrnberger, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing.

I agree that it's hard to call a 5th round pick a bust, but considering what the Pats gave up, it was at the very least an awful trade.

Ellis Hobbs was an awful man corner and mediocre at best as a cover 2 corner. He had no burst or recovery speed and never had a good feel for elite receivers. His instincts were never great. He could tackle but he was small.

Leigh Bodden is a very good cover two corner. He has good reaction and recovery skills, though he's not a shut down corner. His reads are pretty good. Ask Mark Sanchez. With his size he can play bigger WRs in ways Hobbs could only dream about. He was a big loss for the Pats last year.

 

[crowell33]

Ellis Hobbs was an awful man corner and mediocre at best as a cover 2 corner. He had no burst or recovery speed and never had a good feel for elite receivers. His instincts were never great. He could tackle but he was small.

Leigh Bodden is a very good cover two corner. He has good reaction and recovery skills, though he's not a shut down corner. His reads are pretty good. Ask Mark Sanchez. With his size he can play bigger WRs in ways Hobbs could only dream about. He was a big loss for the Pats last year.

I thought that Hobbs was a nice kickoff returner as well.