Official Patriots/Falcons Post Game Thread

[letekro]

You took the words right out of my 110% - I swear, I was just about to say virtually the exact same thing. If they hadn't made it, we would have heard endless comments like "You're in control of the game, your defense is playing well. What the heck were you thinking..?!?"

In fact, I bet some of the people in here saying how smart the decision was would be the first to levy the criticism.

Furthermore, some in here seem to think that the fact that the Patriots were in control of the game makes it a good decision. Quite the contrary: The fact that they were in control of the game is precisely why it was not a good decision.

Post Script: I notice no one has taken me up on my gentleman's bet. So even the people supporting the move know deep down that Belichick won't be doing it again.

What is the bet?

 

[JackBauer]

Your wasting your time with most of these guys..

I actually had one poster tell me I basically was fighting an up hill battle because some guy had 4000 posts.. heheheheh.. Same cat who didn't know Ngata is a DT/RDE..

It takes real skill to flaunt your ignorance so...

 

[realtime]

LOL.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read all day. A 3rd and a 5th for "the best NT in the game"?

Yeah, I don't think so. I'm glad you think because I think he's overrated, that means he's not overrated. Don't try to, you know, make an actual argument or anything. I wouldn't want you to strain yourself.

Are you serious?? The argument is that a player's trade value is a better measure of whether a player is overrated than your unsupported assertions. Unless you think the Jets got hosed by getting Jenkins for a 3rd and 5th, I don't know how you can say that Jenkins is overrated.

 

[italia44]

I was in favor of BB going for it on 4th down.It was unexpected and ballsy....most importantly,he didn't burn a TO to do it.Just make up your mind and go.

Ask yourself this question:same situation,Manning at home,Big Ben at home,Drew Brees at home.....what's your gut reaction?...............If you don't say:"sh-t,I wish they'd punt".......you're lying.

 

[Patspsycho]

One final comment on this....

Had the Pats not made the 1st and the Falcons take the lead and win the game the Patriots and in particular Bill Belichick are laughing stocks of the NFL this week. Many, many stories on WTF was Belichick thinking.

Again you are stubbornly looking at this play, along with wolfpack, in a vacuum, as if it were a 50/50 hit or miss play.

You have to understand that BB was looking at many factors before deciding to go for it. He knew the defense was lights out, he knew it was a 4th and a foot, and most of all, he knew the OL blocking was outstanding today.. those are all factors that add up to a decision that was a byproduct of a thought process that reduced the gambling to a minimum.

 

[mcsully]

It takes real skill to flaunt your ignorance so...

Your Ignorance is no defense..

 

[mcsully]

Are you serious?? The argument is that a player's trade value is a better measure of whether a player is overrated than your unsupported assertions. Unless you think the Jets got hosed by getting Jenkins for a 3rd and 5th, I don't know how you can say that Jenkins is overrated.

I couldn't agree with you anymore than those two words.. Sometimes I wonder if some of these guys even watch any other teams..


Its great to see the community in general go back and forth on conversations.. Unfortunately there are a few that come in and high jack these threads and blow smoke..

Your right in your assessment..

 

[102 Pat]

Thanks to the Pats for making the win a great way to end my birthday weekend! :singing::singing:

 

[ausbacker]

Your Ignorance is no defense..

I would have thought Ngata was a defensive tackle... and a darn good one at that.

 

[Wolfpack]

What is the bet?

I will bet we don't see it happen again a single time the rest of the season from any team so deep in their own end (including the Patriots) if I can be allowed two exceptions:

1) Obviously, teams that are losing late are in a different situation, and

2) A gadget play like a fake punt doesn't count.

Anyone want to take me up on the gentleman's bet?

 

[JackBauer]

Your Ignorance is no defense..

That makes no sense whatsoever. Thank you, come again.

 

[JackBauer]

Are you serious?? The argument is that a player's trade value is a better measure of whether a player is overrated than your unsupported assertions. Unless you think the Jets got hosed by getting Jenkins for a 3rd and 5th, I don't know how you can say that Jenkins is overrated.

Your argument is completely nonsensical. The Jet's didn't get hosed, but the terms of the trade don't have any bearing on whether Jenkins is overrated or not. That was the point I was making, and it still stands.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Thanks to the Pats for making the win a great way to end my birthday weekend! :singing::singing:

Obviously, this was a crucial factor in BB's decision making.

Seriously though: Happy birthday! :singing: :rocker:

 

[realtime]

Your argument is completely nonsensical. The Jet's didn't get hosed, but the terms of the trade don't have any bearing on whether Jenkins is overrated or not. That was the point I was making, and it still stands.

Please remind me what your point is and what the evidence for it is. You asked for evidence that Jenkins is not overrated. I gave you the most recent objective evidence of how Jenkins is viewed by GM's in the NFL. You have given me nothing but idiotic platitudes. Please give me some objective evidence (and by "objective" I mean something other than your say-so) that Jenkins is "overrated". Thanks in advance.

 

[JackBauer]

Please remind me what your point is and what the evidence for it is. You asked for evidence that Jenkins is not overrated. I gave you the most recent objective evidence of how Jenkins is viewed by GM's in the NFL. You have given me nothing but idiotic platitudes. Please give me some objective evidence (and by "objective" I mean something other than your say-so) that Jenkins is "overrated". Thanks in advance.

What you gave me in no way supports your claim that Jenkins is overrated. Incidentally, my claim is that Jenkins is overrated. Controversial, I know.

The fact that they gave a 3rd and a 5th for him doesn't mean anything. I'm somewhat baffled that since the Jet's gave a 3rd and 5th for him, you're somehow able to divine how he is viewed by "GM's in the NFL." That is some quality mind-reading on your part.

As for the case that he's overrated, there's the fact that a) he doesn't produce much statistically; b) he's not durable; c) pretty much every observer has noted that his motor tends to wear down and he can't maintain a high level of play over the course of a game/season.

Feel free to provide what you feel is the contravening evidence which would support the claim that Jenkins is the best NT in the NFL. "Thanks in advance."

 

[realtime]

What you gave me in no way supports your claim that Jenkins is overrated. Incidentally, my claim is that Jenkins is overrated. Controversial, I know.

The fact that they gave a 3rd and a 5th for him doesn't mean anything. I'm not sure why this is difficult for you to grasp.

As for the case that he's overrated, there's the fact that a) he doesn't produce much statistically; b) he's not durable; c) pretty much every observer has noted that his motor tends to wear down and he can't maintain a high level of play over the course of a game/season.

Feel free to provide what you feel is the contravening evidence which would support the claim that Jenkins is the best NT in the NFL. "Thanks in advance."

Ah...now I see why our exchanges have been an exercise in futility. You are not arguing that he is overrated per se. You are arguing that anyone who claims that he is the best NT in the NFL is overrating him. Big difference.

My point about the 3rd and 5th rounders relates to the former [i.e. how can someone who is indisuputably one of the key players on a good defense be overrated if he was traded within the last couple of years for a 3rd and a 5th round pick . . . if anything that suggests that he's underrated] and not the latter. I never claimed he was the best NT in the NFL.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I will bet we don't see it happen again a single time the rest of the season from any team so deep in their own end (including the Patriots) if I can be allowed two exceptions:

1) Obviously, teams that are losing late are in a different situation, and

2) A gadget play like a fake punt doesn't count.

Anyone want to take me up on the gentleman's bet?

I don't think we'll see it this season. For one reason, BB is probably the only guy with the stones to attempt it. For another reason, I hope we're always picking up our 3rd downs

But I bet someone does it over the next 2 to 3 years, because it makes a lot of sense in certain situations.

The Pats were one of the first teams (if not the first) to consistently go for it on 4th and short when on the opponent's side of the field and outside of field goal range. Now it's quite common to see everyone do it. Atlanta did this in the 1st half.

I also think Atlanta expected the team to go out there and try to catch them with an offsides penalty. That element of surprise won't be there next time.

There is the statistical side, but there's also the mental side, which you can see by reading the players quotes after the game. BB challenged his players, and the players responded. I don't think BB will ever have to challenge these guys again, at least I hope.

So I don't know if it will happen again. I certainly hope not. But the numbers suggest it wasn't a suicide squeeze; aggressiveness on 4th down will pay off in the long run. This was a bit of an extreme example, and it was a risk, but it was a calculated risk that made sense in numerous ways.

 

[maverick4]

I don't think we'll see it this season. For one reason, BB is probably the only guy with the stones to attempt it. For another reason, I hope we're always picking up our 3rd downs

Good post, welcome aboard.

Just curious though, if you are a converted Pats fan, what team did you root for before?

Are you also a Yankees, Canadians, and Lakers fan?

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Running game- It definitely picked up in this game where we were able to get what we wanted as far as yards. Fred Taylor should be the starting RB for us as he is able to hit a little crease and get 4 yards while carrying someone on his back. Goal line situations should automatically go to Taylor NOT a pass TAYLOR. I understand we don't want to wear him out and we should throw in a bit of Morris Maroney but primarily Taylor 20 carries a game sounds about right.

O-Line- Had one hell of a game and if I trashed them before for poor play I have to give them props when they have a game like they did yesterday. Brady had all day to pass, running game had holes to jump into. Light had a hell of a game against Abraham. BOTTOM LINE they wanted it more and that is the way it should be every week. I saw HUNGER. Great job. That Jets game might be the turning point.

Brady and WR's- Not on the same page. It was either Brady overthrowing, or WR dropping the ball. Better then last week YES however there is still a lot of work to be done here. Yes Galloway has stunk up the joint but the entire passing game is off and thus the calls to cut him are a bit premature. Bench him until he gets it together and start Endelman. Brady needs to be called out to. He hasn't played in a while and needs time but as it stand he has a lot of work to do to make accurate passes and not overthrow WR's. OHH we need Welker back and our 3 starting wideouts should be: Moss, Welker, Endelman.

Defense- Cant say enough about these guys they have been carrying our O yes carrying our O. This has been the surprise of the season so far. Now I give Pees a lot of grief for the blitzes that are missing and I still will but we are a top 5 D so far yes check that if you must top 5 D. Even with Wilfork out and Wright we held our own Pryor filled in and did a good job. Even though the Falcons had abandoned the run somewhat at that point.

Offensive playcalling- Much much better. Whether it was passes to RB's, Playaction, the bag of tricks was open and our O was not as predictable this time around. We need to continue this as well as running the ball so the opposing D does not focus on brady and dont know what is coming. BB called the plays on O if I am not mistaken.

Quick hits
Embarrasing moment: Wright getting carried by Turner for 4 yards

Worst play call- Inside the 10 we abandon the run that got us there to pass and not score a TD. Taylor inside the 10 please 3 times will get that TD.

Red zone- What was it 6 times and we scored ONLY 2 TD's? That needs to change in a hurry.

Mistake : Greg Lewis's release I felt at the time and still feel was a mistake.

 

[Wolfpack]

I don't think we'll see it this season. For one reason, BB is probably the only guy with the stones to attempt it. For another reason, I hope we're always picking up our 3rd downs

But I bet someone does it over the next 2 to 3 years, because it makes a lot of sense in certain situations.

Oh I agree it depends on the situation. Taking huge risks is the right call in a game you are losing or where you need a serious momentum shift. But when you're in control of the game, you shouldn't risk a play that will turn the entire game around.

The Pats were one of the first teams (if not the first) to consistently go for it on 4th and short when on the opponent's side of the field and outside of field goal range. Now it's quite common to see everyone do it. Atlanta did this in the 1st half.

The Patriots hardly invented this strategy. Once they changed the rule that missed FG's go to the spot of the kick instead of the line of scrimmage, we started seeing many teams going for it in that 30-40 yard line zone where you're too close to punt, too far to try a FG.