Official Giants @ Pats postgame thread

[ATippett56]

You're approaching "talking to a wall" status too. If Brady doesn't throw 2 picks and lose a fumble and miss a wide open 85 for a TD and miss an open Hernandez for a TD and all that, that drive doesn't matter.

Tom Brady does not lose a fumble if the offensive line does their job. The Bill Belichick mantra is "do your job". Don't blame Brady for a fumble caused by a New York Giant defensive pass rusher, blame the offensive line.

 

[BKBroiler]

See, that kind of post is just proof that it's you who's not paying attention.



I never claimed otherwise. That's the difference between our positions.

You said saying that this team is better than a 0-8 team without Brady is overreacting. What gives you the right to say that is overreacting if your argument is that no one knows what the record would be?

 

[BKBroiler]

Tom Brady does not lose a fumble if the offensive line does their job. The Bill Belichick mantra is "do your job". Don't blame Brady for a fumble caused by a New York Giant defensive pass rusher, blame the offensive line.

That fumble was Brady's fault as it is the QB's job to protect the football. Yes the OL got beat, but Brady is the one who is ultimately responsible.

 

[Sciz]

Tom Brady does not lose a fumble if the offensive line does their job. The Bill Belichick mantra is "do your job". Don't blame Brady for a fumble caused by a New York Giant defensive pass rusher, blame the offensive line.

Okay. It wasn't Brady's fault. Still the offense's fault and not the defense's though, even though it put the defense in a bad position.

 

[ATippett56]

Is it irrational to have different expectations for the offense and the defense? I don't see why that's a problem.

Thus, only player on the New England Patriots whose standard is set to perfection is Tom Brady while everyone else gets a free ride.

 

[Sciz]

Thus, only player on the New England Patriots whose standard is set to perfection is Tom Brady while everyone else gets a free ride.

I expect Brady to play so his statistics are consistently at a top-10 level. He has failed to do so twice, and both were losses. Both involved a turnover giving the opposing team a TD and the difference in the game being fewer than 7 points.

 

[ATippett56]

That fumble was Brady's fault as it is the QB's job to protect the football. Yes the OL got beat, but Brady is the one who is ultimately responsible.

Just like the New England Patriots defense whose job was not to allow a touchdown in which the opposition has to drive 80 yards with less than 2 minutes on the clock.

 

[Deus Irae]

You said saying that this team is better than a 0-8 team without Brady is overreacting. What gives you the right to say that is overreacting if your argument is that no one knows what the record would be?

Because you're making an essential absolute with your "two loss..." argument, just as the opposing side is with the Colts equivalent. If they are being absurd, so are you.

 

[ATippett56]

I expect Brady to play so his statistics are consistently at a top-10 level. He has failed to do so twice, and both were losses. Both involved a turnover giving the opposing team a TD and the difference in the game being fewer than 7 points.

If you don't like the manner in which Brady is playing then take the ball out of his hands. Currently the New England Patriots have five running backs on the roster: BJGE, Woodhead, Faulk, Ridley, Vereen. Ground and pound, ground and pound.

 

[FCB02062]

It says a lot that it took three eff-ups by two backups to lose despite how bad the offense was playing. The Giants did nothing on that last drive except picking on White and Brown. If those two aren't forced into action, the Pats win this and you have to work harder to think of something to complain about.

maybe if belichick drafted better he wouldn't have to play those two clowns

 

[Sivy]

Anyone else think woodhead's leg was done? Or Welkers shoulder?

Man,

Brady, Welker, Woodhead, Chung, Wilfork...these guys got some heart in them. With out them and BB, imagin what this team would look like?

Also, I think Slater should get some extra practice time catching from Brady. Dude is fast as F according to the eye test.

 

[DaBruinz]

D played well enough to win for the most part with the exception of the usual blown secondary plays that have plagued this team since our LAST SB, and some really boneheaded penalties by players that are NOT talented enough to be in their positions so they have to commit the penalty to catch up. Sorry, but there was no boneheaded play by Arrington. He has the right to the space he is occupying. This is one of my major beefs with the PI calls. Receivers who turn around and try to lung through the defender to make a play. Sorry, but that's BS.

Offense....Brady was so so tonight. Great last TD drive to gronk but alot of his throws were off. INT's (even tho tipped ball) killed the O tonight. Offensive line was fair. Gave Brady time to throw and controlled the blitz schemes better than I thought. Bigger problem was once again none of our offensive dynamo's besides Welk could get any seperation and when halleluia they did!....Brady threw a horrible pass by them. Regarding two OL that were not overly great: Mankins fat and lazy after getting his contract, light...they should have let this bum go... Clearly watched a different game. This idea that Mankins is Lazy and that Light was an issue is just unreal.. Seriously? Have you watched any of the games this year? because your claims are BS. Light and Mankins have played extremely well this year. The problem, AGAIN, is that they weren't prepared for the stunts that the Giants like to use. Also, if you watched, the worst plays were when WENDELL was out there snapping the ball.
Welker is one of the greatest patriots of all time. Endless motor....and the only true WR we have. Ocho STILL can't get on same page with Brady!!!! Branch looks s-l-o-w out there. Gronk with some big plays BUT SEVERAL key drops. Hern had a good game. Even though it is said ad nauseum, Pats need a deep threat AND/OR more explosive weapons besides Welker.

Sorry, but OCHO was not the issue last night. Claiming he was is BS. Brady's throws were so off to him it was pathetic. Brady had 2 good series the entire night. Both interceptions were Brady's fault because his throws were flat. There was no ARC. Had there been, the ball would have gone OVER the defender and right into the receiver's hands. And this was the case on a majority of his throws.

Gronk had ONE drop that was on him. The rest were on Brady because of his poor throw.

The Pats don't need more explosive weapons. They need a gameplan that makes sense and they need to stick to it. They also need Brady to fix whatever it is that is causing him to throw such poor passes..

Special Teams.....SUCKED. Ghost....missed a 27 yarder.....REALLY??? Edelman....WHY the
F(CK is he even out there? He hasn't broken one for any distance in a long time....and the fumble TOTALLY changed the game. I won't go as far as to say it LOST us the game....but it was a major factor.

Not sure where you have been all season, but Edleman has been the Pats BEST return man. On Punts and kick-offs. To say that Gost sucked because of the missed FG is laughable. Now, because of ONE fumble, you start making up all sorts of BS about him? Did you stop to think that there might be a bigger issue on the Kick return game. Such as the Front 7 NOT blocking well. This has been an issue for 3 years now. Scott O'Brien was supposed to be good, but I haven't seen it.

Coaching: Terrible. BOB...one of his WORST games. (sounds redundant doesn't it?) NO CREATIVITY. Really? So you didn't see that reverse they ran? Well, ok, beyond that there was little creativity. I think after this season is over, Kraft needs to sit down with BB and give him ultimatum....Hire a GM, Hire TOP TALENTED OC and DC....or it is time for him to go. This is you parroting those moron mediots Gaspar and Curran. IT pains me terribly to make that statement, but guys we have gone NOWHERE since 2004. 2007 was a nice ride in some ways until teams figured out how to stop Brady to Moss. I think that BB has gone away from what he, romeo, and Charlie did that was so successful....and is now totally focused on having a high powered, potent offense....with just enough defense to slow down the opponent and make sure we win the game. Only problem is this year we have Welker and Gronk as our top receivers and BJGE and RB by committee who have a hard time getting it done. We have NO EXPLOSIVE top notch offensive weapons on this team. Two excellent TE, one incredible WR, and an average Running game does not strike the fear into any defenses ...or their coordinators. The Pats had no explosive "TOP NOTCH" weapons from 2001 to 2004. The problem is that there is no commitment to the run. Even when the team isn't down by 10 points.

So....yes I will say it again, I think BB needs to make some serious changes....get some top shelf coords in here....hire a GM....and get more good "talent" scouts involved with re-stocking the groceries....or he needs to move on (or be moved out). Because once again, since Romeo and Charlie were here....he has gone WAY AWAY from the recipe that got us 3 SB's in 4 years...into a "system" that just doesn't work. I hope Kraft forces his hand a bit after this season is over........

The Pats don't need to hire a GM. What kills me is how people like you change your tune. It wasn't too long ago that you and others were praising BB for being such a great evaluator of talent. Because of ONE guy, the 2009 draft has gone from good to people saying it's horrible. People aren't even giving the guys from 2010 and 2011 a full chance to develop..

Floyd Reese is no "YES" man. And no one can prove that Caserio is a "YES" man despite Curran's claims to the contrary.

Does BB make mistakes? Yes. He's human. And that was clear when he over-rode the scouts and coaches regarding Maroney and Jackson. Two picks that a Majority felt were steals at the time of the draft. Did they pan out that way? No. Maroney was mediocre and Jackson couldn't seem to get on the same page with Brady. That happens.. You move on from it..

People yammer on about needing "top shelf" Coordinators, yet you over-look things. Those "top shelf" Coordinators won't be around for long because they'll be offered head coaching opportunities. Then what? Then we're right back to the same situation..

Do the Pats need better talent evaluators? For linebackers, definitely. For Safeties, yes. For Corners, maybe. And definitely WR. But, what you all are forgetting is that there are factors that BB can't control. And that is how these guys will change when they have all this money. And no, contrary to some people, that is something that you can't ever truly know until you have those kids in the situation.. You don't know how they'll react at a party with drugs around. You don't know how they'll react to having more money than they've ever had before.

One of the things so many people ignore is just how hard it is to keep a competitive team when you have so many different pieces involved over such a long period of time. And people on this site clearly think that they could do a better job when, in fact, there is no way they can know because not a single one of them has ever been in that situation.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, I mean that defense (and it wasn't uncatchable).

Yes, it was uncatchable. It was way over both their heads as Cruz had turned around and stopped his route..

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: How did we get worse when we didn't lose anyone to FA or Retirement?

You're not wrong, but this is not a good thing for the Patriots, because he has been pretty bad as part of the return game.

HUH? The guy was averaging over 12.7 YPR on punts.. That's among the best in the league.. How is that bad?

On kick returns, I'll give you that. But again, the front 7 on kick returns haven't been opening up any lanes for ANYONE.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ocho is continually in the wrong place at the wrong time. Brady throws the ball to a specific spot before Ocho breaks his route. Brady played bad, but hes knows the playbook and Ocho does not. Thats been well documented.

Ocho was brought here to stretch the field. Hes certainly not in NE to compete for routes with Welker and Branch. NE didnt need more guys to do that.

Price could finally pay dividends - The Sun Chronicle Online - Patriots

Except, had you actually watched the game, you'd have seen that Brady was the one with all the bad throws to EVERY receiver. So, to focus just on OCHO is you showing your bias. And Ocho was running his routes well last night and was open more times than not. Yet Brady didn't hit him. Brady's throws were either over-thrown, under-thrown or off the mark.. Go back and watch.

Oh, and Ocho was not brought in to stretch the field. He was brought in to run the Intermediate routes.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Tracy "fing" White

The refs also missed an offensive PI on Gronk...The refs were not to blame for the Pats giving up 14 points in the final 3 minutes.

BS. The PI on Arrington and the non-call on Manningham put the Giants in range to win the game. You can ignore that all you want, but that's fact.

OH, yeah, what offensive PI on Gronk. Do tell?

 

[RhodyPatriot]

All three phases of the game contributed to this loss. If not for the Cowboys going conservative in the 2nd half of that game the Patriots would be looking at a 3 game losing streak.
This is a very flawed team in all areas. (yet I like them against the Jets!?!?)

 

[DaBruinz]

Dude, you blame the refs way too much. Refs made some bad calls, but in general, were fair and consistent. There were calls that could have been made on both teams that they let go.

*ROFLMAO* No they weren't..
The face mask my Kiwanuka on Brady that went uncalled. The numerous holding NON-CALL and I'm not talking about the marginal holding, I'm talking about the ones where they are pulling jerseys and such. Or, in Manningham's case, holding McCourty while standing OOBs. The BS PI call on Arrington. The missed PI calls on the Giants defense. You seriously need to watch the game because you clearly aren't.

That TD by Gronk, he could have been called for a PI. Earlier in the Jets/Bills game, Holmes did the exact same thing and was called for a PI.

Umm.. No..

Their TE was nailed twice on two separate occasions on third down passes, once by Spikes and the other by Chung, the refs could have called both of them as hitting a defenseless receiver just like they've been doing all year, but they swallowed their flags. So while there were plays that we got shafted on, there were also plays that we got away with.

Actually, no. Because in both cases the receiver wasn't defenseless. Helps to know the rules..

B

TW, that PI on Arrington will be called 100 out of 100 because that's a PI based on the rulebook:



NFL Rules Digest: Pass Interference

No. It wouldn't have. Otherwise they'd have called it on the Giants at least twice.. The offensive player is not allowed to initiate contact. Which is what Manningham did. But you keep up your BS..

 

[DaBruinz]

It was PI. If he was looking at the ball then it wouldn't have been. If he didn't touch the Receiver it wouldn't have been.

It's not pass interference regardless of whether he was looking at the ball because Manningham initiated the contact.

 

[DaBruinz]

No it really wasn't. He was not playing the football and impeded the receiver. If he turned back on the ball he was fine, but he didnt and that is the rule.

Except that the rules state that the defensive player is entitled to the space he's standing in and it says that the offensive player cannot initiate contact. Manningham initiated the contact. That makes it OFFENSIVE PI.