NFLPA Decertifies

[IcyPatriot]

They can use replacement players.
And the draft will still happen if that makes any sense.
BUT the NFL will be sued for being a monopoly since there is no player's union in place.
Greed wins over compromise today.
Owners won't show their books. Why, what have they got to hide?!

So what if there is a new union for the players ... beginning with the replacement ones ... then they are not a monopoly anymore?

 

[Deus Irae]

So the NFLPA decertifies thereby blowing off negotiations and mediation. Looking back this, like the owners' preparations for a lockout should be no surprise. The players hired Smith, a litigator, not a negotiator. The NFLPA plan all along was to go thru a Kabuki dance of feigned negotiation and proceed straight to litigation where they feel they have an advantage with a judge.

The NFLPA had no choice but to decertify, since the owners wouldn't open up the books to justify their demands for cuts to player salaries. If the NFLPA hadn't decertified, the ramifications would have been extremely negative for the players.

 

[jsull87]

They're a private company, I wouldnt show my books either. On the other hand I see the players point. I have no sympathy for either side.
My bet is they end up settling before this case gets to court. This was just a move to gain some leverage and to get a better deal than they could have today.

exactly they are a private copany. If someone asked you to show them everything you earnt and every revenue stream you made you would tell them it's none of their business and to get stuffed.

I only know what i have read about the situation but if you look at the statements of the 2 sides today it seems the NFL met the NFLPA on alot of issues and the union wasn't budging on other issues.

 

[VJCPatriot]

exactly they are a private copany. If someone asked you to show them everything you earnt and every revenue stream you made you would tell them it's none of their business and to get stuffed.

How are they going to decide who gets how much of the pie when they don't even know what the whole pie is?

Companies open up their books to the government all the time to pay their taxes. What the Union is looking to find is how much money is being made. Period. The courts will have power to compel the NFL teams to open up their books for the purposes of making that determination.

So the question is, why force it into court, when you know that information has to come out anyways before any meaningful negotiation can take place? What is there to hide, unless the books are cooked?

 

[Don Kipines]

How are they going to decide who gets how much of the pie when they don't even know what the whole pie is?

Companies open up their books to the government all the time to pay their taxes. What the Union is looking to find is how much money is being made. Period. The courts will have power to compel the NFL teams to open up their books for the purposes of making that determination.

So the question is, why force it into court, when you know that information has to come out anyways before any meaningful negotiation can take place? What is there to hide, unless the books are cooked?

One reason they might be stonewalling now on opening the books is that they're still hoping to avoid getting to that point in the courts process, and are hoping to win by waiting out the players via attrition, i.e. the lockout. If they can tie things up long enough to get the players to fold and come back to the bargaining table before the courts force open the owners' books, then they might still get the outcome they want. That's the only way the owners' strategy makes sense to me, because otherwise this looks like financial suicide -- they could end up not only being forced to open their books but paying massive damages on top of losing all sorts of rights. And if their books are cooked, things could get even worse for them, damages-wise. It seems nuts.

 

[Joker]

....so be sure to tune in to tonight's Unsolved Mysteries... as we attempt to find out who killed the golden goose...sponsored by Clues-R-Us and Adam+Eve sex toys...

 

[Wolfpack]

Re: NFLPA to NFL: Show us the books, or see you in court.

exactly they are a private copany. If someone asked you to show them everything you earnt and every revenue stream you made you would tell them it's none of their business and to get stuffed.

And if my boss asked me to take a pay cut because he was losing money when it seems to me he was making money hand over fist I would want to see his books or I would tell him to get stuffed.

 

[Wolfpack]

damn, i was kinda hoping for some kind of mass chaos to ensue, where all 32 teams would use replacement players


like a disney movie

There won't be any replacement players because the players are not on strike, rather they are being locked out. Either the lockout will be declared illegal and all the players will simply show up to camp, or the lockout will be allowed in which case all the players (and potential players) are locked out. Ownership can't lock out just the players under contract but allow others in.

 

[DaBruinz]

They can use replacement players.
And the draft will still happen if that makes any sense.
BUT the NFL will be sued for being a monopoly since there is no player's union in place.
Greed wins over compromise today.
Owners won't show their books. Why, what have they got to hide?!

Except that the NFL is not a monopoly any longer. There are 3 other legitimate football leagues that players can go to. UFL, CFL, AFL. Which is different than it was back in 1989 and even back when the USFL was around.

The owners shouldn't have to show their books to employees. Period. And the players demanding it is a joke.

 

[DaBruinz]

How are they going to decide who gets how much of the pie when they don't even know what the whole pie is?

Companies open up their books to the government all the time to pay their taxes. What the Union is looking to find is how much money is being made. Period. The courts will have power to compel the NFL teams to open up their books for the purposes of making that determination.

So the question is, why force it into court, when you know that information has to come out anyways before any meaningful negotiation can take place? What is there to hide, unless the books are cooked?

First off, there is an extremely good chance that the Union Decertification is going to be declared null and void. Many people have weighed in on this because there isn't a major issue outstanding for them like there was in 1989.

Secondly, the court won't have the power to compel the NFL to do a damn thing for years. And, in the mean time, the owners can run the league how they want. And the players will, most definitely, be on the short end of the stick for that. And the owners are going to start subtracting out a lot of things that they have given up in the past 2-3 CBA extensions.

Third, as I have mentioned, there are 3 other legitimate football leagues that players can go to. And the whole "Global Economy" thing is going to work against them in that respect.

Lastly, the teams (except for the Packers) are privately held. It's not of the players dam business how much the respective owners are making. It's not like the owners can pocket the unspent cap money the way the CBA is spelled out. Any unspent money goes back into the pot for the following year.

The "PIE" as you refer to is sits at around 9 BILLION. The players get 59.5% after the owners get their 1 billion off the top. That 1 billion seems like a large sum until you divide it between 32 teams. Then it's only 31.25 million. Which isn't a whole lot when you consider that the new Cowboys Stadium was built for over 1 billion dollars and the new Giants Stadium was over 1 billion.

As someone pointed out in another thread, The Green Bay Packers are operating with less than a 10% profit margin. That is a recipe for failure, not success.

Another point. I'd be willing to bet that more than 75% of the players in the league would have no idea how to read a balance sheet. So, opening the books doesn't help them because they wouldn't understand it. It would only help their greedy agents who want to make more money by getting their players more money.

I've said it before, I think that the decertification is going to blow up in players faces even if it is allowed to stand. Primarily because there aren't a whole lot of people who are going to sympathize with 1500 people whose average salary is north of 2.5 million a year. Especially in this economy.

 

[Wolfpack]

Except that the NFL is not a monopoly any longer. There are 3 other legitimate football leagues that players can go to. UFL, CFL, AFL. Which is different than it was back in 1989 and even back when the USFL was around.

Sorry, but those leagues are in nowhere near as the same class or as "legitimate" as the NFL. The CFL isn't even based in America (do they even have a single American franchise?) and there's a chance we never see either of the other 2 leagues suit up pads ever again.

As far as the law is concerned, the NFL is considered a monopoly.

The owners shouldn't have to show their books to employees. Period. And the players demanding it is a joke.

They shouldn't be legally forced to show their books, but if you want a bunch of employees to take a paycut on the notion that you are losing money, showing your books might go a long way to that end.

 

[Wolfpack]

Secondly, the court won't have the power to compel the NFL to do a damn thing for years. And, in the mean time, the owners can run the league how they want.

That's not entirely true. The league cannot violate the laws of the United States of America.

Another point. I'd be willing to bet that more than 75% of the players in the league would have no idea how to read a balance sheet. So, opening the books doesn't help them because they wouldn't understand it.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read in here in a while. Uh, you do know that they have lawyers and accountants and auditors at the ready, right?

 

[DaBruinz]

One reason they might be stonewalling now on opening the books is that they're still hoping to avoid getting to that point in the courts process, and are hoping to win by waiting out the players via attrition, i.e. the lockout. If they can tie things up long enough to get the players to fold and come back to the bargaining table before the courts force open the owners' books, then they might still get the outcome they want. That's the only way the owners' strategy makes sense to me, because otherwise this looks like financial suicide -- they could end up not only being forced to open their books but paying massive damages on top of losing all sorts of rights. And if their books are cooked, things could get even worse for them, damages-wise. It seems nuts.

It only seems nuts if you look at it with your eyes closed and no understanding of the courts and today's economy. And I can guarantee you that the 31 owners have a better understanding of the business side of things in a global economy than a majority of the players.

It's amazing how people like yourself have overlooked that Green Bay is operating with less than a 10% profit margin. That's on the record. It's public knowledge. I think that they probably fall close to the average in the league.. Yes, you're going to have your highs and your lows, but the average is going to be down there.

 

[Ring 6]

There won't be any replacement players because the players are not on strike, rather they are being locked out. Either the lockout will be declared illegal and all the players will simply show up to camp, or the lockout will be allowed in which case all the players (and potential players) are locked out. Ownership can't lock out just the players under contract but allow others in.

I dont think there can be a lockout now. The union no longer exists. There is no union to lockout. And there is no need to lockout becuase the players have no collective rights.
The teams can do whatever they want I believe.
I'm pretty sure that every collectively bargained issue is now null and void.
Players will not have insurance, pension, medical treatment.
The league can do what it wishes with minicamps, OTAs, training camp etc. There are no longer any minimum salaries.
I have no clue what happens to players under contract if they do not report to the first mandatory function.

 

[Wolfpack]

I dont think there can be a lockout now. The union no longer exists. There is no union to lockout. And there is no need to lockout becuase the players have no collective rights.
The teams can do whatever they want I believe.

I agree the lockout will be nullified, but the teams cannot exactly just go ahead and do whatever they want. They still have to operate within the framework of the laws of the United States of America. And collusion is illegal. Now, of course, if collusion was suspected it could take years to work through the courts. But anything that was over the top blatently illegal could receive an immediate injunction.

I'm pretty sure that every collectively bargained issue is now null and void.
Players will not have insurance, pension, medical treatment.
The league can do what it wishes with minicamps, OTAs, training camp etc. There are no longer any minimum salaries.
I have no clue what happens to players under contract if they do not report to the first mandatory function.

Contracts are still valid but yes, all the benefits which were collectively bargained go flying out the window. I honestly don't know what, if any, limits there would be regarding OTAs and minicamps (or the possible punishments for missing them). I mean, what would stop the owners from saying "OK fellas, training camp starts tomorrow!"

If I were the owners, the very first thing I would do if/when the lockout is nullified is annunce an 18 game regular season, effective immediately. One thing I have not heard addressed is what would happen to players who were franchised over the past month. Is Peyton Manning now a UFA?

 

[Deus Irae]

I dont think there can be a lockout now. The union no longer exists. There is no union to lockout. And there is no need to lockout becuase the players have no collective rights.
The teams can do whatever they want I believe.
I'm pretty sure that every collectively bargained issue is now null and void.
Players will not have insurance, pension, medical treatment.
The league can do what it wishes with minicamps, OTAs, training camp etc. There are no longer any minimum salaries.
I have no clue what happens to players under contract if they do not report to the first mandatory function.

WASHINGTON -- NFL labor talks broke down Friday, just hours before the collective bargaining agreement was set to expire, as the union rejected a proposal from the league, then decertified, and 10 players, including MVP quarterbacks Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, sued the owners in federal court.

In response, the NFL planned to impose a lockout of players, starting at midnight ET, after the CBA officially expired, two team sources told NFL Network insider Michael Lombardi. No official announcement of a lockout was made.

The players went to court to request an injunction to block such a move by the league.

NFL.com news: League plans to lock out players, whose union decertified

WASHINGTON – Unable to decide how to divvy up $9 billion a year, NFL owners and players put the country's most popular sport in limbo Friday by breaking off labor negotiations hours before their contract expired. The union decertified; the league imposed a lockout.

"We are locked out," union president and former player Kevin Mawae said in a text message to The Associated Press. "We were informed today that players are no longer welcome at team facilities."

Lockout, decertification put NFL, players in limbo - Yahoo! News

 

[cmasspatsfan]

It's amazing how people like yourself have overlooked that Green Bay is operating with less than a 10% profit margin. That's on the record. It's public knowledge. I think that they probably fall close to the average in the league.. Yes, you're going to have your highs and your lows, but the average is going to be down there.

And they won the SuperBowl. The bigger crux of the issue the way I understand it is the owners want more money to grow the league as expenses have gone up they have less than what they fel they need.