NFL will "proceed immediately" with hiring and training replacement officials

[ausbacker]

:wha: :idontgetit: Do you think those deep sea fishermen spend their off season studying charts and currents and polishing the decks as opposed working other seasonal jobs (or drinking away their hard earned limited seasonal incomes) and that somehow correlates to full time refs?

Gene Steratore who is one of the best of the new generation of referees also refs NCAA Divl. 1 Basketball (which he believes helps keeps him in shape shape mentally and physically) as well as running a private famiily business with his brother Tony who is also an NFL official. He made the call on the Calvin Johnson non catch which most fans decry...only the rules back him up. These guys are adjudicating complex rules fans don't often grasp or agree with and they are doing it often in split seconds. There will always be human error. There is all that and perhaps more than that at play in other leagues with full time refs. I don't think refs tarnish games in this league. The NBA is another matter... What those refs do to supplement their FT income is often a matter of conjecture...

Mo my comment is more directed towards Deus' position. I don't see how one can take the position that it won't improve the NFL when it hasn't been explored and opinions are divided on the role of officiating in other sports.

 

[lurker1965]

Because they're not in the same union. Sometimes unions have sympathy strikes with other unions, other times they don't.

Yes, all unions are against solidarity of workers. Not saying they don't usually act hypocritically, just saying it is entertaining when they do.

Aside: It is funny that the Teamsters - more so when mob controlled - were the only ones to figure out any picket line meant they had an excuse to not work.

Edit: how do I edit it to lower the font size for the aside?

 

[Deus Irae]

Mo my comment is more directed towards Deus' position. I don't see how one can take the position that it won't improve the NFL when it hasn't been explored and opinions are divided on the role of officiating in other sports.

1. The league says that it has explored it/looked at it, it just hasn't implemented it. As a matter of fact, Goodell talked about this back in January, when he talked about making 10 officials full-time.

''Consistency is exactly what every club wants, and I think every fan wants. You want consistency in the way rules are applied,'' Goodell said. ''We are contemplating this offseason taking some of those officials from the field who are now part time - they have other jobs - and making a certain number of them, let's say 10, full time.''

ProFootballTalk

Here's the NFL VP of officiating:

The NFL has toyed with the idea of full-time officials before, but not to this extent.

"This is the first time that we're really going to examine it in the off-season," Carl Johnson, the NFL's vice president of officiating, said by phone just before the Super Bowl.

Off-season is underway for NFL's part-time game officials, as league considers some full-time changes | cleveland.com

2. Not one of the three other major sports has a divided opinion on the issue. Basketball, hockey, baseball.... the fans of each sport know that officiating has blown throughout much of that sport's 'recent' history, despite the full-time nature of the jobs. Hockey's officiating was so bad that they had to add extra officials. Basketball's officiating is so bad that almost nobody really believes the games are on the up-and-up, and you can almost tell how some games are going to end up just by looking at who's calling the games.

 

[Why?PJ]

I want no part in full time NFL refs, unless the NFL is going to get said refs to officiate as many other non NFL games as possible to help practice on.

If they could get there full time refs to officiate 3 or 4 games a weekend including some college games then I would be all for it. The only way to get better is to practice. Even 3 days of games and 2 full days of watching tape and discussions would be ok.

 

[captain stone]

...the quality of the referees has gone down significantly over the past decade and this was on display for everyone to see during the Steelers/Seahawks SB. Hell, that whole series of play-offs was marred by numerous bad calls in just about every game. And I am not talking about minor things. I am talking about MAJOR, game changing calls..

That's for sure. That entire 2005 season/POs were a national disgrace.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

You're making an argument based upon an unproven assumption, which is that full-time NFL officials would make for a better product. How's that working out in the NBA?

If you want to call believing that someone who spends 40+ hours a week practicing and honing a skillset will make one better at it than if they just practiced it in their spare time then yes, I am basing my argument on that assumption.

The problem with NBA refs isn't about skill, it is about corruption and pettyness, and about a league that hasn't done nearly enough correct it.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you want to call believing that someone who spends 40+ hours a week practicing and honing a skillset will make one better at it than if they just practiced it in their spare time then yes, I am basing my argument on that assumption.

Then you're basing your argument on a really weak assumption, particularly given that there are no games for those officials to "practice" on.

The problem with NBA refs isn't about skill, it is about corruption and pettyness, and about a league that hasn't done nearly enough correct it.

No, the problem is that working full-time isn't some kind of panacea.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Then you're basing your argument on a really weak assumption, particularly given that there are no games for those officials to "practice" on.



No, the problem is that working full-time isn't some kind of panacea.

The more time you spend practicing something, the better you get at it. The better the training program, the better the yeild from time spent. Your agument about not being able to practice on actual games is evidence of your isolation from the real world. If that truly were the case, what would be the point of OTAs and the pre-season? Soldiers usually train for years before they actually experience combat, and the effects of that training are obvious to any rational observer.

 

[Gumby]

I want no part in full time NFL refs, unless the NFL is going to get said refs to officiate as many other non NFL games as possible to help practice on.

If they could get there full time refs to officiate 3 or 4 games a weekend including some college games then I would be all for it. The only way to get better is to practice. Even 3 days of games and 2 full days of watching tape and discussions would be ok.

Pure INSANITY. You want guys to be ruling one day that one foot down is good and then the very next day that 2 feet down is required (after probably traveling on a red-eye plane flight)? Good plan.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That's for sure. That entire 2005 season/POs were a national disgrace.

A lot of what fans perceive as a disgrace is the result of myriad rules changes and poorly drafted rules that are too often open to subjective interpretation coupled with the fact that prior to 1999 replay wasn't fully implemented (the league toyed with it in a much more limited form from 1986-92 then canned it) and broadcast television wasn't as focused (or capable of focusing on) it until the last decade. One reason officials always adamantly opposed it was they knew it would make them look bad. They always made mistakes, it's the nature of the beast, they just weren't as noticable. Nowadays they are under a microscope. Not to mention second guessing by highly touted analysts who often don't actually understand the rules or have a pre existing bias against their actual interpretation.

 

[Gumby]

A lot of what fans perceive as a disgrace is the result of myriad rules changes and poorly drafted rules that are too often open to subjective interpretation coupled with the fact that prior to 1999 replay wasn't fully implemented (the league toyed with it in a much more limited form from 1986-92 then canned it) and broadcast television wasn't as focused (or capable of focusing on) it until the last decade. One reason officials always adamantly opposed it was they knew it would make them look bad. They always made mistakes, it's the nature of the beast, they just weren't as noticable. Nowadays they are under a microscope. Not to mention second guessing by highly touted analysts who often don't actually understand the rules or have a pre existing bias against their actual interpretation.

Mo, I get what you are saying; but he was talking about 2005. And the level of competence in the playoffs that year was DECIDEDLY LOWER than even that very same REGULAR SEASON. And that supposedly with either all star ref teams or the best rated crews (I forget which way they were working then).

IMO there is no rational excuse for 2005 POs performance except for a gamed (either league orchestrated or just a bunch of yahoo refs who thought they knew ahead of time who the better team was or should be) [or god forbid they were actually taking $]

Pitt was jobbed badly in the Indy game. But they played hard enough to fight through it.

Then they got the golden boy treatment the rest of the way because they were the David who slew Goliath; ending with a total travesty versus seattle.

 

[DaBruinz]

NFL referees face layers of scrutiny - NFL - ESPN

From the Hochuli screw up in that Chargers game:



NFL will lower Ed Hochuli's grade after blown call - USATODAY.com

In in neither case do they bother to attempt to rectify the situation as the NHL does. In the NHL, the official is sent notice of the mistake, a video of the mistake and a detailed explanation of how to prevent the mistake from happening going forward.

As for the NFL grading, it was proven to be a sham during the whole play-offs that led to the Steelers/Seahawks fiasco of a SB.

 

[DaBruinz]

2. Not one of the three other major sports has a divided opinion on the issue. Basketball, hockey, baseball.... the fans of each sport know that officiating has blown throughout much of that sport's 'recent' history, despite the full-time nature of the jobs. Hockey's officiating was so bad that they had to add extra officials. Basketball's officiating is so bad that almost nobody really believes the games are on the up-and-up, and you can almost tell how some games are going to end up just by looking at who's calling the games.

Sorry, Deus, but your facts are off on why hockey added a SINGLE official (not multiple) to each game. It wasn't a matter of the officiating being bad. It was a matter of advancing with the times. There were numerous things that led to the fourth official being added. One of the biggest ones was the speed of the game got significantly faster with advances in equipment. Particularly goalie equipment, elbow pads and the pants. Also, the size of the athletes changed significantly. Back in the early 80's the average size was like 5'11 and 195 lbs... In the early 2000's it was 6'2 and 220lbs.

 

[ausbacker]

1. The league says that it has explored it/looked at it, it just hasn't implemented it. As a matter of fact, Goodell talked about this back in January, when he talked about making 10 officials full-time.

ProFootballTalk

Here's the NFL VP of officiating:

Off-season is underway for NFL's part-time game officials, as league considers some full-time changes | cleveland.com

2. Not one of the three other major sports has a divided opinion on the issue. Basketball, hockey, baseball.... the fans of each sport know that officiating has blown throughout much of that sport's 'recent' history, despite the full-time nature of the jobs. Hockey's officiating was so bad that they had to add extra officials. Basketball's officiating is so bad that almost nobody really believes the games are on the up-and-up, and you can almost tell how some games are going to end up just by looking at who's calling the games.

I understand the NFL's position Deus, I just don't understand how something can be discounted given the perception that it hasn't worked elsewhere.

 

[Krugman]

The NFL is the most lucrative sport in North America,perhaps the world,quality referees are an integral part of the game,period.Make them full time,train them longer,pay them more,demand more from them.Its that simple.

 

[DaBruinz]

A lot of what fans perceive as a disgrace is the result of myriad rules changes and poorly drafted rules that are too often open to subjective interpretation coupled with the fact that prior to 1999 replay wasn't fully implemented (the league toyed with it in a much more limited form from 1986-92 then canned it) and broadcast television wasn't as focused (or capable of focusing on) it until the last decade. One reason officials always adamantly opposed it was they knew it would make them look bad. They always made mistakes, it's the nature of the beast, they just weren't as noticable. Nowadays they are under a microscope. Not to mention second guessing by highly touted analysts who often don't actually understand the rules or have a pre existing bias against their actual interpretation.

Sorry, Mo, but this post is nothing but pure BS on your part. I find it amazing that you are attempting to blame the absolutely poor officiating of the 2005 play-offs on fans and analysts who "don't understand the rules". In fact, it's borderline insulting considering the fact that many fans are as educated on the rules as the referees themselves, nowadays, because the rules are so easily accessible.

Do yourself a favor and go back to those play-offs and look at all the games where MAJOR mistakes were made. We're talking about GAME-CHANGING mistakes. Heck, I bet you'll find that you even chimed in on how bad those mistakes were. And not on the side of the officials.

 

[fester]

I want no part in full time NFL refs, unless the NFL is going to get said refs to officiate as many other non NFL games as possible to help practice on.

If they could get there full time refs to officiate 3 or 4 games a weekend including some college games then I would be all for it. The only way to get better is to practice. Even 3 days of games and 2 full days of watching tape and discussions would be ok.

That is too much work if the goal is to avoid mental burnout by Thanksgiving. One game on Sunday and then a mid-week college game would probably be more appropriate for full time crews working at the highest level.

The other problem is that you want your officials to fully internalize the rules and therefore react to what they see instead of think about what they just saw before doing something appropriate about that play. Having officials working different leagues/levels with fairly divergent rule sets works against this goal.

An ideal full-time official crew schedule could look like this, and if you argue to get rid of the college game in mid-week, I could go for that.

Sunday: Game day, show up to the stadium 3 to 4 hours before kick-off, get changed, get a good warm-up jog, pre-game with rest of the crew (go over field conditions, TV time-out situations, special situations/players w/reputations or actions that showed up on film review, rules points of emphasis etc, meet with teams, and then game time. After the game, shower, have a quick (15-30 minute) debrief on the game, going over anything wierd/controversial. The debrief is led by an NFL official assessor/evaluator.

Monday: The crew watches All-22 film together of the Sunday game and then break it down by positional grouping (line of scrimmage guys vs. secondary guys); look for positioning, look for angles, look at all called penalties, look at noted non-calls. Again, this is led by the assessor/evaluator. Afterwards, the crew does a good high intensity interval work-out. The crew flies home.

Tuesday: Off day with expecation that it is also a light conditioning day (45 minutes of jogging/eliptical/swimming whatever floats each guy's boat)
Wednesday: Assignment received for two Sundays from now. Officials do half a day of independent film work for their next NFL game, and half a day of film work for their College game. Finish the day off with a high intensity interval workout.
Thursday: Do a local college game (no more than 2 hour drive from house). Line of Scrimmage guys get some weight training in.
Friday: Off day/travel to next game city
Saturday: Crew meets again, 6 hours worth of film work on Sunday's game to go over points of emphasis, any correctable issues brought up from last week's reviews, tendencies, trends etc. Get a good workout in.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sorry, Mo, but this post is nothing but pure BS on your part. I find it amazing that you are attempting to blame the absolutely poor officiating of the 2005 play-offs on fans and analysts who "don't understand the rules". In fact, it's borderline insulting considering the fact that many fans are as educated on the rules as the referees themselves, nowadays, because the rules are so easily accessible.

Do yourself a favor and go back to those play-offs and look at all the games where MAJOR mistakes were made. We're talking about GAME-CHANGING mistakes. Heck, I bet you'll find that you even chimed in on how bad those mistakes were. And not on the side of the officials.

Many fans are as educated on the rules as they are as situationally proficient as pro coaches in x's and o's strategies...

You're fixated on something that happened in 2005 as if nothing was ever done to rectify it... And you are discounting the simple reality that mistakes happening is part of human nature. I even see you make them here, frequently, and I know how focused you are on the righteousness of what you're posting.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That is too much work if the goal is to avoid mental burnout by Thanksgiving. One game on Sunday and then a mid-week college game would probably be more appropriate for full time crews working at the highest level.

The other problem is that you want your officials to fully internalize the rules and therefore react to what they see instead of think about what they just saw before doing something appropriate about that play. Having officials working different leagues/levels with fairly divergent rule sets works against this goal.

An ideal full-time official crew schedule could look like this, and if you argue to get rid of the college game in mid-week, I could go for that.

Sunday: Game day, show up to the stadium 3 to 4 hours before kick-off, get changed, get a good warm-up jog, pre-game with rest of the crew (go over field conditions, TV time-out situations, special situations/players w/reputations or actions that showed up on film review, rules points of emphasis etc, meet with teams, and then game time. After the game, shower, have a quick (15-30 minute) debrief on the game, going over anything wierd/controversial. The debrief is led by an NFL official assessor/evaluator.

Monday: The crew watches All-22 film together of the Sunday game and then break it down by positional grouping (line of scrimmage guys vs. secondary guys); look for positioning, look for angles, look at all called penalties, look at noted non-calls. Again, this is led by the assessor/evaluator. Afterwards, the crew does a good high intensity interval work-out. The crew flies home.

Tuesday: Off day with expecation that it is also a light conditioning day (45 minutes of jogging/eliptical/swimming whatever floats each guy's boat)
Wednesday: Assignment received for two Sundays from now. Officials do half a day of independent film work for their next NFL game, and half a day of film work for their College game. Finish the day off with a high intensity interval workout.
Thursday: Do a local college game (no more than 2 hour drive from house). Line of Scrimmage guys get some weight training in.
Friday: Off day/travel to next game city
Saturday: Crew meets again, 6 hours worth of film work on Sunday's game to go over points of emphasis, any correctable issues brought up from last week's reviews, tendencies, trends etc. Get a good workout in.

Jeebus...now you want full time to equate to 7 days a week... And while I don't follow the college game, which fwiw has different rules, what in the hell college teams play a midweek schedule...

 

[fester]

Jeebus...now you want full time to equate to 7 days a week... And while I don't follow the college game, which fwiw has different rules, what in the hell college teams play a midweek schedule...

No, it is roughly a 5 day work week (Tuesday and Friday off, so maybe move the Friday travel to first flight out on Saturdy morning to make it a full day off).

And for college, there is almost always a mid-week game on ESPN, and then go down to D-1a and D-2 where Saturdays are not sacred, and most crews could find a mid-week game if they wanted to.

I was templating the schedule off what I know --- that is the rough schedule for European A-league soccer refs who are full timers.