NFL Network's Top 10 Patriots of All Time

[patman52]

10. Ben Coates
9. Nick Buoniconti
8. Tedy Bruschi
7. Willie McGinest
6. Drew Bledsoe
5. Mike Haynes
4. Adam Vinatieri
3. Andre Tippet
2. John Hannah
1. Tom Brady


I agree with 1-3, but the rest I don't know about, where's Gino.

Where the hell is Stanley Morgan?

 

[BradfordPatsFan]

This is hard, but it should be. I think that is the point. I am not sure I could do a better list than others but here is my .02 on some hot button topics in this thread...

I think Gino needs to be on that list. AFL's all time leading scorer. He was the Patriots' all time leading scorer until a few years back. He was not only the kicker but also a darn good wr too.

People forget how great Bledsoe was from 1994-the middle of 1999. He was arguably one of the top 5 qb's in the game, single handedly winning games in big spots and getting this team into the playoffs. He is still the all time leader in yards and 3rd in td's. Let's not allow his tumultuous 2000 and 2001 seasons cloud what was a very good player. If he wasn't in the top 10, he at least deserves consideration. To say any list including him doesn't merrit reading is very short sighted IMHO.

Lastly, I think AV also deserves to be on there. Again, leading scorer all time needs to be considered for one of the greatest players in the history of the team. He helped get this team to four super bowls and he was clutch. That being said, I think as a kicker he would need to be near the bottom of the top 10 behind guys like Morgan, Tippett, Bruschi, et al.

 

[thechris]

1. Tom Brady
2. Bill Belichick
3. John Hannah
4. Andre Tippett
5. Gino
6. Ty Law
7. Mike Haynes
8. Richard Seymour
9. Stanley Morgan
10. Troy Brown

List is tough to make.

 

[Jimke]

Brady
Hannah
Haynes
Tippett
Buoniconti
Morgan
Cappelletti
Seymour
Nance
Vinateri

 

[matt9071]

1. Tom Brady
2. Bill Belichick
3. John Hannah
4. Andre Tippett
5. Gino
6. Ty Law
7. Mike Haynes
8. Richard Seymour
9. Stanley Morgan
10. Troy Brown

List is tough to make.

Much better

 

[jmt57]

Here's the link for those who haven't seen it: NFL Videos: Top 10 Patriots of all time

My big question is, where is BB?? If not #1, at worst he should be #2 on this list. This shouldn't be a player only list, I saw Papa Bear Halas was the #1 Chicago Bear the other day. BB belongs on this list, no doubt about it.

If the list can include anyone in the organization and not just players, then Belichick certainly needs to be included, and Robert Kraft should be considered as well.

 

[Jimke]

The only locks on this list are Tom Brady and the four Hall Of Famers.

 

[stinkypete]

1. Bill Belichick
2. Tom Brady
3. John Hannah
4. Andre Tippett
5. Drew Bledsoe
6. Troy Brown
7. Tedy Bruschi
8. Adam Vinateiri
9. Gino
10. Stanley Morgan

First, Belichick belongs at the top of the list, period. Hannah and Tippett are locked in near the top of the list because they are all time greats at their positions, but Haynes is left off because he is known more as a Raider than a Patriot.

Bledsoe deserves his place because he was a central figure of the teams reinvention from laughingstock to perennial AFC contender and he led some very good 90's teams.

After that, it's tough, but I give Belichick era Players higher ranking because they contributed to the team reaching ulimate greatness. So, AV > Gino, Troy > Morgan, and anybody who questions Bruschi's place on this list needs togo back and watch video from the '03-'04 seasons.

 

[PYPER]

There is NO WAY that Bledsoe or Vinatieri belong on this list.

Yes they were invaluable contributors to this organization but we're talking about a TOP 10 list here. A kicker, no matter how great he is, only plays a handful of plays in any game. It wouldn't matter if he made every single kick in his entire career, he's still "JUST" a kicker.

 

[JoeSixPat]

There is NO WAY that Bledsoe or Vinatieri belong on this list.

Yes they were invaluable contributors to this organization but we're talking about a TOP 10 list here. A kicker, no matter how great he is, only plays a handful of plays in any game. It wouldn't matter if he made every single kick in his entire career, he's still "JUST" a kicker.

I know - I mean does anyone actually think we wouldn't have won our first Super Bowl even if Vinatieri missed those FGs?

 

[BradyFTW!]

I know - I mean does anyone actually think we wouldn't have won our first Super Bowl even if Vinatieri missed those FGs?

Nobody's saying he was a bad player, or wasn't a valuable contributor. He was wasn't one of the top 10 patriots of all time. But if you think that Vinatieri played a more significant role in winning the 2001 and 2003 SBs than Ty Law, then I don't know what to tell you. And by your criteria, doesn't Lonie Paxton belong on the list too? He snapped the ball for every one of those kicks- if he'd screwed up all those snaps, I'm sure we would have won the SB anyways . See, I can do flippant and sarcastic too.

And besides, your argument that the Pats wouldn't have made any of those FGs without him is totally flawed. Even a standard JAG kicker will make most of the kicks that Vinatieri did. If Vinatieri was so valuable, then why were the Patriots unwilling to pay him $3M per year to keep him?

 

[RDS11]

If your Top 10 list includes Bledsoe you’ve automatically lost all credibility so there’s no point in reading the rest of your list. So that opens up one slot.

Looking at the rest of the list versus who’s been left off, I’d have to remove Coates even though I thought he was a great player. With those 2 slots open, the 2 most glaring omissions are Stanley Morgan and Ty Law. A case can be made for Gino, Troy, Seymour, Armstrong, etc. and we can argue all day but I’ll put them in the next 10. No shame there.

Gotta laugh at those who say AV doesn’t deserve to be on the list because he’s a kicker. In case you haven’t been paying attention, kicking is an integral part of football (just ask the Bills and countless other teams who have lost big games as a result). The indisputable fact of the matter is that without Adam we wouldn’t be sitting here with 3 Lombardis and that’s good enough for me. BB calls him a football player and, um, he knows a little more than we do.

Bledsoe was the face of the franchise in the 90's. Morgan was very good, but he didn't finish up in the top 10 receiving and td reception year in and year out like Bledsoe did for passing yards and tds.

Morgan is 73th all-time with 557 receptions, and 93th all-time for average yards per game. Bledsoe is in the top ten in many passing categories, and 14th in avg passing yards per game. He was better than Morgan at their respective positions, and Bledsoe played a more important position.

As for Vinatieri, I'll just say that there is a reason why there's only 1 kicker in the HOF...

 

[jmt57]

Bledsoe was the face of the franchise in the 90's. Morgan was very good, but he didn't finish up in the top 10 receiving and td reception year in and year out like Bledsoe did for passing yards and tds.

Morgan is 73th all-time with 557 receptions, and 93th all-time for average yards per game. Bledsoe is in the top ten in many passing categories, and 14th in avg passing yards per game. He was better than Morgan at their respective positions, and Bledsoe played a more important position.

As for Vinatieri, I'll just say that there is a reason why there's only 1 kicker in the HOF...

I think you need to dig a little bit deeper than just looking at where each one ranks on the NFL all-time lists for yardage at their position. The game was a lot different when Morgan played than when Bledsoe did.

For evidence, just go back to that NFL all-time list for passing yardage. Vinny Testaverde is 6th, Jim Everett is 16th and Steve DeBerg is 18th; is that where they would also rank among all quarterbacks in NFL history? Isaac Bruce ranks 2nd in NFL history in receiving yardage; does that make him the 2nd best receiver in NFL history?

Bledsoe is not a horrible choice for being included among the top ten players in Pats history; I can understand him being among the top ten even though I didn't have him on my list. I just don't think Morgan should be dismissed so quickly based on a cursory glance at his rankings in NFL history.

 

[RDS11]

I think you need to dig a little bit deeper than just looking at where each one ranks on the NFL all-time lists for yardage at their position. The game was a lot different when Morgan played than when Bledsoe did.

For evidence, just go back to that NFL all-time list for passing yardage. Vinny Testaverde is 6th, Jim Everett is 16th and Steve DeBerg is 18th; is that where they would also rank among all quarterbacks in NFL history? Isaac Bruce ranks 2nd in NFL history in receiving yardage; does that make him the 2nd best receiver in NFL history?

Bledsoe is not a horrible choice for being included among the top ten players in Pats history; I can understand him being among the top ten even though I didn't have him on my list. I just don't think Morgan should be dismissed so quickly based on a cursory glance at his rankings in NFL history.

I understand that volume statistics such as receptions and yardage have changed a lot in recent years. However, when breaking down Bledsoe and Morgan statistics on a year by year basis, Bledsoe was more often part of the top 5 or 10 than Morgan.
Another stat that is telling is the avg yardage per game. Among players that retired in 2006 or before, Bledsoe is 4th all-time. Morgan is 33rd among players who retired in 1991 or prior to that year.

 

[JoeSixPat]

And besides, your argument that the Pats wouldn't have made any of those FGs without him is totally flawed. Even a standard JAG kicker will make most of the kicks that Vinatieri did. If Vinatieri was so valuable, then why were the Patriots unwilling to pay him $3M per year to keep him?

True - anyone could have made that Snow Bowl kick, and teams that argueably had more talent (the Colts) certainly never had any problems with kickers choking in high pressure situations.

But while the Colts viewed Vinatieri as the missing piece of the puzzle and have a SB ring to show for it, my guess is that the Patriots, in drafting a highly touted kicker instead of spending $3 million on Vinatieri, had plans to use that money on some key offensive players that would ensure that the Patriots could blow out teams rather than be dependent on winning by a Field Goal.

Overall I don't argue with that assessment - 16-0 during the regular season suggests it was a pretty good plan... though some would argue that Belichick didn't seem quite ready to trust Gostkowski with a big, high pressure, long yardage situation.

Would that have made a difference in the 2007 Super Bowl? No one knows, though Vinatieri did have a few surprisingly long FGs that season for the Colts.

My point is, I can easilly find a place on my top 10 list for a kicker who made some pivotal kicks in each of the franchise's Super Bowl victories (all of which coincidentally were decided by 3 points - which coincidentally was the number of points we lost by in the 2007 SB).

I'm not saying we don't win Super Bowl XXXVI without Brady - but I'm saying it's very possible we don't win Super Bowl XXXVI - or even get there - without Vinatieri.

And since winning creates an environment for winning, attracting top players willing to play for less than market value - one might argue those kicks helped create the winning franchise we have today.

In other words, are players flocking to the Patriots to play for Belichick if he never won a Super Bowl as HC? I doubt it.

 

[brabirschorr]

As for Vinatieri, I'll just say that there is a reason why there's only 1 kicker in the HOF...

You're right, there is a reason. Which makes AV even more of a lock when he retires.

 

[brabirschorr]

People forget how great Bledsoe was from 1994-the middle of 1999. He was arguably one of the top 5 qb's in the game, single handedly winning games in big spots and getting this team into the playoffs. He is still the all time leader in yards and 3rd in td's. Let's not allow his tumultuous 2000 and 2001 seasons cloud what was a very good player. If he wasn't in the top 10, he at least deserves consideration. To say any list including him doesn't merrit reading is very short sighted IMHO.

Nobody wanted Bledsoe to be great more than I did. He certainly showed flashes of greatness - the comeback against Minnesota early in his career and the AFC Championship game when he came in for Brady, just to name a few. But there were just as many times when a bad decision or poor pass resulted in defeat being snatched from the jaws of victory. At the end of the day (or career), he was very good but not great IMO.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not saying we don't win Super Bowl XXXVI without Brady - but I'm saying it's very possible we don't win Super Bowl XXXVI - or even get there - without Vinatieri.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree. I don't think we win the SB in 2001 without Vinatieri. I just think that you can say that for at least 5 or 6 guys on that team alone. Vinatieri was an awesome Patriot, and I love the guy to this day. I just think that there are at least 10 players who meant more to the franchise. And since there's no real way to evaluate kickers vs. QBs vs. CBs vs. DTs in the way that we'd have to, it really just becomes a matter of philosophy and opinion. At least in the Brady/Manning threads we can evaluate them as one QB against another; this is just a total crapshoot.

I respect the opinion that Vinatieri's a top 10 Patriot, and understand where it's coming from, but I just don't agree with it. But I think I've explained my case, and I don't think we're going to suddenly agree on this one, so that's that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If your Top 10 list includes Bledsoe you’ve automatically lost all credibility so there’s no point in reading the rest of your list. So that opens up one slot.

We had this debate a couple weeks back here, and I came down on the relatively anti-Bledsoe side of things. I think he's highly overrated at all, but you still have to respect what he did for the franchise. I disagree with people who put Bledsoe in the top 10, but it's pretty easy to make a reasonable case for it.

That's what makes these lists so difficult: Just from the last decade, you can make a reasonable case for Brady, Brown, Faulk, Light, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel, McGinest, Law, Harrison and Vinatieri, with Moss and Welker finding their way into the argument if they put in a few more good years for us. If this thread has proven anything, it's that pretty much the only obvious choice is Brady at #1.

 

[mgteich]

I think the list is a good one. I don't understand those who would exclude Coates and Bledsoe.

With regard to Bledsoe, there is little question of his importance to the team in the 90's when he led the team. Bledsoe was drafted in 1993; Kraft bought the team in 1994; and we have never looked back to the days of empty seats and embarrassment.
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From wikipedia
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Bledsoe was drafted first overall in the 1993 draft by the New England Patriots. Bledsoe started for the Patriots in his rookie season, as the Patriots improved from two to five wins. On November 13, 1994 the Patriots had won just three of their first nine games, and were losing 20-3 to the Minnesota Vikings at half-time. Bledsoe led a comeback victory in which the Patriots won 26-20 in overtime, as he set single game records in pass completions (45) and attempts (70).[4] In remaining undefeated throughout the succeeding games, the Patriots earned their first postseason appearance in eight years.[5]. Bledsoe set an NFL record pass attempts (691), became the second NFL quarterback to complete 400 or more passes in a season (400), and led the NFL in passing yards (4555). [6]

During the 1996 season, the Patriots won the AFC championship against the Jacksonville Jaguars 20–6. This led to an appearance in Super Bowl XXXI, where they lost 35-21 against the Green Bay Packers, with Bledsoe completing 25 of 48 passes for 253 yards, two touchdowns, and four interceptions. During the 1997 season, Bledsoe helped the Patriots win five of their final seven games to once again qualify for the playoffs, the fourth time in eight years as a Patriots starter he would lead the team to a post-season run. The Patriots lost in the second round to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Bledsoe built a career-high 87.7 passer rating, passed for the second most yards in the NFL, and earned his third Pro Bowl invitation. The following year he became the first NFL quarterback to complete game-winning touchdown passes in the final 30 seconds of two consecutive games.[7] In so doing he propelled New England into the postseason for the third straight year. He completed these come-from-behind efforts while playing with a broken index finger on his throwing hand, an injury that would later sideline him for the postseason.
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