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NFL Live Says Pat's D Too Old

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by zippo59, Sep 28, 2006.

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  1. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    I don't agree. The only defensive players who can be considered "up there" are Rodney Harrison, Tedy Bruschi, and Junior Seau, none of which you can really say that their age is really showing through in their play. Harrison has not been his past self but that is most likely due to his injury, and there is reason to beleive his play will improve as his injury improves.

    Other than those three players, the rest of the defense is relatively young. Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Mike Wright, Rosevelt Colvin, Mike Vrabel, Tully Banta-Cain, Ellis Hobbs, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Artrell Hawkins, and James Sanders are all either in the prime of their careers or have yet to enter it. I agree the defense has not played particularly well but I don't think you can blame it on the players being old.
  2. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sometimes you have to wonder if they actually look things up before they spout it off to millions of people.
  3. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Yeah we're too old, that's it... we should have signed Law and McGinest.. that would have fixed it!:D
  4. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    The trouble with the Patriots defense is simply that they are not good

    enough. Junior Seau is not as good as Ted Johnson, and Ellis Hobbs

    and Asante Samuel are nowhere as good as Ty Law.
  5. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    The defense seemed to be pretty good last year without those two players.
  6. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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    On the whole this is wrong. Very young on the D-Line. Overall, we're still young in the secondary at corner and safety with Wilson, Hobbs and Samuel.

    I do have to say that the day is coming (soon) when a bit of an overhaul is gonna be needed at LB. Tedy (33), Seau (37), Vrabel (31). Colvin just turned 29 and seems like he's gonna be good for awhile. Outside of that the only youth we have his Woods, who's a developmental project and TBC.
  7. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    There aren't that old. They just need more team speed. Through the first three weeks of the season I have noticed how fast a lot of defenses are and then I look at the Pats D and they don't seem very fast at all.
  8. rabthepat

    rabthepat Rookie

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    We'll show them this week end in Cinci. We'll drop the Hammer on Carson and his cohorts. Right?
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Amazing that these guys get a paycheck on a regular basis, if they said it was too small, too slow it may have some merit... but too old makes no sense.
  10. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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    I agree. But I think sometimes team speed and youth are tied together. not always, but there is a correlation. I noticed your last point while watching Jax and Indy on NFL network last night. Jax has some real speed at their LB positions which is really the main place I think we lack speed.
  11. TNPatsFan

    TNPatsFan Rookie

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    Good point about team speed. I noticed the Broncos LB's seemed way faster than the Pats LB's. I really think the whole reason the Pats couldn't run on the Broncos was the Broncos LB's were just too fast for the Pats blockers. The Broncos D Line wasn't really the problem, from what I could tell. The Pats defense would do well to really try to improve their speed in the future.
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey
    I don't wonder that at all.

    I know they don't bother, it's obvious.
  13. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    Exactly...i saw the pitt defense harass palmer...i doubt we can do that just because we dont have the speed of pitt..
  14. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan Rookie

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    They followed that up and said that the Pats miss AV, likely. However, they cited the two blocked fg's, one of which did not seem to be completely on the kicker but rather had at least something to do with the blocking. Are you telling me that AV would have made that one? Let us also remember how horrible AV was the first few weeks of his rookie year.

    BTW, nothing on how Ghosts' kicks are reaching the endzone while AV's were lucky to get to the 10.
  15. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan Rookie

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    They were doing that with their linemen though. I think the Pats can exploit that. Go 4-3 and turn em loose!
  16. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Rookie

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    honestly, at this point, why is what the media says taken so seriously?

    they are constantly proven wrong all the time, so why even care what they say?

    it's like trusting the weather will be what the weather man says it will be.


    it should only be watched for casual amusement, IMO.
  17. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    The defenses that are "fast" often are good at getting pressure on the QB but not so good at stopping the run. Examples are Indy, Buffalo, and even Denver (they allowed a lot of rushing yards in their two games before us.)
  18. MrTibbs

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    I don't think it's the age I think it's the lack of talent at CB. If the DB's can't cover well it won't make the QB hold the ball a bit longer. As it is now the QB's just toss it up and the WR out jumps Hobbs and Samuels for the ball.
  19. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan Rookie

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    That is my fear for Sunday. The db's cover relatively decently but as soon as there is pressure, Palmer just lays it out there for his guys. I suspect we'll see a lot of nickel and cover 2 this weekend.
  20. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    I don't see how our DB's have somehow gotten worse from the end of last season and the playoffs where they were playing very well to now. In your minds, what has changed? The only difference is Harrison. He he playing so badly that the entire secondary is suffering?
  21. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Bingo. I thought the pass rush was much worse than the coverage this past game.

    Sure the have had a few tackling gaffs that led to beg plays. While it is mildly concerning, I am much more concerned about the fact that NE got minimal pressure against Buffalo and Denver. The Jet OL held NE at bay during their mini-run as well, considering the last play that Pennington was really under pressure was the Crotchery TD.
  22. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    This is why I'm not panicking. It's like what Mike Reiss said, if Tom Brady is your biggest problem then order your Superbowl tickets now. Similarly, if this front seven is your biggest defensive problem, with all the talent along the D-line and in the linebackers, then things are pretty good. This defensive line is just too good to not start being absolutely dominant eventually. And we all know what Tedy B, Colvin, and Vrabel can do, as well as Seau as a role player. It is like last year where the defense couldn't really get pressure through the first half of the season, but once Tedy B returned and the front seven gelled as a unit, boom, sack city. Additionally, once the front seven started playin great, the secondary started playing better too. The biggest help for a secondary is a good pass rush.

    Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, add to that Green, Seau, Wright......how can you not be lovin that?
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
  23. Hawg 73

    Hawg 73 Rookie

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    This is the youngest Pat's team that BB has ever had!
  24. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    I think the defense is just not fast enough and lacks playmakers. They are stout up front and the bug guys are the best, but behind them I honestly think they need more speed. I beleive this is the reason for alck of turnovers this season and last season. They are always a second late blitzing to the qb. I think vrabel has slowed down just a little bit and would be best suited for inside.

    You look at Dallas and they have Demarcus Ware and San Diego has Shawn Merriman, Chicago has Urlacher. The PAts have a bunch of solid players in the linebacker and secondary but they don't have any difference makers. They have been always a split second late.

    The one thing you have to wonder that Rod Smith mentionned is that the Pats have changed their scheme slightly. Are the Pats just uncomfortable now and will get use to it.

    But I truly beleive they need a little more speed in the secondary and definitely linebacker behind that awesome d-line.
  25. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    I don't know what could be responsible for Vrabel's slow down, if it is true. He is not very old nor has he suffered any significant injury that we know of.

    I think Rosevelt Colvin and Tully Banta-Cain would fall under the category of speed-rushing linebackers that mentions.

    I guess I just don't understand how a defense that was overall effective at the end of one year could be ineffective at the beginning of the next, especially considering minimal change, and the little change that did occurr seems to be mostly positive. Seau is better than Beisel, and now there is Harrison as well as Hawkins. I'd say the only loss that does not seem to have a clear replacement in McGuinest, but he was no spring chicken. Also it stands to be seen if Banta-Cain might take on more of his duties.
  26. Mosi Moose

    Mosi Moose Rookie

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    just did the math--our starting defense is 28.36 yrs old. Yeah--that's ancient. Find me a team that's younger and better. These guys are idiots. What if this "old" defense beats CIN on Sunday? What will they say then?
  27. MrTibbs

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    No it's not Harrison......Samules(Suspect) and Hobbs(average) haven't been the answers since starting. When Law went down way back do you remember all the passing yards they were giving up? Yeah they made a play or two but teams were passing like crazy against that secondary. Now go to last season in which Samuels got abused on a regular basis. Only 10 picks in total on the year as a team. In so many words the secondary hasn't been good in a LONG TIME.
  28. MrBigglesWorth

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    The age thing is pretty stupid, because the youth is concentrated in the d-line and secondary. The linebackers are the ones who are up in age.

    Look at when Ted Washington was here, he clearly had an impact on the "age average".

    So the age thing means nothing. Look how fast denvers linebacking core was. The pats had difficulty getting around the edge while tatum got around the edge several times. If the pats get at least one very fast good linebacker, maybe two, but at least one and a faster cornerback they'll be in good shape.

    I think Asante is not gonna be here next year. He clearly is the one getting picked on which means people are staying away from hobbs just a little more.
  29. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    fast or footwork?

    seems to me ourboys have been clydesdales for a while. but they get to the ball, make the play. IMHO its because they never seemed to take a wrong step, very little wasted motion.
    i dont know if BB would find a player like jboss bailey to be at all attractive in a draft. BB seems to want big beefy LBs who can take on OGs and TEs. those DLs are fast, tho. don't understimate.
  30. brady et al fan

    brady et al fan Rookie

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    The problem is, Bruschi and Harrison, who you acknowledge to be old, were the heart and soul of our last 2 super bowl teams. I've made the same observation as these network dummies. These guys look old and slow. Maybe they are not all old but as a unit, esp. the linebackers and the backfield, they have looked very slow.

    Watch SD, Jax, Denver, Cincy. These guys look a lot more like the 2004 Pats than we do do.

    I'm still holding out hope that Rodney finds his legs and becomes the intimidator again but my bigger concern is that Tedy's best days are past him. And for the Pats to go anywhere this year they need these 2 guys to be their studs.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
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