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NFL announces deal with Walsh; Goodell meeting set for May 13


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Are you TomASSe trying to make your own actions credible or are you part of the legions of the jealous out there that only dream of one iota of the success we enjoy as Patriot fans and followers.

I assume Tomasse knows how to spell fanatic, but, then again, maybe not.

There's too much bandwidth being wasted on this Walsh garbage.
 
Your entire post is as much hogwash and imagination as I have ever read. Please come back when you are able to post one shred of evidence s opposed to rumor and speculation.

You claim as common knowledge things such as how the Patriots "compartmentalize" their inner goings on so as to enable them to pass lie detector tests - are you kidding me? Is this a script for your movie about a mans mind gone wild - yours?

Are you TomASSe trying to make your own actions credible or are you part of the legions of the jealous out there that only dream of one iota of the success we enjoy as Patriot fans and followers.

That part's a fact that's been widely reported. Why they do it is just conjecture, but it's also a fact that if someone were trying to cheat they would certainly limit the participants to as few as possible (unless they're morons, which no one is accusing BB of being).

Care to actually respond to some of the substantive points I raised in my initial post rather than just sling mud back at me? I notice no one has responded to the thought that perhaps a lie detector test might end up being involved here. I don't claim to know whether Walsh will pass or not (as noted above, even I still think that there's a 70% chance or so that he's got nothing here), but I'd be curious what folks here think on that.

Some of the other posts above are somewhat comical about how all the rest of us are just jealous haters of you and all your glory--haven't really had much glory have you, the last few years? How do you count this past season, for ex.? Don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that ring, no? With arrogance like that and you wonder why fans from other teams generally can't stand you.

Speaking of the SB, can someone here link me to Bob Kraft's congratulations to the Maras and Tisch's--maybe I missed it, but I don't recall ever seeing it. I'd think that someone with such class would have publicly congratulated them--as noted, maybe he did and I missed it. Just curious. As a Bills fan, I know all about congratulating the winner after losing a SB--and our owner always did it with class.
 
That part's a fact that's been widely reported. Why they do it is just conjecture, but it's also a fact that if someone were trying to cheat they would certainly limit the participants to as few as possible (unless they're morons, which no one is accusing BB of being).

Care to actually respond to some of the substantive points I raised in my initial post rather than just sling mud back at me? I notice no one has responded to the thought that perhaps a lie detector test might end up being involved here. I don't claim to know whether Walsh will pass or not (as noted above, even I still think that there's a 70% chance or so that he's got nothing here), but I'd be curious what folks here think on that.

Some of the other posts above are somewhat comical about how all the rest of us are just jealous haters of you and all your glory--haven't really had much glory have you, the last few years? How do you count this past season, for ex.? Don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that ring, no? With arrogance like that and you wonder why fans from other teams generally can't stand you.

Speaking of the SB, can someone here link me to Bob Kraft's congratulations to the Maras and Tisch's--maybe I missed it, but I don't recall ever seeing it. I'd think that someone with such class would have publicly congratulated them--as noted, maybe he did and I missed it. Just curious. As a Bills fan, I know all about congratulating the winner after losing a SB--and our owner always did it with class.

Which is it here, are you a Pats fan as you said in your OP... "Nope--not me, just a Pats fan who has decided to take off the homer glasses,"

or: "As a Bills fan, I know all about.... " ???

As for Kraft.....Does this work for you??

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/sports/football/05patriots.html

" The Patriots may be great again next season, but until Sunday, this season had the special air of inevitability, complete with the breaks and luck that perfection requires. Tedy Bruschi reached up to shake Tom Coughlin’s hand during the postgame news conferences, and the Patriots’ owner, Robert K. Kraft, went onto the field to congratulate the Mara and Tisch families who own the Giants"

Now..in closing.....If you are a Bil fan, please accept my sincere condolences for all your near misses. I cannot imagine having to endure all of that pain. Hell, just look in this group and see how much it hurts many fans Ev en though we have three shiny rings to fall back on.

I really wish you would troll elsewhere, thank you very much.
 
That part's a fact that's been widely reported. Why they do it is just conjecture, but it's also a fact that if someone were trying to cheat they would certainly limit the participants to as few as possible (unless they're morons, which no one is accusing BB of being).

Care to actually respond to some of the substantive points I raised in my initial post rather than just sling mud back at me? I notice no one has responded to the thought that perhaps a lie detector test might end up being involved here. I don't claim to know whether Walsh will pass or not (as noted above, even I still think that there's a 70% chance or so that he's got nothing here), but I'd be curious what folks here think on that.

Some of the other posts above are somewhat comical about how all the rest of us are just jealous haters of you and all your glory--haven't really had much glory have you, the last few years? How do you count this past season, for ex.? Don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that ring, no? With arrogance like that and you wonder why fans from other teams generally can't stand you.

Speaking of the SB, can someone here link me to Bob Kraft's congratulations to the Maras and Tisch's--maybe I missed it, but I don't recall ever seeing it. I'd think that someone with such class would have publicly congratulated them--as noted, maybe he did and I missed it. Just curious. As a Bills fan, I know all about congratulating the winner after losing a SB--and our owner always did it with class.

Bollocks. Why should we answer you...shmessy and I have each posted valid questions that you ran away from, claiming "taking the high ground." You act like you are trying to show everyone how wrong we are, but then when one of us brings up a valid point, you get into your whole "Woe is me, the posters are attacking me" garbage. If you want links of where you said I was "attacking" you, I will gladly provide it.

Plus, I am not speaking for everybody, but *I* do not care what other fans think of our fanbase. It is what it is. Jets fans are arrogant, and they never win crap. It's everyone, not just Pats fans.

And yes, Robert Kraft did congradulate the Mara's and Tisch's. You didn't learn how to use Google at the "Law School that begins with H and ends with D"?
 
Fanetic is a long standing troll fantasizing about Goodell punishing the Pats. You almost want to pity him in his envy having been a fan of the 4 time chokers the Bills.
He is unable to comprehend that the Pats fans don't give a crap what he or the brainwashed people in the rest of the country think.
 
Nope--not me, just a Pats fan who has decided to take off the homer glasses, I suspect. I agree with some of what he says--I think you're all kidding yourselves about the likely consequences if (and it's admittedly a big if) Walsh has that tape. Personally, I'd put the odds of that at about 30% or so, but that's just a guess obviously. It's still a very large possibility that he just let his mouth overload his butt in Jan., but the phrasing of his initial statement to the press implying things other than what was known then (i.e, the defensive signals taping) is intriguing. No one on this board seems to want to even consider the fact that not only does Walsh produce the tape, but that the Pats may in fact have been responsible for doing this. It is a possibility, how high I don't know either and neither does anyone else here.

Interesting question for all of you and, once again, solely a hypothetical--what if (a) Walsh produces the tape, (b) says that the Pats ordered him to film it and other bad acts (i.e., he was the designated video scumbag in the Dept. to do the team's dirty work and that's why no one else knew about this among the other folks interviewed--after all, the Pats are notorious for compartmentalizing knowledge within their org, which you must admit is exactly what you'd do if you were going to be cheating, that way very few people would know about it) and (c) passes a lie detector test on all this. The last part is where I could see this going if he does indeed have the tape as a way to break any "he said, he said" stalemate.

An even worse (d) that no one else here seems to consider, but is certainly possible, would be if he has evidence of other bad acts (like the use of those two funny extra frequencies the team seemed to have on its headsets when they were caught last fall--anyone else remember that?). The shenanigans don't have to end at the Rams tape, you know, as there's been plenty of other smoke around the Pats on these issues as you'll recall certainly from the fall, when guys like Rod Marinelli and another HC whose name escapes me (Gruden perhaps?) both said that their headsets often mysteriously went out at key times (usually 3rd downs) when playing at Gillette. Peter King at the combine this year said something similar, ie., that other coaches and players in the League thought that there was too much smoke around the Pats for there not to be fire.

My personal favorite came from February, when I saw two different board threads elsewhere on different boards where folks each said they heard Dan LeBatard (Miami Dolphins beat reporter) on the radio say that he had it from an ex-Pats QB that there used to be a mysterious voice on their internal QB line who would periodically come in at the last second with a new play and that that play ALWAYS WORKED. This QB asked several times who that was, but never got an answer. According to one of the threads, the ex-QB was Flutie, who then several days later incurred Dan's wrath by not being willing to go on the record with the story he'd told him just a few days earlier. Note that I didn't hear this myself, but merely read it on a board, so it could be BS, but as noted above, I saw it on two different boards by two folks who each claimed to hear it--did they, don't know for sure, but if that is legit, that's quite another piece to the puzzle.

As noted in another thread, anyone wonder why the Pats haven't been more forceful with the Herald or more generally on this? For ex., taking more than two weeks to come out with a carefully worded statement denying all this in Feb? (The same carefully worded statement (the NE Patriots did not do this--not this did not happen) they repeated this week.)

Finally, for all the hate for Tomasse, anyone here consider (a) the guy was just doing his job (perhaps poorly, but still) and (b) it's not up to him ultimately to publish a story, but his editor, who must determine how credible the story is all things considered. The editor is really the guy you may want to crucify here. If Tomasse turns out to be right here, how many of the Tomasse haters will man up and apologize to him--not many I suspect.....

PS Bonus musing--someone here or elsewhere on this board told me that I'd be defending all this if it were the Bills accused of this. Depends on the evidence, obviously, but if it's pretty clear my team cheated (as yours did last fall, of which there's no doubt), I would be ashamed of my team and not condone them for it as many here seem to do. Cheating's cheating, full, end, stop. I try to retain some objectivity in all this--it is just a game played by millionaires, as my father is fond of saying, after all. Nothing worth lowering my moral standards for. I would be saddened, no doubt, but I wouldn't try to blame the rest of the world for problems my team caused itself by taking the actions it did. Then again, with Ralph Wilson in charge and with folks involved in our team like Marv Levy and **** Jauron (one of your local boys) I don't really worry too much about cheating in Buffalo actually--not spending money for players and moving to Toronto, perhaps, but not cheating.

First of all, you introduced yourself as "Bills fan here..." when you first joined the board (Post #2), so, you better get your story straight.

Second, there are a few valid points in there, but, in general, it looks like you need to find something else to spend your time on. That's way too obsessed.
 
Also, does anyone think there is a slight chance that Walsh will deny saying anything to anybody. I think it was reported that he refused to say anything into a tape recorder. I don't really think this will happen but it would be funny to see some of these so-called reporters squirm.

I do hold some hope that this is the case. No one really knows where his loyalties are until May 13. Mortensen reported about 3 weeks ago that it was his sense that Falsh was very reluctant about this whole thing because of his personal ties to both the team and the state. He could just feel that he's caught in such a cross fire that he needs heavy legal protection to make any statements due to the fact both sides can paint him as a liar and a cheat if they so wish.

The only thing that keeps me from fully going in that direction is that he's had his opportunities to quietly fall back into the shadows but he hasn't. Now you can bet your life savings he's got the devil in the form of DC politician sitting on one shoulder telling him he's screwed if he doesn't deilver. Don't ever lose sight of the fact that Comcast is the money play here and they could be squeezing Falsh as well.

I have a tough time believing that Anal Sphincter and Comscam would allow it to get to this point if they had any suspicion he would just claim ignorance when the time came for the money shot.
 
Once again, you are right on the money and if it turns out that you are a troll I will be royally ripped (sorry, but 20 posts make me suspicious and I apologize for suggesting this if, as I hope, I am wrong).

No apologies necessary comes with the territory. No I am not I have been on the sidelines watching this hoping for the best for a long time. It was when I saw how the press was mis-stating the Goofdell statement about possible additional punishment as a factual event that's when I got so peed off that I had to start venting.

The only point where I would disagree with you is that I believe that Kraft will play a major role in the upcoming decisions regarding the sunsetting of the CBA. He and Jonathan basically saved the Agreement last time. Therefore, he will have a bit more clout than you assume with Goodell. It is, however, also a fair argument that he used up that Goodwill in September when Belichick wasn't suspended, the embarassing tapes were destroyed and the Jets game wasn't forfeited, as many in the media were loudly demanding.

One can only hope that somehow it's not Goofdell that BK has to work with. I am convinced that with Goofdell leading the charges on the CBA we'll probably see the NFL go the way of the NBA and start giving all these guys 15 year fully guaranteed deals and the competition will go into the crapper. :(
 
Fanetic
I see you have finally suceeded in getting a few converts to your way of thinking. Rest assured they are in the minority. Perhaps they will follow you in rooting for another team too. I can assure you that the rest of us won't miss them.

Are you 14? Seriously?

There are about 10,000 different ways this thing could play out. There are more sub-plots here than most Grisham novels. Just because not everyone thinks as you do that Matt Falsh is going to the slammer for 40 years of rock bustin' for something as pedestrian as taping a convo with his boss, doesn't mean they should be assulted for disagreeing with you.

You seem to have this vision of BK painting his face with war paint and leading his charges through the battleground slaughtering all foes in the name of revenge for Bill. Don't get me wrong I like the visuals, I believe BK to be extremely loyal to Bill, but in the end BK wears a suit and tie and concerns himself with dollars. There are scenarios where BK will have no options but to tuck his tail and behave subserviant to the money game regardless of what you or I think he should do.

Do I think it's going to go down that way? I'm more and more inclined to believe so every hour. Did you see the poster that said Times Square was already misquoting the AP story and reporting that Goofdell is going to further punish us? That's why I think we may be headed there.
 
Goodell did Kraft no favors in his punishment which was much heavier than penalties levied on the 49ers and Broncos for rules violations and has certainly done them no good since. I think the Kraft will be joining the Big Market teams to blow up the CBA rather helping the piece of crap commissioner make peace. I don't see Goodell surviving the train crash resulting and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.:rocker:
 
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Care to actually respond to some of the substantive points I raised in my initial post rather than just sling mud back at me? I notice no one has responded to the thought that perhaps a lie detector test might end up being involved here. I don't claim to know whether Walsh will pass or not (as noted above, even I still think that there's a 70% chance or so that he's got nothing here), but I'd be curious what folks here think on that.

A lie detector test is a very interesting possibility and not something I considered. With this not being a matter of courtroom admissability, this could be huge for us!

Perhaps that's how it all comes to a huge crash. Falsh claims he taped the walkthrough and gave the tape to Bill. As you can tell I am convinced that's the card he will be playing on the 13th.

Goofdell requests a lie detector. Falsh balks and this whole thing ends. Falsh agrees and fails this whole thing ends. Falsh takes it an passes- that's something that would be tough to overcome from a pr perspective but it still wouldn't provide what I feel is the required level of proof necessary to further punish us.
 
Goodell did Kraft no favors in his punishment which was much heavier than penalties levied on the 49ers and Broncos for rules violations and has certainly done them no good since. I think the Kraft will be joining the Big Market teams to blow up the CBA rather helping the piece of crap commissioner make peace. I don't see Goodell surviving the train crash resulting and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.:rocker:

i think you've read the CBA situation pretty accurately. after the way the franchise he built has been treated, i can't see Kraft going out of his way to save the CBA this time. The Pats will come out winners, while teams like Indy and San Diego will be big losers. Awwww. I feel so bad for them.

As for the pat's punishment, severity is in the eye of the beholder. I thought the first round pick and $500k for BB was stiff. Others wanted him suspended for various periods of time and a forfeit of the Jets game.
 
i think you've read the CBA situation pretty accurately. after the way the franchise he built has been treated, i can't see Kraft going out of his way to save the CBA this time. The Pats will come out winners, while teams like Indy and San Diego will be big losers. Awwww. I feel so bad for them.

As for the pat's punishment, severity is in the eye of the beholder. I thought the first round pick and $500k for BB was stiff. Others wanted him suspended for various periods of time and a forfeit of the Jets game.

I would have accepted a one or two game suspention just to shut everyone up. But I doubt people would have let it go, so whatever.
 
T Brady
I have no delusions about Kraft leading a charge to save Belichick but unlike you I don't see Kraft capitulating to Goodell because of public opinion outside New England. The Pats fan base is Krafts concern especially with his investment in Patriot Place and if it appears that Kraft is abandoning them to appease Goodell, I don't see that benefitting him.

As for Goodell, I don't see him surviving the blowing up of the CBA and with Kraft as a leader of the big market teams, I see a lot of bad things happening to the small market teams that will really give them something to complain about. LOL:rocker:
 
A lie detector test is a very interesting possibility and not something I considered. With this not being a matter of courtroom admissability, this could be huge for us!

Perhaps that's how it all comes to a huge crash. Falsh claims he taped the walkthrough and gave the tape to Bill. As you can tell I am convinced that's the card he will be playing on the 13th.

Goofdell requests a lie detector. Falsh balks and this whole thing ends. Falsh agrees and fails this whole thing ends. Falsh takes it an passes- that's something that would be tough to overcome from a pr perspective but it still wouldn't provide what I feel is the required level of proof necessary to further punish us.

Thanks for both answering my initial question and sticking up for me a bit in your prior post (the questions I pose on this topic as a non-Pats fan are far from popular here I've noticed, and can understand). I came here to discuss this matter because I find it interesting and who better to disuss this with than Pats fans. Call it trolling if they want, but I hope they notice that I don't say with certainty what will happen here--I don't know, nor do they, what the truth is on all this or how it will play out. I have my views on what the likelihood of certain things is based on the information at hand, but am not saying (like some here are in the other direction I've noticed) that "the Pats are definitely guilty, guilty, guilty here". It's just as likely that Walsh is a whack job with an axe to grind whose mouth overloaded his rear in an effort to see his name in lights and hurt the team that hurt him. That's all a very real possibility, but so is his having been the "dirty jobs" man for them coming home to roost. That's why I think that the lie detector point may turn out to be a potential way to resolve (or try to resolve) the nearly inevitable "he said, he said." We'll have to see.

On the Kraft point above--my apologies if I offended, but it was an honest question, as I had not seen that, nor did I see the usual televised concession speech, because I don't think Fox aired one for whatever reason. Of course, that doesn't mean Mr. Kraft didn't offer his congratulations, as your link pointed out (but also as I myself noted in my initial question).

Don't mean to rain on folks' parades here even more, but according to an interview with Goodell on ESPN radio here in NY tonight that I myself heard on the way out to dinner Walsh's lawyers have told him they have new information that he'll be interested in. What that is he didn't go into (for whatever reason, including he didn't know details about it most likely). I suspect this may get picked up in tomorrow's papers, but we'll see.
 
I'm familiar with those threads and arguments. I note that you say "might not need" to show damages. It's unlikely that the Pats would prevail on some sort of a claim of vicious malice without demonstrable damages because of their public profile. Courts tend to think that such organizations are "fair game" unless they suffer material, financial harm.

I say "might not need" b/c, of course, IANAL. That said, I used the wrong term. What I'm arguing is that what the Herald Hack wrote constitutes defamation per se, a form of defamation for which no actual damages need to be demonstrated.
 
FWIW, you want to know my guess re: his story?

As an employee circa 2001, he was involved in the production of tapes that season.

After all, he never specifically claimed that he made a walkthrough tape, just that he had information "damaging" to the NFL and the Pats.
 
I don't know why there are over 300 posts debating something that has not changed since Matt Walsh's name came up so conveniently during SB weekend.

I have already stated more than once that nothing will come of this. There is no mystery tape, no secret that hasn't been told nor any revelation that will be uncovered. So how can anyone think otherwise? UNBELIEVEABLE!!! It's amazing how "Gossippy" some football fans can be!

Just like when the incredibly STUPID story about Randy Moss & the lady's pinky came out, fans here flocked to post their wild, unsubstantiated theories. I told everyone here several times that Randy did nothing wrong & nothing will come of it. So all-together now, tell me what happened?

NOTHING! That's what happened.

And the same thing will happen here. "If" there was anything to this, it would have come out...that's a fact. No one could have kept anything big under wraps this long and surely not the "I want my fame" guy Matt Walsh.

If anyone is seriously worried about this, you need your head examined thoroughly. Videogate is over...finit...done...time to move on.:rolleyes:

Thankfully the opinions of the other 31 teams fans have no relevance in this issue. Roger Goodell and the NFL need not satisfy their curiosity or their questions. I mean just look at some fans like the "Fanetic" who are consumed with this issue. They are wearing their hatred on their sleaves and Patsfans should just bask in it. After all, it is the ultimate compliment!

I know there are the .001% of Patsfans who are actually worried about this, so when it's over, you'll all say,

"hey, that PatriotsReign guy was right!" and don't forget it!;)
 
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NOTHING! That's what happened.

To be fair, though, a lot of us thought nothing would come of the original JEST incident, either. :(

Seriously, though, I keep coming back to a few simple points:

(1) If the tape exists, why haven't we seen it yet?
(2) Everything Goodell has learned so far points to the non-existence of the tape.
(3) While the Patriots have not necessarily been forthcoming about what has happened, at no point has anyone currently associated with the team clearly said something that was patently and demonstrably false. Given that Goodell apparently told Belichick that the penalty for lying to him would be a year's suspension plus further sanctions, why on earth would he lie to Goodell about this?
(4) Belichick and Pioli know--more than we do--precisely what shenanigans led to Walsh's firing. If they are acting the way they are simply because they think he can't back up any allegations he might have, rather than because they know he can't possibly have the things some people claim he has (because they don't exist), then they have to be so #%@#ing stupid that they deserve any punishment that might come their way. For some reason, though, Belichick just doesn't strike me as that kind of stupid.
 
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