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NFL announces deal with Walsh; Goodell meeting set for May 13


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I also believe that Walsh will say he taped the Rams and is now trying to get his timeline for doing so down. He needs to answer how he arrived/left the stadium, what equipment he used, where did he tape from, who he spoke to, etc. This is where I have little confidence in Goodell. Hopefully I will be wrong.

They already caught him in that lie if he sticks to the story he told his acquaintances and the local mediots. The original tale was the stayed behind undetected one, only when Goodell spoke to his co workers one had an alternate recollection of leaving the stadium WITH Matt. And then there is the little matter of Jimmy Dees and the rest of his staff vouching for the team having instructed the video crew not to bring battery packs to the stadium for the camera pre positioning (which is what they did during our walkthrough). Goodell already established that there was no power source for video cameras absent a battery pack on Saturday - they didn't power up those positions until Sunday.

Again, this is why he has to substantiate his allegations, the Commissioner has already found that absent a tape they have no substance.
 
He can say what he likes but as proven liar and thief, he had better have proof. I don't think Kraft is going to let Goodell do anything more without a fight.
 
I wonder if anyone else here feels, as I do, that if Tagliabue was still commissioner "spygate" never would have happened.
 
I wonder if anyone else here feels, as I do, that if Tagliabue was still commissioner "spygate" never would have happened.

Without a doubt. Nothing would have ever even come out...he would have just issued some press release that Sunday night on NBC like "The league has investigated this matter and no cheating occured".

It wouldn't have gotten a 3 day buildup like it did. Tagliabue would have nipped it in the bud very quickly.
 
It would not surprise me if this "meeting" was postponed. And of course, rescheduled for say, around training camp time. Just to keep things alive.

Also, does anyone think there is a slight chance that Walsh will deny saying anything to anybody. I think it was reported that he refused to say anything into a tape recorder. I don't really think this will happen but it would be funny to see some of these so-called reporters squirm.
 
It would not surprise me if this "meeting" was postponed. And of course, rescheduled for say, around training camp time. Just to keep things alive.

Also, does anyone think there is a slight chance that Walsh will deny saying anything to anybody. I think it was reported that he refused to say anything into a tape recorder. I don't really think this will happen but it would be funny to see some of these so-called reporters squirm.


If that is the case, I think Espn might even give up... ok maybee not
 
Walsh clearly does not have the large pockets necessary for anything other than making his life miserable.

Essentially, the only practical targets of a lawsuit regarding this would be the Herald and possibly E*PN; if you do a search here for "libel", you'll find the threads on which we discussed that issue (at least with respect to the Herald). Also, if you search for "actual malice," you'll see that the Patriots might not need to show actual damages.

I'm familiar with those threads and arguments. I note that you say "might not need" to show damages. It's unlikely that the Pats would prevail on some sort of a claim of vicious malice without demonstrable damages because of their public profile. Courts tend to think that such organizations are "fair game" unless they suffer material, financial harm.

BTW, it's tough for me to seem to be defending the dark side as i am appalled at what has been done against the team I have loved for so many years. Personally, I feel that the Patriots organization itself has done a p!$$-poor job of getting its case in front of the public.
 
You nailed it- all of it.

Anyone who thinks that there will be any amount of giving the Patriots the benefit of the doubt is wrong. Instead they will be crucified at even the Falsh mention of a Rams taping let alone the damnation that will take place if he can produce a tape. It's pie in the sky to think that the letter of the agreement will be honored in that event- it won't be, it won't be possible because the public backlash won't allow it. Goodell would have no options but to cut Bill's head off on live TV for the viewing audience or else his league would take such a beating it would take years to recover. You can't very well have the entire world believe the commissioner of the sport is taking the side of a cheater which is what would be the perception.

This has tragedy written all over it- all Falsh has to do is claim that he was asked to tape the Rams walkthrough and we are dead. All we can do is hope he's not the complete sleazeball we all think he is and he says he has nothing more than what is already known.

I scoff at the notion that the state would prosecute him, there's not a chance in hell that will happen without an individual with direct connection- i.e. Pioli, Kraft, or Bill- bringing the charges and the chances of that happening are about as good as Mike Vick matching Tom's td total this year. Talk about your pr nightmares we would be run out of the league on a rail.

You're a new poster and so I hope you are not a troll in Falsh clothing :). But, on the facts, you are right.
 
He can say what he likes but as proven liar and thief, he had better have proof. I don't think Kraft is going to let Goodell do anything more without a fight.


You're speaking as though you think the playing field is level and a good commissioner is in charge. Wrong on both accounts.

We've already been convicted in the eyes of the public. There's no way for the Pats to reverse the damage already done. Even if Falsh tells Goodell he never taped anything and let his rat ***** mouth run loose and he's sorry, the public will scream that it's a cover up. Everybody except NEP fans has already decided that Goodell destroyed the original tapes to protect the Pats. It doesn't matter to the public that he's a liar and a thief all they want is to see the dynasty torn down and they could care less who is behind it.

You yourself have indicated you believe Goodell to have alterior motives. If that's the case, do you think Goodell really cares that Walsh lied on his resume and tried to kill his roomates girlfriend?

What you are saying doesn't make sense other than what the contract says- which I'm not comfortable provides enough protection. It clearly allows for a he said - he said situation and give Goofdell's butchery of this situation that just means more bs.
 
You're talking about the NFL, you're talking about the Super Bowl, you're talking about the world- literally. It would be suicide and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Kraft and Goodell locked arms and walked into the DA's office and told them to stand down if it were to get to the level you describe.

In the end, we can all love Bill all we want and we can all be upset and demand the team and the league remain loyal to him for his dutiful service of 30 years- but it won't matter- it will be about what it is always about, MONEY.

If it gets to a certain point, Kraft and Goodell will have to buddy up to save their empire. Bill is not bigger than this league- he is to us, but not to the institution known as the NFL.

The NFL cannot have it's revenue base continuing to believe that the league endorses cheating, and that's what matters more than anything. Goodell and even BK will do whatever is necessary to placate the public.

If Falsh has a tape, I see a public lynching by the end of the day. If he has no tape but contends Bill asked him to do it, then it will be a matter of how intense the public outrage is. If there's not a massive wave of demands for Bill to be fired then maybe he survives. However if it goes as I suspect and this is where Bill's his own worst enemy, Goodell will have to take Bill out to satisfy the enormity of the NFL fanbase.

I doubt there's very many cases where the state has brought charges against someone for taking a company handbook when they were dismissed without the company pressing charges. That's exactly the situation here and regardless of how much we want to believe this would be the first case, it won't.

Once again, you are right on the money and if it turns out that you are a troll I will be royally ripped (sorry, but 20 posts make me suspicious and I apologize for suggesting this if, as I hope, I am wrong).

The only point where I would disagree with you is that I believe that Kraft will play a major role in the upcoming decisions regarding the sunsetting of the CBA. He and Jonathan basically saved the Agreement last time. Therefore, he will have a bit more clout than you assume with Goodell. It is, however, also a fair argument that he used up that Goodwill in September when Belichick wasn't suspended, the embarassing tapes were destroyed and the Jets game wasn't forfeited, as many in the media were loudly demanding.
 
Again, this is why he has to substantiate his allegations, the Commissioner has already found that absent a tape they have no substance.

That's right 100%. No walkthrough tape, no hard evidence that the patriots did anything other than what they have already admitted, Spygate is finished. Oh, there will be another media firestorm and Walsh might even get a cheapo book out of it to be published just in time for the Season Opener, but objective observers will say it's over.

If there is a tape, there is nothing that the patriots can say or do that will fix the damage. It will, for all intents and purposes, come down to a matter of "which liar do you believe?" 95% outside of New England and this Board will think that the Patriots, already fined $750,000 and a draft pick for admittedly breaking the rules, are the "real liars." We loyalists will observe that Walsh is the more likely liar, but we won't be heard. The game will be over.
 
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I wonder if anyone else here feels, as I do, that if Tagliabue was still commissioner "spygate" never would have happened.

I agree 100%!

That's one of the things I have been trying to get to with the contention that Goofdell isn't so much aiming to take us down as he is just an utter idiot. As so many have pointed out and are right about, Goofdell trying to take us out is a financial mistake of enormous magnitude and while he's a chump he's not that stupid.

But I think he is so stupid that he'll blow this too. So if Falsh lies and claims he gave a tape to Bill, Goofdell will probably say something indicating that there was no tape produced but that Matt Falsh seemed very genuine in his belief that he did provide a tape. This is all TraShPN, TomFatAsse, etc... would need to further fuel this witch hunt.

But if it were Tags he would probably say something about Falsh presenting his case which lacked merit and was riddled with holes and for that reason he is closing the matter.
 
Sorry dude, but despite your name you sound a lot like the FootballFanetic. Hmmmm, 22 posts . . .

Nope--not me, just a Pats fan who has decided to take off the homer glasses, I suspect. I agree with some of what he says--I think you're all kidding yourselves about the likely consequences if (and it's admittedly a big if) Walsh has that tape. Personally, I'd put the odds of that at about 30% or so, but that's just a guess obviously. It's still a very large possibility that he just let his mouth overload his butt in Jan., but the phrasing of his initial statement to the press implying things other than what was known then (i.e, the defensive signals taping) is intriguing. No one on this board seems to want to even consider the fact that not only does Walsh produce the tape, but that the Pats may in fact have been responsible for doing this. It is a possibility, how high I don't know either and neither does anyone else here.

Interesting question for all of you and, once again, solely a hypothetical--what if (a) Walsh produces the tape, (b) says that the Pats ordered him to film it and other bad acts (i.e., he was the designated video scumbag in the Dept. to do the team's dirty work and that's why no one else knew about this among the other folks interviewed--after all, the Pats are notorious for compartmentalizing knowledge within their org, which you must admit is exactly what you'd do if you were going to be cheating, that way very few people would know about it) and (c) passes a lie detector test on all this. The last part is where I could see this going if he does indeed have the tape as a way to break any "he said, he said" stalemate.

An even worse (d) that no one else here seems to consider, but is certainly possible, would be if he has evidence of other bad acts (like the use of those two funny extra frequencies the team seemed to have on its headsets when they were caught last fall--anyone else remember that?). The shenanigans don't have to end at the Rams tape, you know, as there's been plenty of other smoke around the Pats on these issues as you'll recall certainly from the fall, when guys like Rod Marinelli and another HC whose name escapes me (Gruden perhaps?) both said that their headsets often mysteriously went out at key times (usually 3rd downs) when playing at Gillette. Peter King at the combine this year said something similar, ie., that other coaches and players in the League thought that there was too much smoke around the Pats for there not to be fire.

My personal favorite came from February, when I saw two different board threads elsewhere on different boards where folks each said they heard Dan LeBatard (Miami Dolphins beat reporter) on the radio say that he had it from an ex-Pats QB that there used to be a mysterious voice on their internal QB line who would periodically come in at the last second with a new play and that that play ALWAYS WORKED. This QB asked several times who that was, but never got an answer. According to one of the threads, the ex-QB was Flutie, who then several days later incurred Dan's wrath by not being willing to go on the record with the story he'd told him just a few days earlier. Note that I didn't hear this myself, but merely read it on a board, so it could be BS, but as noted above, I saw it on two different boards by two folks who each claimed to hear it--did they, don't know for sure, but if that is legit, that's quite another piece to the puzzle.

As noted in another thread, anyone wonder why the Pats haven't been more forceful with the Herald or more generally on this? For ex., taking more than two weeks to come out with a carefully worded statement denying all this in Feb? (The same carefully worded statement (the NE Patriots did not do this--not this did not happen) they repeated this week.)

Finally, for all the hate for Tomasse, anyone here consider (a) the guy was just doing his job (perhaps poorly, but still) and (b) it's not up to him ultimately to publish a story, but his editor, who must determine how credible the story is all things considered. The editor is really the guy you may want to crucify here. If Tomasse turns out to be right here, how many of the Tomasse haters will man up and apologize to him--not many I suspect.....

PS Bonus musing--someone here or elsewhere on this board told me that I'd be defending all this if it were the Bills accused of this. Depends on the evidence, obviously, but if it's pretty clear my team cheated (as yours did last fall, of which there's no doubt), I would be ashamed of my team and not condone them for it as many here seem to do. Cheating's cheating, full, end, stop. I try to retain some objectivity in all this--it is just a game played by millionaires, as my father is fond of saying, after all. Nothing worth lowering my moral standards for. I would be saddened, no doubt, but I wouldn't try to blame the rest of the world for problems my team caused itself by taking the actions it did. Then again, with Ralph Wilson in charge and with folks involved in our team like Marv Levy and **** Jauron (one of your local boys) I don't really worry too much about cheating in Buffalo actually--not spending money for players and moving to Toronto, perhaps, but not cheating.
 
To follow up my last post--it occurred to me as well that the lie detector part may not just be for the videotape. If Walsh says the Pats did other bad things and passes a lie detector test on that, that may be an interesting scenario as well. May may be a really interesting month after all......
 
I agree 100%!

That's one of the things I have been trying to get to with the contention that Goofdell isn't so much aiming to take us down as he is just an utter idiot. As so many have pointed out and are right about, Goofdell trying to take us out is a financial mistake of enormous magnitude and while he's a chump he's not that stupid.

But I think he is so stupid that he'll blow this too. So if Falsh lies and claims he gave a tape to Bill, Goofdell will probably say something indicating that there was no tape produced but that Matt Falsh seemed very genuine in his belief that he did provide a tape. This is all TraShPN, TomFatAsse, etc... would need to further fuel this witch hunt.

But if it were Tags he would probably say something about Falsh presenting his case which lacked merit and was riddled with holes and for that reason he is closing the matter.

I have no idea how Tagliabue would have handled this, but there is no doubt that he would have had more capital with his constituents, the owners, sponsors and TV networks, than did Goodell in his first year on the job.

For his part, Goodell has handled this like a Lawyer or Administrative Judge, trying to find a settlement that would make it go away while ignoring the undercurrents of hatred for the Patriots from other owners and their teams' fans. The strategy was working and the issue was effectively buried until Tomass, Spectral and Walsh entered the scene,

We all seem to forget that the Patriots have thoroughly embarrassed the coaches and managers of 25 or so of the other 31 Franchises by achieving consistent excellence--along with a Superstar QB on the field, the reincarnation of Vince Lombardi on the sidelines and a selfless team-first ethos that flew in the face of the contemporary NFL--in an era where teams were "expected" to be mediocre most of the time (the Colts, Steelers, Eagles and a few other teams were exceptions to this) and be content with making the Playoffs every few years and winning a Super Bowl ever 12 years or so. This resentmenent was a long time building, including among the media who trumpeted the Conventional Wisdom of the majority of other teams. Goodell was unable to address that aspect of things, which is what, IMO, blew this up in the first place.
 
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Hey, did you guys know that Jon Tomase is overweight? That seems to be an overlooked aspect in all of this.
 
Fanetic
I see you have finally suceeded in getting a few converts to your way of thinking. Rest assured they are in the minority. Perhaps they will follow you in rooting for another team too. I can assure you that the rest of us won't miss them.
 
Nope--not me, just a Pats fan who has decided to take off the homer glasses, I suspect. I agree with some of what he says--I think you're all kidding yourselves about the likely consequences if (and it's admittedly a big if) Walsh has that tape. Personally, I'd put the odds of that at about 30% or so, but that's just a guess obviously. It's still a very large possibility that he just let his mouth overload his butt in Jan., but the phrasing of his initial statement to the press implying things other than what was known then (i.e, the defensive signals taping) is intriguing. No one on this board seems to want to even consider the fact that not only does Walsh produce the tape, but that the Pats may in fact have been responsible for doing this. It is a possibility, how high I don't know either and neither does anyone else here.

Interesting question for all of you and, once again, solely a hypothetical--what if (a) Walsh produces the tape, (b) says that the Pats ordered him to film it and other bad acts (i.e., he was the designated video scumbag in the Dept. to do the team's dirty work and that's why no one else knew about this among the other folks interviewed--after all, the Pats are notorious for compartmentalizing knowledge within their org, which you must admit is exactly what you'd do if you were going to be cheating, that way very few people would know about it) and (c) passes a lie detector test on all this. The last part is where I could see this going if he does indeed have the tape as a way to break any "he said, he said" stalemate.

An even worse (d) that no one else here seems to consider, but is certainly possible, would be if he has evidence of other bad acts (like the use of those two funny extra frequencies the team seemed to have on its headsets when they were caught last fall--anyone else remember that?). The shenanigans don't have to end at the Rams tape, you know, as there's been plenty of other smoke around the Pats on these issues as you'll recall certainly from the fall, when guys like Rod Marinelli and another HC whose name escapes me (Gruden perhaps?) both said that their headsets often mysteriously went out at key times (usually 3rd downs) when playing at Gillette. Peter King at the combine this year said something similar, ie., that other coaches and players in the League thought that there was too much smoke around the Pats for there not to be fire.

My personal favorite came from February, when I saw two different board threads elsewhere on different boards where folks each said they heard Dan LeBatard (Miami Dolphins beat reporter) on the radio say that he had it from an ex-Pats QB that there used to be a mysterious voice on their internal QB line who would periodically come in at the last second with a new play and that that play ALWAYS WORKED. This QB asked several times who that was, but never got an answer. According to one of the threads, the ex-QB was Flutie, who then several days later incurred Dan's wrath by not being willing to go on the record with the story he'd told him just a few days earlier. Note that I didn't hear this myself, but merely read it on a board, so it could be BS, but as noted above, I saw it on two different boards by two folks who each claimed to hear it--did they, don't know for sure, but if that is legit, that's quite another piece to the puzzle.

As noted in another thread, anyone wonder why the Pats haven't been more forceful with the Herald or more generally on this? For ex., taking more than two weeks to come out with a carefully worded statement denying all this in Feb? (The same carefully worded statement (the NE Patriots did not do this--not this did not happen) they repeated this week.)

Finally, for all the hate for Tomasse, anyone here consider (a) the guy was just doing his job (perhaps poorly, but still) and (b) it's not up to him ultimately to publish a story, but his editor, who must determine how credible the story is all things considered. The editor is really the guy you may want to crucify here. If Tomasse turns out to be right here, how many of the Tomasse haters will man up and apologize to him--not many I suspect.....

PS Bonus musing--someone here or elsewhere on this board told me that I'd be defending all this if it were the Bills accused of this. Depends on the evidence, obviously, but if it's pretty clear my team cheated (as yours did last fall, of which there's no doubt), I would be ashamed of my team and not condone them for it as many here seem to do. Cheating's cheating, full, end, stop. I try to retain some objectivity in all this--it is just a game played by millionaires, as my father is fond of saying, after all. Nothing worth lowering my moral standards for. I would be saddened, no doubt, but I wouldn't try to blame the rest of the world for problems my team caused itself by taking the actions it did. Then again, with Ralph Wilson in charge and with folks involved in our team like Marv Levy and **** Jauron (one of your local boys) I don't really worry too much about cheating in Buffalo actually--not spending money for players and moving to Toronto, perhaps, but not cheating.

Your entire post is as much hogwash and imagination as I have ever read. Please come back when you are able to post one shred of evidence s opposed to rumor and speculation.

You claim as common knowledge things such as how the Patriots "compartmentalize" their inner goings on so as to enable them to pass lie detector tests - are you kidding me? Is this a script for your movie about a mans mind gone wild - yours?

Are you TomASSe trying to make your own actions credible or are you part of the legions of the jealous out there that only dream of one iota of the success we enjoy as Patriot fans and followers.
 
the thing about goodell is, everything he's done has been in the best interest of the nfl, including pacman, vick, and destroying evidence


the evidence in this case, he simply couldn't get destroyed because of the senator.

i'm still surprised the nfl didn't have walsh murdered before all of this.
 
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