NEW ARTICLE: MORSE: Is Belichick Taking Back his Team?

[RIpats88]

I cant understand you people.

If you believe your coach isn't up to it, you FIRE him.

Otherwise, having a coach undermined is a guaranteed 100% recipe for failure. Why are we even having this discussion?

He undermined himself. If he hired an actual OC we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But his arrogance said he could promote a DC and ST coach to implement a new offense and it would work despite everyone saying It wouldn't.

And now no one is allowed to question that decision? If this was ANY other coach they would've been fired for that decision.

But because it's bill "in bill we trust" even if he leads us into the gutter

 

[upstater1]

He undermined himself. If he hired an actual OC we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But his arrogance said he could promote a DC and ST coach to implement a new offense and it would work despite everyone saying It wouldn't.

And now no one is allowed to question that decision? If this was ANY other coach they would've been fired for that decision.

But because it's bill "in bill we trust" even if he leads us into the gutter

So fire him!

Otherwise, the team should not undermine the coach, no matter who it is

Why is this so hard for you?

 

[RIpats88]

So fire him!

Otherwise, the team should not undermine the coach, no matter who it is

Why is this so hard for you?

If he was anyone other than Bill Belichick then he would be fired. But Kraft is giving him another year to fix his mistakes.

So the team should accept the joke of an offense that was last year? We should accept every decision bill makes no matter how bad it is? We aren't allowed to question anything because "last 25 years"

Yet I'm told it's not about your past or what the player has given to the team. But their future performance.

 

[upstater1]

If he was anyone other than Bill Belichick then he would be fired. But Kraft is giving him another year to fix his mistakes.

So the team should accept the joke of an offense that was last year? We should accept every decision bill makes no matter how bad it is? We aren't allowed to question anything because "last 25 years"

Yet I'm told it's not about your past or what the player has given to the team. But their future performance.

I don't understand why this is repeatedly difficult for people to understand. A team with players undermining the coach wins nothing.

It's not that difficult.

If Kraft fires Belichick after this year, I guarantee you all the stuff against Bill on this board will turn in two years into heavy criticism of Kraft for getting rid of Bill. Just like in 2019, this board pronounced Brady done, too petulant, lost arm strength, not willing to give his receivers a chance, and sure enough, it all turned around a year later.

I really don't know why it's hard for people to understand that teams with internal strife don't win. It's the right thing to do for Belichick to clamp down on that. As Patriots fans, we should all want that because you can't win any other way.

 

[RIpats88]

I don't understand why this is repeatedly difficult for people to understand. A team with players undermining the coach wins nothing.

It's not that difficult.

If Kraft fires Belichick after this year, I guarantee you all the stuff against Bill on this board will turn in two years into heavy criticism of Kraft for getting rid of Bill. Just like in 2019, this board pronounced Brady done, too petulant, lost arm strength, not willing to give his receivers a chance, and sure enough, it all turned around a year later.

I really don't know why it's hard for people to understand that teams with internal strife don't win. It's the right thing to do for Belichick to clamp down on that. As Patriots fans, we should all want that because you can't win any other way.

All our point is that Bill created the internal strife himself. This isn't 2009 bill couldn't get the players to buy in. This was a 100% avoidable situation. If "taking back his team!" Means getting rid of anyone who questioned the Patricia/judge pairing. Sorry that's going after the wrong tree.

 

[PatsSince74]

Seems bizarre that w/ nothing substantive to discuss at this moment, Journo/rumor mill "reports" embed as "factual" basis for unverifiable guesswork.
We have no idea, f'rinstance, why Hoyer was traded - we have no idea what/how-much-if-any interpersonal dissension if any existed/exists among players (& other staff? lunchroom providers? steelworkers on the Lighthouse?).
Doubtless gripes, even blaming, may have circulated w/n the team; losing does that.
Nothing against Karen Guregian (a cut above some journo's), but I thought personally that her famous report was just a nicely-phrased hit piece, gauged to get attention, like any i.e. filled w/ essentially nothing verifiable.
I wonder if those commenting have experience running a team, or team-like civilian or military group.
Loose motivation & confused morale will go far to lower any probability of success among your personnel.
Strong leaders tend to run a tight ship; not everyone likes it, w/n or outside the organization (especially journo's digging for gossip).
BB, as much as criticized for years as "inflexible," tried something tactically for 1 season, basing his views (apparently?) on observed prior trust in overall abilities of subordinates.
It seems commendable to me that he has consistently assigned people out of their previous roles, to help them grow - thereby helping the team long-term, & certainly helping the individuals' resumes for their own careers.
Weak leaders rarely do that.
Guesswork should include, as it has, at what point (pretty early imho) that the OC experiment wasn't working, & that BOB would cure things - & that a BOB reintroduction would have to wait till BOB's commitment to Nick Saban concluded after the season.
For what it's worth, are we forgetting that the last 2 games of the season did show improvement on offense (Evan Lazar, that rare creature, a good & informative journo, among some others 2nded that)?
Wasn't it the baffling gaffes on ST returns for TD's that were the final doom?
If you really think thru what will prove to be the best influence on Mac & Zappe under the new influence of BOB, you would not want a negative-influence holdover (if that's actually what we could accuse Hoyer of having been).
Otherwise, w/ respect to Hoyer's decent career, he showed no capacity to use his wisdom & experience on the field in 2022; that's the 1st requirement for a QB who may well have to play, even 3rd on the depth chart.
Boy, do we ever need the DRAFT to arrive - or maybe a trade/acquisition a bit above in impact the new Ta-Da! QB McS.
Do we keep the faith?

 

[UrbanCowboy]

If "taking back his team" means he is going to be more hands-on, I'm all for it!

 

[mgteich]

If "taking back his team" means he is going to be more hands-on, I'm all for it!

Defense and ST only

 

[Pats1971]

I said before and it still rings true. Bill is the same as he was 20 years ago nothing changed. He still does the same things...its just the team is not winning because Brady is gone. If something works you are a genius, when it doesnt you are a heel. The patriot way, putting receivers at corner, drafting 7th round graded guys in the second, getting end of the trash heap receivers in FA for cheap, its all ok if you win and with Brady they won. The receivers last year were better than teams that have won superbowls around here, but people screamed we need top flight wideouts now. We didnt before because we won. I dont care if you are the most amazing coach ever if you dont have the right player, you dont win. That putting some lacross player at wideout **** was all fun and games when they won. Now it just looks bad. Bill didnt change, he didnt get worse, the Qb position did.

 

[n6249c]

… if you dont have the right player, you dont win.

agree that if you don’t have the right players you don’t win.

more than that, if your players don’t play as a TEAM you don’t win.

what makes them the right players is not their individual ability. It’s the ability they contribute to the team. Troy Brown was not a great CB but his contribution playing CB was essential to winning a Lombardi. That’s an example with nothing to do with QB. Hank Poteat is another. It’s players playing together as a team, being on the same page with each other and the coaches’ game plan.

 

[captain stone]

And so?

And so Bill himself, with unlimited power as both HC & GM, is really the one undermining this team's chances of success.

 

[1960Pats]

I suppose that it is great that fans believe this.
==============================
Kraft pays the salaries of the coaches.

If no fans wanted tickets, they would all be sold to corporations, businesses, and even to charities. The real money comes from TV and streaming contracts.

And sure, folks could stop watching free TV to spite the owners. The reality is that the NFL is one of the most watched products during the season, and most of the top-rated individual shows of all-time.
=========
The dance now is for the graceful exit of Belichick. I'm sure that Jonathan is all ears with regard to proposals.
=================
Hopefully, Belichick retires after this season or next at the latest.

Belichick won't break Shula's record while in New England.

I couldn't care less about Bill getting a record that was won on the backs of the players. The same goes for Shula and the best HC of them all, Vince Lombardi. Nobody in their right mind pays hundreds of dollars to see coaches coach or owners own. They pay to see the athletes.

I remember having a talk with someone back around 2000 and he said that some day teams wouldn't need any fans and that TV will make the teams profitable anyway. We're there now.

However, all the revenue comes from the same place, the consumers. We absolutely pay the freight, even if we don't go to games.

 

[1960Pats]

And so Bill himself, with unlimited power as both HC & GM, is really the one undermining this team's chances of success.

But why? That's the part that I don't understand. He's a great HC but his GM moves lately have been terrible.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Bill is still great as a Head Coach, but you cannot field a winning team without the players and the cupboard is bare thanks to Bill the GM. He needs to start delegating GM duties, and I think he has started with Groh. This FA season was pretty much a disaster; the Patriots better have a spectacular draft...

I suspect that Kraft stepped in at some point (a year after the disastrous 2019 draft?), and told Bill to get some professionals in for the draft and do less meddling (I suspect that the Harry selection was a BB special).

 

[Ollie]

So if your boss clearly had no idea what he/she was doing you would just mindlessly drone on without question doing things wrong/poorly?

No but there are many different ways to show that you don't think what is happening is correct and Mac looked petulant at times last year which is probably not the best way of voicing it

 

[1960Pats]

I don't understand why this is repeatedly difficult for people to understand. A team with players undermining the coach wins nothing.

It's not that difficult.

If Kraft fires Belichick after this year, I guarantee you all the stuff against Bill on this board will turn in two years into heavy criticism of Kraft for getting rid of Bill. Just like in 2019, this board pronounced Brady done, too petulant, lost arm strength, not willing to give his receivers a chance, and sure enough, it all turned around a year later.

I really don't know why it's hard for people to understand that teams with internal strife don't win. It's the right thing to do for Belichick to clamp down on that. As Patriots fans, we should all want that because you can't win any other way.

That's all conjecture on your part.

The real truth is that a team without any top players wins nothing, strife or no strife. And recently Bill seems to want to get rid of the best players even if he doesn't get anything in return.

The 2007 Giants nearly had a riot early in the season but the players, led by Michael Strahan, had a sit down with Coughlin and got him to change his tyrannical ways. That led to 2 SB wins against Bill. Maybe that kind of soul searching is needed here more than fans giving Bill constant reach arounds even when he makes mistakes.

 

[RIpats88]

That's all conjecture on your part.

The real truth is that a team without any top players wins nothing, strife or no strife. And recently Bill seems to want to get rid of the best players even if he doesn't get anything in return.

The 2007 Giants nearly had a riot early in the season but the players, led by Michael Strahan, had a sit down with Coughlin and got him to change his tyrannical ways. That led to 2 SB wins against Bill. Maybe that kind of soul searching is needed here more than fans giving Bill constant reach arounds even when he makes mistakes.

Its just funny because the whole premise of the article is "bill is taking his team back!" as if Bill having full autonomy to make poor decisions like try and trade Gronk for no reason and yet have no contingency plan for when he leaves., let brady walk but have no contingency plan for when he leaves, overrule his scouts and draft Harry, let McDaniels walk with no contingency plan, hire Patricia/Judge because "anyone can coach offense" is a good thing.

 

[Triumph]

BB has been taking back his team since 2019.

When he got rid of Brady. He won. Its way worse than running off Bernie Kosar in Cleveland because Brady went out and won a freekin Super Bowl.

Then, Bill Beleichick HAD NO plan for 2020 Pats QB. Stidham I guess was going to take over, but that clearly blew up on the launch pad. So, in the 11th hour you go and find Cam Newton who has to learn a very difficult offense and with no talent around him. After Edelman goes down youre basically screwed on offensive playmakers worst than in 2019 with the GOAT. WTF, did BB expect with Meyers, Byrd, Harry, Izzo, Keene, Assisi. The run game has been the only shining light offensively. Cam could have easily broke Steve Grogans rush TDs if they let him.

Its been the same crap 3 years running. Great defense and running game, but a pitiful bottom of the barrel offense.

If things do not get better this season then there is nobody else to blame but Bill Belichick.

 

[Salsalife]

The report estimates the Patriots to win just 7.6 games, which most would say seems pretty accurate given their current roster and the opponents they face. Are we on the Titanic?

 

[p8ryts]

The report estimates the Patriots to win just 7.6 games, which most would say seems pretty accurate given their current roster and the opponents they face. Are we on the Titanic?

I don't believe so, but if we are, I'm happy to still have BB on the bridge.